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Durango DNX408 - Fast enough to win the World Title.

Durango DNX408 - Fast enough to win the World Title.

Old 02-21-2013, 02:01 PM
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Hey guys, On the Team Durango site under the how to sections so to speak, there is one on the 2mm mod. My question is if I remove the 2mm mod, will I have to turn the inner lower suspension mount inserts down 180 degrees to "stock" position. I didnt do the mod, I bought the car with the mod already done to it and want to try the car without the mod. I ask because, I already undid the mod, but I forgot pay any attention to the inserts before I put it back together after taking out the 2mm plates I have. It seemed to all fit back together nice and snug.. so should I just leave it how it is, or go back and flip down the inserts?
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:20 PM
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You'll need to flip the inserts in the RF holder, they need to be rotated 180 degrees and switched left to right. Without doing this, you'd probably have about 5* anti-squat... that would be a LOT of anti-squat.
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by AMorgan
You'll need to flip the inserts in the RF holder, they need to be rotated 180 degrees and switched left to right. Without doing this, you'd probably have about 5* anti-squat... that would be a LOT of anti-squat.
Thanks for the response buddy. What if I kept it with 5*? I will be running on pretty loose, somewhat unkept outdoor tracks. Would I get increased stability in a straight line?, less prone to bottoming out right? What are the negatives with a lot of anti squat? I want the car to be very stable and predictable with good traction in the rear. I will be running the +2mm wheel hubs in the rear. Would it raise my rear roll center with that much anti squat?
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by sn47som1
Thanks for the response buddy. What if I kept it with 5*? I will be running on pretty loose, somewhat unkept outdoor tracks. Would I get increased stability in a straight line?, less prone to bottoming out right? What are the negatives with a lot of anti squat? I want the car to be very stable and predictable with good traction in the rear. I will be running the +2mm wheel hubs in the rear. Would it raise my rear roll center with that much anti squat?
+1 I'd like to know this also
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by sn47som1
Hey guys, On the Team Durango site under the how to sections so to speak, there is one on the 2mm mod. My question is if I remove the 2mm mod, will I have to turn the inner lower suspension mount inserts down 180 degrees to "stock" position. I didnt do the mod, I bought the car with the mod already done to it and want to try the car without the mod. I ask because, I already undid the mod, but I forgot pay any attention to the inserts before I put it back together after taking out the 2mm plates I have. It seemed to all fit back together nice and snug.. so should I just leave it how it is, or go back and flip down the inserts?
Well if you want to really feel what the true change was then you need to put the inserts back to stock. The 2mm mod raises the roll center. If you remove the 2mm shims , you lower the roll center, but the anti-squat is going to be at a way different angle.

Set everything back to stock. If you want to see what change more anti-squat makes, run the car with the kit setting, then change the anti-squat and see how of feels.

Making more than one change at a time is for guys that are really really good at car setup.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:32 PM
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Great response, but can anyone chime in regarding experience with a lot of anti squat? I've read about it but never messed with it. How is it really in the field so to speak in regards to running a lot or just a little? I will be running in the Spring so I am trying to get a good base set up before I hit the track. How will a lot of antisquat effect jumping and stability?
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sn47som1
Great response, but can anyone chime in regarding experience with a lot of anti squat? I've read about it but never messed with it. How is it really in the field so to speak in regards to running a lot or just a little? I will be running in the Spring so I am trying to get a good base set up before I hit the track. How will a lot of antisquat effect jumping and stability?
Well, it is kind of one of those things. Any adjustment has an effect range, where the change that it provides is not overwhelmed by how it effects something else. Here is an example. Front toe settings effect how aggressive the steering is at corner entry. A little bit of toe in and the entry steering is mellow. A bit of toe out will make the car much more aggressive going in. That being said, the normal range of adjustment for toe is between at most 2 degrees in or out. Go further than that (in or out) and the car becomes undrivable. With more than a couple degrees of toe out, the turn in will be very aggressive (which you may want), but the car will be impossible to drive in a straight line. Conversely, too much toe in will make the car track very well in a straight line, but it would make the car push so bad going into turns that the car would again become undriveable.

That being said, that much anti-squat may be out of the effective range of the adjustment. Normally, more anti-squat causes more rear traction on throttle, because instead of the weight transfer being absorbed by the suspension (squating), it is transfered to the tires instead. More anti-squat will cause the car to square up on throttle. Running too much will have a negative effect on how the car jumps and lands, as well as how the car squares up out of the corner too much, and pushes really wide the second you touch the throttle.

Look at it like this. Car setup is a complex thing, where many adjustments work in conjunction with one another to make the car drive the way you want. If you have one thing way out of range, or a couple things just a bit too much (still within normal range) in one direction, the car will be undriveable.

The real issue is that with the advent of the internet and this forum, you can get all sorts of adjustment ideas. But the problem is you never get the whole story, or know what kind of person you are getting advice from. I have been racing R/C cars for 20+ years, I keep my cars in perfect conditions, and test one change at a time back to back on the same track conditions. You can trust that when I say something does this or that, that it is as close to scientificly tested that it does. Even still you may find that my results are not the same for you, just because the track conditions where you race will be different. The guy saying "oh I changed from 35wt to 37.5wt shock oil and gained a second a lap" never mentions the fact that his shocks were missing 1/8 their oil before the switch, and that the track had a full race day on it after the oil change and now had a clean line around the track.

What you need to do is start with the kit setup (the ENTIRE kit setup), or find a setup for similar conditions for where you run (again the entire setup, look for a setup that lists the same tires as where you run). Then get the car on the track for some shakedown runs to make sure everything is in working order. Once the car is mechanically sound, start making note of how the car is doing what you don't like with regards to how the car is handling (want more steering here, land better off this jump, ect). Then make one change at a time. Do research to figure out what change does what. Google "RC setup guide", and start reading. Keep notes in a note book about how your car feels, how the track conditions are changing, how your car feels, what setup change you made, and how the car felt afterwards. Then you have a quick reference when you want to make changes.

All of this really only rings true if you are good enough to run an entire tank without crashing. Making adjustments to make your car easier to drive faster only helps if you are not leaving 30 seconds on the track in crashes. If your driving is still at the point where you still crash a bunch, the only thing you need to worry about is the right tires, and making sure your car is 100% mechanically perfect. All of this setup advice only holds true if you are running the right tires. All the setup changes in the world will not fix being on the wrong tires.

There is no coincidence that the fast guys are really fast. It takes some time and effort to have a car that runs very well on track. Multiple practice days, putting in laps when nobody else is at the track, trying new adjustments. All while keeping the car mechanically perfect. True it is a lot of work, but totally worth it when you decimate and embarrass the competition.

Last edited by ifuonlyknew; 02-22-2013 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:45 AM
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Also, making a bunch of changes at the same time, or making changes away from the track without testing back to back, will only lead to a car that is inconsistent. Again, run the car, make a change, run the car again to see how the change had an effect.
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:53 AM
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All great information, I'm actually pretty familiar with most of the suspension set up and change process and different geometry and the like, but its just the anti squat I was a little in the dark about. So does having more of it increase ride height? If so, maybe i'll lower my rear ride height to compensate a little for the rear anti squat being so drastic? oh wait I think I answered my own question... anti squat is separate to the suspensions arms and mounts, the chassis would stay the same static height correct?
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:58 AM
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And yes, in any element tires are by far the most important part of the equation. That's what I am trying to get right. I've been hearing great things about the Sweep Square Armors.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:26 PM
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Good RUN at the DNC!! GO DURANGO
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:40 PM
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'durango' didnt do to bad 2nd in short course, 2nd in e buggy, qually 2nd in truggy and dunno bout buggy but i no lutz had it tough in qually
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:56 PM
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Hey guys, has anyone done the mod for the steering arm with loctite? How well does it work? Is it just as easy to put bearings in there? I heard there is a little modification needed for the bearings to be installed?
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 1evo RRR Driver
Good RUN at the DNC!! GO DURANGO
And how did the car you run do?
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:03 PM
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Way to go Carson bumping up ! Solid Run !
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