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old school dirt VS Sugar (hardpacked) opinions

old school dirt VS Sugar (hardpacked) opinions

Old 10-02-2014, 08:46 AM
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Default old school dirt VS Sugar (hardpacked) opinions

What is better for MAJOR RACERS Sugar (or hardpacked) or Old school dirt? I Know this debate has been brought before, but I am going to ask people differently. please read the following before you post and answer the following question with a simple YES or NO in your post. I am interested in why people like one or the other.

Pros or sugar (or hardpacked) track
-consistency in surface
-low maintenance for faster program.
- Very high speed
- less crashing and closer racing

Cons of sugar (or hardpacked)track
- high tire wear
- Consistency in surface can be a con
- narrow racing line

Pros for Old school dirt
- throw some roost!
- developing lines
- Setup can become very important

Cons for old school dirt
- inconsistency in surface
- slower speeds
- typically slower program due to water and maintenance.


1. Do you wish RC racing was more mainstream? with spectator and possible TV?
2. If you attended a race like the worlds would you be bummed if you were in one of the rain heats which were drastically slower? This has nothing to do with running in the rain itself. It's just an example of having a drastically slower track than your competitors.
3. do you go to a major race for fun or to be competitive? think about this and please be honest.
4. which of the following videos is more fun to watch for you?
5. of the 2 videos which is more appealing to a NON rc driver?
6. which do you think is better for MAJOR RACES? Old school dirt or Sugar (hardpacked)?

Dont need to watch it all obviously.
2013 nitro challenge (not suger but hardpacked)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-nucqW75gA

2011 Silver State Nitro Challenge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxZ8YK4AkZ8

Last edited by Manufacturercup; 10-02-2014 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:00 AM
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1. yes
2. yeah probably
3. a little bit of both. Fun to be at a large event but also is nice to be fast aswell
4.2013 DNC
5.probably 2011 silver state

I prefer a loose track with developing lines. I kinda like tying to keep up with the track.
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:59 AM
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1. Do you wish RC racing was more mainstream? with spectator and possible TV?

No - this will ruin the hobby as we all know it. With TV comes FCC rules and Regulations. Something that is not now apart of the Hobby. I would like to see products geared at growing the hobby. I would like to see Local Hobby Shops supporting the hobby together and not trying to separate races to gain business. It only thins out the hobby and cause people to leave the grown man drama alone.

2. If you attended a race like the worlds would you be bummed if you were in one of the rain heats which were drastically slower?

IMO - It sucks, but Mother Nature is part of racing. This is where LUCK comes in. Races will be 22 days if we start postponing crap. If you want it completely fare, have it indoors - that would suck too.....


3. do you go to a major race for fun or to be competitive? think about this and please be honest.

Both. I spend alot of hard earned money on this hobby and I spend enough time wrenching to get another real job. Or course I like to have fun, thats the reason why I do it. But a BIG race is for competition, to see how you stack up against National level comp.


4. which of the following videos is more fun to watch for you? Nitro Challange hands down. Silver State was just hard to watch for me. The track was in real bad shape. IMO its just unsafe. At any racing level and class, they will repair parts of the track that was deemed unsafe. Im all for a rough track, but when the track becomes to rough that controlling the car becomes an issue, I think thats where i will draw the line


5. of the 2 videos which is more appealing to a NON rc driver?

I have played these videos at work several times, because people ask me what I do. The Nitro Challenge appeals to more people. Its not chaotic racing. They can follow whats going on, everything is clearer.

6. which do you think is better for MAJOR RACES?

Old school dirt or Sugar (hardpacked)? I dont care as long as I dont have to use a new set of $70 tires per heat....
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:10 AM
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Thank you for this comment! the above post sums this debate up for me. both Sugar(hardpacked) and Old school dirt have their advantages but you have to accept their disadvantages as well.

Originally Posted by token View Post
2. If you attended a race like the worlds would you be bummed if you were in one of the rain heats which were drastically slower?

IMO - It sucks, but Mother Nature is part of racing. This is where LUCK comes in. Races will be 22 days if we start postponing crap. If you want it completely fare, have it indoors - that would suck too.....
My point for this question was not really about the rain. if was more about changing track conditions. With a old school dirt track, with the development of ruts and holes, the difference between the first heat and the last heat could be as drastic as what we saw at the worlds with the rain .

Originally Posted by token View Post
4. which of the following videos is more fun to watch for you? Nitro Challange hands down. Silver State was just hard to watch for me. The track was in real bad shape. IMO its just unsafe. At any racing level and class, they will repair parts of the track that was deemed unsafe. Im all for a rough track, but when the track becomes to rough that controlling the car becomes an issue, I think thats where i will draw the line
i agree, but if they make repairs to the track, then the races following those repairs would have a faster track and a big advantage over the drivers in the heats prior to the repairs. Similar to the rain at the worlds but no as quickly developing. In my opinion the most fair way to run an event with that type of dirt is to just let the track go in practice and through the event. Like they did there but what you see in that video is the result.

Last edited by Manufacturercup; 10-02-2014 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:42 AM
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1. Do you wish RC racing was more mainstream? with spectator and possible TV?

I doubt this is possible. Live RC coverage is great but unless you are into RC theres no reason to watch.

2. If you attended a race like the worlds would you be bummed if you were in one of the rain heats which were drastically slower?

I have driven in heats where you have no idea whos car is whos as they are all mud color. I have seen heats where there was so much water on the track the cars were throwing huge rooster tails down the straight, cover the electronics and let them run. Some choose not to drive their heat, personally I come to race if the race director says the heat is on and its my heat then its my time to drive.


3. do you go to a major race for fun or to be competitive? think about this and please be honest.

Above all I have a great time at the track. I have a general rule that if I am not having fun (win or loose) then its time to go home. So far I have only come close to going home 1 time, my buddies lended me a hand and all was good again. I do like the competition, thats what makes it interesting and I always shoot for 1 main higher when I go to DNC.

4. which of the following videos is more fun to watch for you?

DNC 2013 IMO

5. of the 2 videos which is more appealing to a NON rc driver?

DNC 2013 - The Silverstate race looked very hectic due to the overly bumpy track.

6. which do you think is better for MAJOR RACES? Old school dirt or Sugar (hardpacked)?

I personally dont like sugar tracks, just my opinion. Tire wear is horrible, chassis and equipment matches tire wear, etc.

Tracks like Amain Hobbies, The Fear Farm AZ, Thunder Alley CA, CVR CA dont sugar the hell out of the track - theres pleanty of traction and tire wear is normal. A general rule of thumb - when slicks work better than tread theres too much dam sugar on the track.
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Old 10-02-2014, 12:03 PM
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How about a surface like ours....a moist tacky clay that you can run slicks but has near zero tire wear.....
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Old 10-02-2014, 12:30 PM
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1. Do you wish RC racing was more mainstream? with spectator and possible TV?
Yes, I think there are a lot of gamers that would come to RC if they knew how competitive it was.

2. If you attended a race like the worlds would you be bummed if you were in one of the rain heats which were drastically slower?
No, facing mother nature is part of racing.

3. do you go to a major race for fun or to be competitive? think about this and please be honest.
I've never gone to one but guys who say they aren't competitive are kidding themselves.

4. which of the following videos is more fun to watch for you?

Silver State

5. of the 2 videos which is more appealing to a NON rc driver?
Silver State

6. which do you think is better for MAJOR RACES? Old school dirt or Sugar (hardpacked)?
Old School Dirt everytime.
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Old 10-02-2014, 12:49 PM
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Question 2 is about the change is track conditions that affected the laps times not about running in rain or mud. for example people that got a dry heat had drastically faster times than better drivers that got wet heats.

Originally Posted by Silo View Post
1. Do you wish RC racing was more mainstream? with spectator and possible TV?
Yes, I think there are a lot of gamers that would come to RC if they knew how competitive it was.

2. If you attended a race like the worlds would you be bummed if you were in one of the rain heats which were drastically slower?
No, facing mother nature is part of racing.

3. do you go to a major race for fun or to be competitive? think about this and please be honest.
I've never gone to one but guys who say they aren't competitive are kidding themselves.

4. which of the following videos is more fun to watch for you?

Silver State

5. of the 2 videos which is more appealing to a NON rc driver?
Silver State

6. which do you think is better for MAJOR RACES? Old school dirt or Sugar (hardpacked)?
Old School Dirt everytime.

would you answer these questions the same if your paycheck and putting food on the table was depending on your results?
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Old 10-02-2014, 12:53 PM
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Frank- I realize that tracks liek Nitro Challenge and Thunder alley don't use sugar but people wouldn't call them "real off-road" either. And they do wear tires pretty hard.
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Old 10-02-2014, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Manufacturercup View Post
Question 2 is about the change is track conditions that affected the laps times not about running in rain or mud. for example people that got a dry heat had drastically faster times than better drivers that got wet heats.




would you answer these questions the same if your paycheck and putting food on the table was depending on your results?
I don't like the way qualifying is done to begin with. But as a racer you can't complain about what you can't control.
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Old 10-02-2014, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Manufacturercup View Post
Frank- I realize that tracks liek Nitro Challenge and Thunder alley don't use sugar but people wouldn't call them "real off-road" either. And they do wear tires pretty hard.
WOW you lost me with that one. Not "real off road" it's bot 1984 style but what is it that you mean?

For reference. If this isn't off road idk what is

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


+ YouTube Video
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+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Old 10-02-2014, 01:33 PM
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If I go to a track that Slicks are the best tire I pack up my stuff and go home. I can race on road in a Parking lot 2 minutes from my house.
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Old 10-02-2014, 01:36 PM
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1. Do you wish RC racing was more mainstream? with spectator and possible TV?

I like how it is now, just enough coverage and more and more rc channels on youtube etc.. A dedicated RC channel on TV would be interesting though.

2. If you attended a race like the worlds would you be bummed if you were in one of the rain heats which were drastically slower?

It's part of the race, it can't happen all the time to the same drivers.


3. do you go to a major race for fun or to be competitive? think about this and please be honest.

It's fun to be competitive and you can be competitive while having fun. There is no fun part and another competitive part IMO

4. which of the following videos is more fun to watch for you?

DNC because it's smoother, buggies just bounce too much all over the place in that silver state race

5. of the 2 videos which is more appealing to a NON rc driver?

same answer

6. which do you think is better for MAJOR RACES? Old school dirt or Sugar (hardpacked)?

old school dirt, without a doubt.. but for a big event it's probably harder to maintain
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Old 10-02-2014, 01:45 PM
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FrankL-
When i hear people say "bring back real offroad" I believe they are talking about throwing roost with bumps and ruts like back in the day, and people running year old step pins because they don't wear at all.

I love the tracks you listed, but I think most people would call Thunder alley and nitro challenge a well manicured track with very little ruts and holes. I have also been to Nitro challenge many times and i know that its not perfectly smooth and does develop some ruts.
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Old 10-02-2014, 01:50 PM
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So just pile up some dirt in a few spots for jumps and lay out pipes and call it good?
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