OS Speed drivability
 

I just got a speed recently and am real impressed by the power of this .21. It originally came with the jp-4 and it was real difficult to drive due to the power band kicking in real hard on the bottom after what felt like a bit of a hesitation which I am told is the weighted crank. I borrowed a os2050 pipe and header and it smoothed out the power band a bit, and made it a bit more controlable. I am still trying to find a way to make the power delivery a bit smoother insted of the crazy bottom\mid range punch. I am running it in a jammin x2crt. I have run several motors in this truggy including the go 5pt., jammin .21, and this engine is so much harder to drive because of the power curve I am experiencing. Anyone have any suggestions, and am I the only one that has experienced this comming from other mills?

Put a 6mm restrictor in it and that will solve your problem. The power will come on smoother and still be really fast.

What clutch are you running? I prefer mugen carbon shoes and 1.0 springs, I tried aluminum shoes and had the same problem as you. The Speed has plenty of bottom to handle an earlier engadgement of the clutch.

Try the O.S. 2060. I have heard that is supposed to be the smoother of the two. I personally don't have either. I didn't feel like putting out that kind of coin right after I already had for the motor so I bought the EB mods EFRA 2041. I havent gotten a chance to break in the new speed yet though. I have been running a JP-3 on my standard v-spec in my losi truggy and it has been good to me so far. But I think the smoothest would be the 2060, or atleast thats what I have heard.

The 2060 is smoother, i like the feel of it over the 2050 in my truggy, and still has killer runtime. The IDRC carb insert is the way to go, I'm using a JX .21 in truggy but it is close to a speed in design only.

I am running a 8mm restrictor right now with a mugen clutch 1.0 springs and dynamite max life shoes. The track that I am running right now is loose dirt and bumpy so it kind of amplifies the problem. Is the IDRC carb insert that good compared to others, I have been eyeing those for a while but did not know much about them.

OS 2060 is THE way to go on the speed. I think it runs best with the 8mm venturi. Just rebuilt mine and put a eb modded head button and back plate. Ed says i should run the 9mm venturi but winter set in here in pa so i haven't had a chance to try. These motors have great power everywhere and rev better and pull harder than anything i've seen. JX ninja pretty identical. Get the right pipe on it. You can still get a eb mods 2041 on ebay if you find the 2060 too salty. Work with your clutch. You may have to stagger the spring tension. Look into answer-rcusa clutch set. Comes with shoes and 3 sets of springs, 0.9, 1.0 and 1.1 for 19 bucks.

Now what do you guys think of the JP-3 VS JP-4 on the speed? I like the way it drives with the JP 3, I have not had a chance to use a 4 on it, but I do have one.

Thanks,

has anyone ran a dynamite 086 on one of the speeds? I have one laying around and I have really liked it on other mils. I am interested in seeing if you like the eb mods head button. It looks good on the dyno, I just am curious as to feel with the trigger?

Hambone, Can you elaborate on what performance benefits that the eb modded head button and back plate have? Thanks

IMO the speed is probally one of the smoothest motors out there, along with the GRP and JX.21. i have a jammin and that thing is crazy "punchy", more like an on/off switch. i ran a 2050 only cuz i had one but i would have like to try the 2060 as i c many people using them on Speed. if you don't feel like shelling out the cash for new pipes, you can always play with your expo in your radio to tame the motor down, its free. carbon shoes are always a good idea to, smoother than aluminum.

Look at the jx ninja thread. Tony's screws posted the dyno comparison stock vs modded. As far as the backplate goes i would have to ask ed what that does power band wise. The head modified button is reshaped. It slows down the speed of the mixture getting forced toward the glow plug. Best explanation i can give. Slows the burn. I know what ed did to it but that's for him to say if he wants. My speed motor screams. Got a rebuild after 9 gallons. It never ran like this. I practiced with it over thanksgiving when i was down south visiting my son. First time on a outdoor track since rebuild. Only had the 8mm venturi in it and i couldn't be happier. Got monster power everywhere.

I don't know if they are out yet, But you have to try the new BB Mods V-spec. I drove one Wednesday night, and it blow the speed motor out of the water. It also cheaper and a lot of hand work goes into them. We tried a fuel millage run with a 6.5mm insert, and a 97T OD plug. I don't want to say too much but it was really impressive. I also didn't mean EB Mods V-spec, they are BB Mods and available from Hobbico soon.

Yep with the OS 2060 pipe, the Speed is very smooth. :nod:

remember the X2 Truggy is much lighter in the back end then the MBX5T you were used to.... The Speed is actually a very smooth engine with a weighted crank..I would be looking at setup as your not going to find a much smoother easier to drive 21 then a Speed.....

I just read where your saying the motor has a hesitation, then it goes.... this is not normal for a Speed.... The Speed should pull smooth and steady right off idle... not lul then explode........ I would consider checking your MSN position as well as clutch engagement RPM, a low engaging clutch or out of position MSN would cause this issue...

2 weeks ago my boys were running a JPX 21 vs a Speed and by far the Speed was smoother and easier to drive, the JPX was coming on too hard out of the corners and kicking out, the Speed was tracking straight and easy....We use Speeds for loose slick tracks, and run the Picco's on high bite tracks..... Which is why I say your issues are setup related and not engine related, a Speed is actually even mellower down low then a regular V-Spec

Thanks for the info Maxixmo. Like I said I am running max life shoes with 1.0 springs. I am thinking a sooner engagement or carbon shoes might help a bit. The Jammin x2 is definitly a lot lighter then my mugen and so far has proven much more difficult to drive. I have been messing with setup and it has gotten better, but it is still real twitchy on the rough tracks. Does anyone know the stock setting on the needles for the speed? I bought it used and have not touched the middle needle but who knows what the guy before me did. What about the eb 2041 for a pipe? I cannot find any info on this besides people saying they like it. Is it a low end, midrange, or high end pipe?

Here are the stock needle settings, they're quite rich at 550 ft.
HSN: 3.5 turns
LSN: 5.25 turns
Mid: Flush with carb body

Thanks, On the mid do you play with the setting much or do most people just leave it and use the standard lsn and hsn. I have never messed with a three needle carb.

For the most part, most people leave the mid needle alone. Not really any need to mess with it. If you stick to using just the HSN and LSN, the O.S. engines are about the easiest to tune.

+1 definately leave the mid range needle alone. I have seen way to many problems caused by people messing with that needle. Leave her set at flush and you will be fine. I don't know what you would call a 2041 as far as a low end or high end pipe but you can check out the dyno results on the EB site.
www.ebmods.com

I beleive Hobog's motor came with his X2, so its possible the previous owner had tweaked the needles.....

I just checked the mid needle and it was 3\4 to 1 turn out(rich). Maybe this explains the the so called lag I was trying to explain. It wasn't like it was a bog, it just really exploded when it got on the pipe. So maybe it was loading up in the mid and then when it finally cleared out it was making it hit real hard. Just a theory, I would love to try it out but it just snowed a few inches today.

The eb mods 2041 pipe is a little stronger on the bottom compared to the 2060. You can go to ebmods.com and compare dyno graphs of the v spec with both pipes. 2041 will be listed as a mielke 2041.

Hobdog.. The 2060 pipe WILL do the trick. if you already have the 2050, i would suggest getting the ninja 2042 pipe which is the same as the OS 2060, but it's available pipe only, and a lil cheaper... buy the pipe only and use the L header from your 2050.. :nod:
The clutch your running is fine, providing it's new and works free with NO binding. I would run the 2060/2042 w/ L header, P4 plug, and a 8mm stack.
The EB head button available from www.Tonysscrews.com is a great option for anyone looking for bolt on power. The button will not affect run-time or drive-ability...As you can see in the dyno graph on the http://www.rctech.net/forum/nitro-of...en-jx21-6.html thread the power-band is very smooth and consistent. The mid range needle can be used to adjust power curve if you are an experienced tuner..

Here is a good starting point as far as setting..
IDLE: 1 full turn from just closed
LSN: 4-1/2 turns from closed
MRN: 3-3/4 turns from closed "flush" 10 o'clock
HSN: 3 turns from closed

Tune your engine on the money with the HSN & LSN, shouldn't have to touch the idle much more then an hour if at all. THEN
If you wanna adjust the mid,,, If you want more low end, lean your LSN an hour and richen your MRN an hour.... vis-versa ...the MRN and LSN work together..

Hope this helps! Good Luck!
ps. the eb BP has no major +affect on any other OS other then the EB V spec which is no longer available.

what breakin method do you use on the speed, one post earlier said they got 9 gallons, i would be happy to get 4, let me hear from ya.

jlo

I have a couple of Speeds and I stop counting at 10 gal. For the money, they are some of the best engines on the market. And yeah I said for the money.....

are you saying 10 gal, with no rebuild, thats awsome, what breakin method do you use and what temps do you run

+1

We heat cycle them on a break in station, for about 30-40 mins straight.

No, I am saying 10+ gallons!! And the only screw I turned was the fuel screw. I was hobby stupid and thought it would run forever and I almost think it would. A friend finally convinced me it would die one day, so I bought another one and rebuilt the old one.... Just heat cycle it. Pro Twister breaks them in for me on a stand now but the in-car heat cycling will work. I was running it 185 - 200.

Well I guess it is the 2060 I will try next, along with the readjusted mid needle and see how it goes. I knew that there would be a solution to this. The speed is to popular, and with the price tag it carries, it has to be as smooth as everone says it is. I am intersted in a winter time eb mods head insert, but I would like to find a driveable solution to the speed I am running before looking for more hp. Lets talk mechanical pinch. Like I said I purchase the engine with my truggy which was said to be 1 1\2 gallons old (truck and engine). I keep hearing about the engine loosening up and the pinch going away around 2 gallons. What is exactly ment by that? With the plug out, my engine has a slight amount of tdc pinch. Very easy to turn by hand. It has performed excellent since I have had it. Besides being a bit squirley it is fast with alot of bottom end for a .21. When is a good time to either replace the piston and sleeve or get a pinch (which a pinch is what i am leaning to since the last pinch I got worked really well. The rod on this engine was supposedly replaced after break in so it can't be many gallons old (2 gallons at most) ). I would like to get this engine in tip top shape for next summer as I plan on running alot of races on it.

I wouldn't touch that mid needle. I have seen a few guys try it and it never seems to come out well....

So after figuring out that the msn was way to rich, I enjoyed many gallons out of my speed this summer and winter. I am freshening up the piston, sleeve and conrod for the up and coming season. Are those #s for a new stock out of box ready to break in speed or are those #s close to what a already broke in engine should be at. I am getting ready to break this thing in and am wonder where to start as far as settings. Also your idle says " one full turn from just closed" I am assuming this means the carb slide closed without the restrictor in? Any advice would be appriciated. I would like to break this thing in real easy and consistant with the ab mods heat cycle method I read about on these forums.

Those numbers are for an engine that has been broken in. These are the stock settings that a brand new carb would have on the Speed:
HSN: 3.5 turns
LSN: 5.25 turns
Mid: Flush with carb body

Idle needle is one full turn from fully closed with no restrictor in place.

My speed started to flame out in it's 10th gallon. Put a new pair of tko's and a new p/s/r with the eb modded head button and back plate. It rips better than new. Shopping for a 2nd motor, but i'll always have a speed. It never stops pulling. Thinking about adding a pro mod v spec and a eb mods go engine. Ran other motors in my 8t and when i go back to the speed i can't figure out why i gave it a rest. I hear jx .21 about the same, but until i see it....

Rob jaylude is correct the idle should be 1 full turn from JUST closed with no stack..
Also you'll get to see both the EBM5, and the EBJX run at Motorama. Ed will be running the EBM5, and i'll be running the EBJX.. The JX is VERY similar to the "Speed" at a cheaper price, with better reliability. See you next week! ;)

Thanks for the info guys. Since you all have broke in speeds before, were you able to get them started for the first time with these stock settings and idle gap, or what did you need to lean out to get them to start and run fat for break in? Let's say they seem to fat to get going, would your first thing to do be to lean the lsn to get it to start? Just asking, because that is were I would go first to get it to fire, and then if the idle was to high or low I would adjust from there. Let me know if this is the process of the pros or just a plumber trying to break in a engine. THX!

I find that stock settings need to be changed in order for the engine to idle. Once the idle gap is set, you should be able to set the idle by adjusting the LSN. When it idles correctly, your LSN should be within the range. HSN may need to be leaned out a little, but won't make as much difference as the low until you start getting the car moving, giving it throttle.

Thanks Jason!