pitpop

don't be so hard on yourself

IanWright

iTrader: (1)

Associated = D Plates, plastics.

Xray = Diff bearings.

Hotbodies = Driveshafts

Losi 2.0 = Shock Towers


All the cars upon release throw up issues. I take the view and judge by how the company deals with those issues, and this is in anything, any industry. My example is computers, i run a LOT of tech and software... if i want to sit on the cutting edge and use or play with new stuff i accept there is a risk you take in complications. If i need something to work because i have money riding on a time scale do not try something new and i do not update until i know the bugs and can fix them myself or a fix comes through.

This is in fact the case in ANY industry, and we are all playing in an industry ecosystem here.

Here's the only thing i can see will make an impact on cars coming out with issues... chassis manufacturers testing with club racers before release. Run some closed and private racing with them, see what breaks. Pro's can pick a car apart peformance and develop them, club guys will crash them, beat them up and so on.
Of course a program to develop a chassis like that would add anything from 3 months to a year on a chassis, before in the field full on racing development begins.

In my case, i have run the RC8 since it came out knowing i was in for the ride. Associated have backed it up superbly all the way, going from frustration to just being outright impressed with durability and performance. 8 months ago i had trouble recommending it to anyone that wasn't mechanically minded and prepared for a maintenence above the norm... now any new racer i can recommend it to. That's a companies first car in 1/8th.

My point there is not to be an AE fanboy, but that a company has a vested interest in developing a car an ironing out is problems, the MP9 is still brand new. My experience is the Kyosho team are very approachable, helpful. If i wasn't so heavily invested in my RC8 and looking for a car i wouldn't be dissuaded by internet sensationalism. This happens with every car. Anyone thinking about the Kyosho i would suggest watching the car at the track, read the specific MP9 thread on this forum through and see what people are doing with the car and what the actual problems are and what the solutions are, as well as what the team guys are doing. Pro's are just that, generally approachable, knowledgable and into helping people with their products... talk to them, talk to the club guys running them and remember a new car is pretty much Public Beta for at least 6 months.

Allumina

iTrader: (27)

There is a distinct difference between testing the 0-60 on a road car, and testing the 0-60 time in an OFFROAD remote control car. Part of the reason the magzine tests are a joke [atleast in my opinion] is that this is dirt, and its ALWAYS different. As a 1:1 sprintcar driver, I can tell you the enormous difference in traction between a freshly prepped track, to a cured [mudpacked; ready to race] track, to a dryslick ["washed out" in r/c terms] track all of which can occur in an hour if the conditions are right.

Don't get me wrong, I love the mag's as much as the next guy, and buy every issue, every month and enjoy reading the testing articles etc, i'm just saying as a rule of thumb, there are a huge number of variables in testing an offroad vehicles rate of acceleration [regardless of scale], which makes the data gained from the test hold little water or relevance in my opinion.

Allumina

iTrader: (27)

Plus, and I could be wrong about this one, don't they test a different damn motor in every car? I know for a fact when they tested the Xray 808 when it came out they had an RB C6 BB in it, and thats the only times I recall them testing with a mostermash C6

Allumina

iTrader: (27)

Ok pulled a few old issues, here's just a couple examples:

XRC Car mag - December 2008

Hot Bodies D8
engine: Trinity Extech EB mods race prep .21
Track conditions: slightly packed dirt
Temp/humidity: 85f 45%

XRC Car mag - September 2008

GS Racing CL-1 Advanced
engine: RB concept S5, powerhouse modded
Track conditions: loose, sandy surface
Temp/humidity: 88f 23%

XRC Car mag - January 2009

Mugen MBX6
engine: Mugen Ninja JX21-B01
Track Conditions: Medium Grip
Temp/humidity: 81f 23%

XRC Car mag - February 2009

Losi 8IGHT 2.0
engine: GRP .21 Buggy Tuned Line
Track conditions: semi-dry powdery
Temp/humidity: 72f 45%

I mean theres just a couple examples, all different track surface descriptions, all different motors, pretty large deviation in temp/humidity. not trying to start any wars, just some facts!

Jaz240

iTrader: (52)

The war started 3 pages ago! I would like to know how somebody posting that he was very unhappy with the quality of his MP9 became a comparison thread between the MP9 and the Z car? I would guess my AZZHOLE nephew had some hand in it, but it didn't seem like he started it..whatever..I saw Jarod and Cody at The Nitro Challenge on Sunday and both of them were kicking butt with their MP9's...there are 2 guys who run them every week here at The Nitro Pit and I haven't seen any broken arms..Actually I see more Broken Mugen arms than any other car..that wouldn't stop me from buying one though....

smracer31

iTrader: (6)

This thread is hilarious! i think it needs to be stickied for comedic purposes.

On another note, i saw it mentioned but nobody else brought it up, im not sure how kyosho's manufacturing process and distribution works but if they are out sourcing there parts to different manufactures(or plastic companies) you may be getting different parts than we are state side. You may try ordering a set of arms from a-main hobbies, i think they ship internationaly and see if that doesn't cure your problem.

I also want to point out that i think we have all been in the same position that the OP has been in, when we spend our hard earned dollars on a car that doesn't live up to our own expectations it is frustrating. I raced on-road for a long time and i know I felt that way several times and wanted to just throw the car in the trash can at times. So stick with the K-car im sure the problems will be ironed out over time like all the top buggies on the market, it just takes time.

amonmp9

i drive in italy, i no see arms broke of mp9 for now... i see a coupple of upper front arms, some diff case(the old, and people that not change it...)

my mp9 i think is very strong.

its a LOL thread

cfr7

iTrader: (5)

I really don't know why I'm degrading myself by responding to someone who is obviously a complete idiot, and isn't going to let me convince him he's not a rocket scientist. I am not a top pro, but I do work at a hobby shop and I have driven my fair share of cars. Anyone who races anything offroad can tell you that testing an offroad RC car for 0-60ft times is a worthless test. I'm not saying that all tests done by magazines are not worth reading, quite the contrary, but I guess that assumption could be made. I was not attacking the Z-Car either, but YOU were the one that brought up how strong the car was, I was simply saying that the car is not indestructible, every car breaks, LIKE I SAID! And if your going to tell me to cease the name calling, I believe you are the one acting like a 12 year old girl in this situation, I never called anyone names (in my first post), I simply said the defense was dumb and it was a dumb test, would you prefer I called it asinine?
Need I remind you that we are testing OFFROAD RC CARS for 0-60 times, not full scale onroad cars straight off the showroom floor. There are too many variables in track conditions and equipment to consider this a valid test. I would respect a side by side lap time test between the two cars run on the same track with similar conditions and running equipment, right down to the clutch springs, RC MAGAZINES DO RUN these tests, go find one. To any magazine editor or otherwise that might be reading this, I am in no way bashing tests run by mag's, I find some to be very informative, just not in this particular case.
As far as my seeing a pro driver drive his car and basing my opinion on that, I have been good friends with Kelby Roberts for years, I have seen him drive many cars and I race with him regularly, I respect his opinions as well as his driving abilities. While he might be considered a Pro, he is an equal in my eyes as I race with him (and get beat by him) weekly. I have yet to see him complain about any major parts breakage on the car, with the exception of a diff case issue that has been resolved by the company. So as far as my assuming that these complaints must be false, I wasn't assuming nearly as much about a car as you were about my background and intelligence.

And yes, I can comprehend the data gathered from testing, I also know when to base my opinions on what I read in tests, do you? Go ahead and continue insulting people online, I'm sure it does wonders for the company you are trying to promote.

Piss off
Chris

By the way, you can feel free to respond to this, but I won't bother reading it.

SPEEDSKI

Didn't see you objecting to any of the others bashings on this forum. KoyToy guys are sensitive.

You may not like it, but it is called "FREEDOM OF SPEECH".

Mo Denton

iTrader: (55)

your all idiots
thanks
Mo Denton

IanWright

iTrader: (1)

It's comedic people declaring freedom of speech as an excuse to say anything on a forum. A forum is controlled by moderators and works to terms and conditions for members that are designed to keep forums respectful and pleasant to take part in. A thread like this is down to the admins discretion, freedom of speech does not come into it. Personally, i would not like to make the call and i am a very experienced moderator, it will come down to what they want this forum to be. A slanging match and unreasonable over the top declarations not to buy a major brand is probably not what they want and their influence is probably needed here in some way.

MadRussian

iTrader: (3)

Certainly, I enjoy debating when addressed with a modicum of respect, and will respond with equal respect.
I understand what your point is, and what you are saying.
But..
Look at Motor Trend, or Car and Driver, road and track etc.
They test different cars with different motors in varying humidity and weather conditions, as its impossible to recreate exact conditions, and of course the car engines are different, as they are different cars.
Same with motorcycle magazines, they test in different countries sometimes, and of course with different engines as well.

I never stated that the example I posted was "the" or only answer to all the criteria one would use for a choice of buggy, but everybody sure assumed I though it was.
However it was interesting that of almost all the buggies tested the Z-Car was the fastest 0-60 ft? In fact I have been searching but I havent found a faster buggy time, a few close though.
So I felt it was an interesting tidbit of info that a $800 buggy compared to a $469 buggy that is slightly heavier, and with a less powerful engine, with SH tires that ship with the kit, against the AKAs the Kyosho comes with beat it by almost a half a sec in the tests.

Xtreme RC is not infallible, but until there is another magazine, 3rd party, or website that chooses to perform tests as they do, I guess its about the ONLY yardstick we have at the moment as they are the only ones that imho really test and provide results. I appreciate as well their Xdyno testing of every engine that comes through their mag. They attempt to provide us with as close as possible (of course perfected standardized testing really does not exist, except in a lab environment, where every possible variable is controlled) test results as a basis for comparison so that we may examine the data and use it, along with any actual hands on or physical experience, as information on making a smart informed decision on which buggy to buy.

Personally I think the $800+ price for the MP9 is high, and as such, it better be an equivalent amount of performance/durability better. Its not. Thats my issue with it. I dont think the price is fair for racers, especially with the issues with durability and drivability.

My point was that a buggy for half the cost (even more than if you catch a sale) less hp by a 1/3, ordinary tires, outaccelerated by almost a half a second in 0-60 ft times. So it had all the disadvantages of: less hp, not as good tires, and slightly more weight... When you combine all that, and then add the cost of the MP 9 to it, the end result was most interesting to me.

If the MP9 was priced CLOSE to other top tier buggies, I could be more tolerant of its issues, but when they put it on a pedestal as their pricing has, it had better perform and last an equivalent level.

This is an expensive enough hobby, if a company is gonna hammer the racers wallets, then the goods should be worth it. Thats my whole point.

pitpop

RC Tech has nothing to do with "freedom of speech", (duh) it has everything to do with horrible administration

SPEEDSKI

And nothing to do with the fact you drive a Kyosho?????, I am not bashing anything, the guy can say what he wants!