Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro Off-Road
Ceramic coating a nitro motor??? >

Ceramic coating a nitro motor???

Ceramic coating a nitro motor???

Reply

Old 07-08-2013, 03:44 PM
  #16  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
Imbue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fairhope, AL
Posts: 460
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
True, but a worn out P/S set has the ideal tolerance to add a DLC layer on the piston. It is even possible to measure and calculate the needed thickness of the layer.
You're right about the used engines and coatings. I guess I was speaking more on an OEM level.
Imbue is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 06:57 PM
  #17  
Tech Adept
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 175
Default

When you said DLC I thought you meant dry lubricant coating which is what I have planned. It is basically a micro lubricant coating that adheres to the piston. I can do another coating which is like anodizing but has a hardness like a diamond. I think this is what you are referring too.

What I had in mind was to break the motor in and use the dry lubricant on the skirts. Then use thermal coating on the piston top. I have no intention of messing with bre itself since the skirt coating basically emeds itself into both when it is used. It cuts friction down considerably and increases longevity. I also should not have to worry about dimensions too much. I will give it a try but I need someone that has more expierence with the motors then I do to tell if it has any real advantages except longevity. I would venture to say maybe a 5% increase in power and a smoother power band.
zandrew is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 07:03 PM
  #18  
Tech Master
iTrader: (47)
 
toyoter91's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,352
Trader Rating: 47 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by zandrew View Post
When you said DLC I thought you meant dry lubricant coating which is what I have planned. It is basically a micro lubricant coating that adheres to the piston. I can do another coating which is like anodizing but has a hardness like a diamond. I think this is what you are referring too.

What I had in mind was to break the motor in and use the dry lubricant on the skirts. Then use thermal coating on the piston top. I have no intention of messing with bre itself since the skirt coating basically emeds itself into both when it is used. It cuts friction down considerably and increases longevity. I also should not have to worry about dimensions too much. I will give it a try but I need someone that has more expierence with the motors then I do to tell if it has any real advantages except longevity. I would venture to say maybe a 5% increase in power and a smoother power band.
micro lubricant coating?

What is it actually called? I am pretty well versed in most of the coatings and treatments that are used in full sized race engines and I am having a hard time figuring out what one you are mentioning.
toyoter91 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 07:33 PM
  #19  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
BlueStreakOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Posts: 479
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I would suggest you talk to Brian at buku performance products (buku power.com). He has some great products and has done some experiments along the same line as but different from what you are considering. He would be an excellent person to collaborate with.
BlueStreakOne is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 08:04 PM
  #20  
Tech Adept
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 175
Default

Dry film lubricant. If you look at pistons for turbo motors it is what is used on the skirts. I have access to the same stuff VW and Audi uses on their turbo pistons and it is amazing the difference it makes. It is also used on bearings by manufactures like calico. For the top of the piston I want to use thermal barrier coating. It is what you see on the tops of pistons for turbo motors and also used on the exhaust ports, combustion chambers, valave heads, etc.
zandrew is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 12:24 AM
  #21  
Tech Master
iTrader: (47)
 
toyoter91's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,352
Trader Rating: 47 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by zandrew View Post
Dry film lubricant. If you look at pistons for turbo motors it is what is used on the skirts. I have access to the same stuff VW and Audi uses on their turbo pistons and it is amazing the difference it makes. It is also used on bearings by manufactures like calico. For the top of the piston I want to use thermal barrier coating. It is what you see on the tops of pistons for turbo motors and also used on the exhaust ports, combustion chambers, valave heads, etc.
So you are talking about Teflon / moly coatings? VW and Audi are far from the only car manufactures using Teflon / moly type coatings on their piston skirts turbo engine or not.

Regardless, pistons in full size engines have skirts that are designed around having that coating on there. They also use MUCH MUCH larger piston to wall clearances because they use the rings to seal and not the piston to wall clearance like in our engines.

Personally, I wouldn't do anything to these engines that changes the size of the piston, even in the smallest amount.
toyoter91 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 10:17 AM
  #22  
Tech Adept
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 175
Default

Originally Posted by toyoter91 View Post
So you are talking about Teflon / moly coatings? VW and Audi are far from the only car manufactures using Teflon / moly type coatings on their piston skirts turbo engine or not.

Regardless, pistons in full size engines have skirts that are designed around having that coating on there. They also use MUCH MUCH larger piston to wall clearances because they use the rings to seal and not the piston to wall clearance like in our engines.

Personally, I wouldn't do anything to these engines that changes the size of the piston, even in the smallest amount.
You don't understand how the coating works. Its does not change the dimensions of the material in the way you are thinking. When you use the coating it is designed to soak in the pores of material and effectively gets removed down to the effective size once it used. If you have a piston that is .2000" diameter and the coating is .0002" thick it would essentially make the piston the .2004". However once it is used it embeds itself and becomes a .2000" piston. We would not be able to use it on bearings if it changed to dimensions even by just the faintess amount.

Before you install the piston or bearings you wipe them with a scotch bright pad to a glaze. I have bought a cheap Toki .12 motor to use it on. I am trying to figure out if I want to do it on new parts or after they are broke in.
zandrew is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 10:20 AM
  #23  
Tech Master
iTrader: (27)
 
STUBYSLAP31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,163
Trader Rating: 27 (97%+)
Default

Originally Posted by zandrew View Post
I was looking for a sub forum that dealt specifically with Nitro motors but did not find it.



just leaving this here
STUBYSLAP31 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 11:40 AM
  #24  
Tech Adept
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 175
Default

Originally Posted by STUBYSLAP31 View Post


just leaving this here
That info is back on page 1. I would have expected the mod to have moved the thread but that has not happened. I don't think its necessary to start another thread since this one can be moved.
zandrew is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 11:49 AM
  #25  
Tech Fanatic
 
tom1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: la maddalena italy
Posts: 790
Default

use c60 for engine
http://www.automodel.net/index.php/t...ene-curiosita/
use google traductor
tom1974 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 12:00 PM
  #26  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (53)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Belleville, MI
Posts: 4,517
Trader Rating: 53 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by zandrew View Post
You don't understand how the coating works. Its does not change the dimensions of the material in the way you are thinking. When you use the coating it is designed to soak in the pores of material and effectively gets removed down to the effective size once it used. If you have a piston that is .2000" diameter and the coating is .0002" thick it would essentially make the piston the .2004". However once it is used it embeds itself and becomes a .2000" piston. We would not be able to use it on bearings if it changed to dimensions even by just the faintess amount.

Before you install the piston or bearings you wipe them with a scotch bright pad to a glaze. I have bought a cheap Toki .12 motor to use it on. I am trying to figure out if I want to do it on new parts or after they are broke in.
Is this coating similar to type III hardcoat with 50% "build up" and 50% surface penetration?
nv529 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 06:48 PM
  #27  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (25)
 
Tbrown96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 291
Trader Rating: 25 (100%+)
Default

We would use this coating on pistons for our 410 c.i. Sprint car motors. When we would take the motors down for rebuild there was Definately a difference between coated pistons and motors that had non coated pistons but with that said the motors are completely different from rc cars. I would be willing to try, i could see it helping longevity.
Tbrown96 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2013, 01:23 PM
  #28  
Tech Adept
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 175
Default

No its simply for lubrication and to protect against dry startups. It reduces friction thus allowing the piston to run cooler and cutting down significantly on wear. You can build up it up if need be though but that is multiple layers.

Tbrown if you have a used motor you would like it tried on I would be willing to do it for you for free just for the review. I am extremely new to these nitro motors but from other expierence with the coating process I think it would help out the motors significantly.
zandrew is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2013, 02:29 PM
  #29  
Tech Master
iTrader: (20)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Quinby south Carolina
Posts: 1,285
Trader Rating: 20 (100%+)
Default

I have a few top of the line engines I'd be willing to let someone try this out on. Let me know it anyone wants to do it and ill test it.
Matt Piva is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2013, 06:52 PM
  #30  
Tech Adept
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 175
Default

I'm ready to test it. I just need the head and piston and thats it. I would prefer to use it on something that is well used to be honest.
zandrew is offline  
Reply With Quote

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Terms of Service