Sportsmanship or stupid?
08-06-2008, 02:43 PM
#196
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I hate it when aliens crash an A final. Hams and hackers the lot.
08-06-2008, 03:12 PM
#197
Here's a couple more clips from Saturday's race.
And BTW....my wife took all the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP-QUqDbWWI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSvAS7mdBRk
And BTW....my wife took all the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP-QUqDbWWI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSvAS7mdBRk
08-06-2008, 03:33 PM
#198
I have not been racing long but all i do is race my own race and try to keep it clean. If the leader comes up behind us our race commentator lets us all know and i just hold my line cause as i see it if they are fast enough and good enough to lap you then they are skilled enough to pass you. I find that after the race i am a lap or two off the pace if not on it.But if you bump them off or push them off a line then that may be a different story and as for hitting them on purpose...IT'S NOT ON!!. But then again in the next breath a little door rubbing is good for racing as long as it's not in malice.
Just my two cents
Just my two cents
08-06-2008, 04:31 PM
#199
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Perhaps the discussion should be viewed parellel to 1/1 racing. After all this is scale racing.
If i look at it in 1/1 mentality. If i drove through someone in the rough section and wrecked the car in front i would expect a black flag. If i held up a race leader and blocked him when i wasn't in a dogfight for position, i would expect a black flag. If i chased someone down the straight and used the car in front as a break because he is a backmarker that got in the way i would expect the consequences of probably injuring the guy.
Just because you are not in the car and can not be phyiscally injured doesn't mean anyone should drive with less respect.
General opinion seems to be if you are running in space and being lapped, run your line or move over... as long as you are not BLOCKING the guy from coming through.
If you are battling a position in the field while being lapped, you can not be expected to throw a position to let the leader through. That's when split decisions get made by all parties.
Personally if i have a pit window, that's when i will use it to avoid trouble.
If the battle for 1 and 2 comes up on battle for 6 and 7, now that's my idea of fun and seperates the man from the ham...
If i look at it in 1/1 mentality. If i drove through someone in the rough section and wrecked the car in front i would expect a black flag. If i held up a race leader and blocked him when i wasn't in a dogfight for position, i would expect a black flag. If i chased someone down the straight and used the car in front as a break because he is a backmarker that got in the way i would expect the consequences of probably injuring the guy.
Just because you are not in the car and can not be phyiscally injured doesn't mean anyone should drive with less respect.
General opinion seems to be if you are running in space and being lapped, run your line or move over... as long as you are not BLOCKING the guy from coming through.
If you are battling a position in the field while being lapped, you can not be expected to throw a position to let the leader through. That's when split decisions get made by all parties.
Personally if i have a pit window, that's when i will use it to avoid trouble.
If the battle for 1 and 2 comes up on battle for 6 and 7, now that's my idea of fun and seperates the man from the ham...
08-06-2008, 04:41 PM
#200
Perhaps the discussion should be viewed parellel to 1/1 racing. After all this is scale racing.
If i look at it in 1/1 mentality. If i drove through someone in the rough section and wrecked the car in front i would expect a black flag. If i held up a race leader and blocked him when i wasn't in a dogfight for position, i would expect a black flag. If i chased someone down the straight and used the car in front as a break because he is a backmarker that got in the way i would expect the consequences of probably injuring the guy.
Just because you are not in the car and can not be phyiscally injured doesn't mean anyone should drive with less respect.
General opinion seems to be if you are running in space and being lapped, run your line or move over... as long as you are not BLOCKING the guy from coming through.
If you are battling a position in the field while being lapped, you can not be expected to throw a position to let the leader through. That's when split decisions get made by all parties.
Personally if i have a pit window, that's when i will use it to avoid trouble.
If the battle for 1 and 2 comes up on battle for 6 and 7, now that's my idea of fun and seperates the man from the ham...
If i look at it in 1/1 mentality. If i drove through someone in the rough section and wrecked the car in front i would expect a black flag. If i held up a race leader and blocked him when i wasn't in a dogfight for position, i would expect a black flag. If i chased someone down the straight and used the car in front as a break because he is a backmarker that got in the way i would expect the consequences of probably injuring the guy.
Just because you are not in the car and can not be phyiscally injured doesn't mean anyone should drive with less respect.
General opinion seems to be if you are running in space and being lapped, run your line or move over... as long as you are not BLOCKING the guy from coming through.
If you are battling a position in the field while being lapped, you can not be expected to throw a position to let the leader through. That's when split decisions get made by all parties.
Personally if i have a pit window, that's when i will use it to avoid trouble.
If the battle for 1 and 2 comes up on battle for 6 and 7, now that's my idea of fun and seperates the man from the ham...
You going to Nitro-Challenge this year?
08-06-2008, 07:46 PM
#201
Tech Apprentice
BlackBart,
There's a million and more "what If ?" sceneraio's
What if just after I let the leaders through to lap me. A flying saucer landed, 2 little green men appeared on the drivers stand and abducted BOTH 1st and 2nd place drivers !!! Should I have moved over to allow them through when lapping me, Or as they were going to be abducted on the next lap anyway, would blocking have been acceptable ?????
Lolzz
Rod
There's a million and more "what If ?" sceneraio's
What if just after I let the leaders through to lap me. A flying saucer landed, 2 little green men appeared on the drivers stand and abducted BOTH 1st and 2nd place drivers !!! Should I have moved over to allow them through when lapping me, Or as they were going to be abducted on the next lap anyway, would blocking have been acceptable ?????
Lolzz
Rod
08-06-2008, 07:49 PM
#202
Tech Apprentice
i not saying block someone simple racing that person (HAVING FUN) that is what we do this hope for, and some of us out there that Own Buss. us it to get away from stress for alittle bit.
08-06-2008, 07:50 PM
#203
08-06-2008, 08:15 PM
#204
Well here's an aspect not mentioned.
The other night we had a low head count and I had to run with the fast puppies.
It was a fun night with some great racing but the fun part was trying to hold a tight line and keep the fast guys from passing. It was a loud night and a lot of encouraging cheering to hold them off and make him earn the pass.
You can see the fast line following for about 2 turns then hes a ghost.
But try to hold a guy off for a few turns and you will see your weak points.
When a fast guys passes on the out side in the fluff you know hes good. But when he cant get by other than for you to go wide he needs some more practice.
People love to see this kind of stuff when just watching the race.
Its great pressure for practice racing on club nights.
The other night we had a low head count and I had to run with the fast puppies.
It was a fun night with some great racing but the fun part was trying to hold a tight line and keep the fast guys from passing. It was a loud night and a lot of encouraging cheering to hold them off and make him earn the pass.
You can see the fast line following for about 2 turns then hes a ghost.
But try to hold a guy off for a few turns and you will see your weak points.
When a fast guys passes on the out side in the fluff you know hes good. But when he cant get by other than for you to go wide he needs some more practice.
People love to see this kind of stuff when just watching the race.
Its great pressure for practice racing on club nights.
For myself when I'm leading I can see how close they can get with out hitting me and force the mistake. When I would start to open the door I would shut it real quick with some braking and hold them off. But Rusty just powers wide and goes around. Freaking faster than a shadow driver.
But its good practice to race and hold of the opponent. It all depends of coarse some times there's things on the line and respect has to be there.
Also I can charge a turn and catch a faster racer but it never pays off. I either hit them or I over shoot the turn. The pros roll up more than charge.
But its good practice to race and hold of the opponent. It all depends of coarse some times there's things on the line and respect has to be there.
Also I can charge a turn and catch a faster racer but it never pays off. I either hit them or I over shoot the turn. The pros roll up more than charge.
This mentality is exactly why this discussion so quickly got out of hand.
While it may be entertaining for those watching your heat on a club night, it's also reason why they'll be complaints the next time you request to bump up to run with the fast boys when there's another low turnout, and it's also reason why people get aggrevated when you keep cutting them off --- since you're not racing them for position but only impeding their process and holding them up --- and the shunt, bump and slam and run concept enters into their minds and the discussion.
The truth is that there is nothing to be learned by holding up the leaders and chopping their lines to keep from going another lap down. The fast guys don't do it and don't need to do it because they hold off their followers by running smooth perfect laps and not being all over the place, and you might actually learn something by following their lead instead of suggesting they'll disappear like ghosts.
The thing is that the idea of courtesy and good manners and sportsmanship is a two-way street --- and if you don't give it, you ain't gonna get it in return. But since you're the underling, as in the backmarker or new guy or slow person, you're the one that in the position of having to earn others' respect and not the other way around. The experienced guys have already earned their dues and the respect of the other racers by doing it the right way, and you'll go a lot further and get respect a lot sooner by giving some respect instead of expecting it just because you have a car.
So while so of you are so vehemently defending your idea of protecting your position --- which you're not because you're already trailing the leaders by at least one lap (likely more) and it's time your not going to be able to make up with your lack of skills, since you are already down that amount as to your own makings --- that if you don't like the idea of just getting slammed or run over, and consider it unsportsmanlike, that you follow some simple courtesies and show some sportsmanship yorself and move over and that way the faster guys will think twice about punting you when they come up on you next time whether it be later that race or next week or next month. Because the reputation of a hammer or a blocker is hard to live down, while that of a clean driver is always remembered, appreciated by your peers, and makes it much easier to get some advice or beg a spare part.
While it may be entertaining for those watching your heat on a club night, it's also reason why they'll be complaints the next time you request to bump up to run with the fast boys when there's another low turnout, and it's also reason why people get aggrevated when you keep cutting them off --- since you're not racing them for position but only impeding their process and holding them up --- and the shunt, bump and slam and run concept enters into their minds and the discussion.
The truth is that there is nothing to be learned by holding up the leaders and chopping their lines to keep from going another lap down. The fast guys don't do it and don't need to do it because they hold off their followers by running smooth perfect laps and not being all over the place, and you might actually learn something by following their lead instead of suggesting they'll disappear like ghosts.
The thing is that the idea of courtesy and good manners and sportsmanship is a two-way street --- and if you don't give it, you ain't gonna get it in return. But since you're the underling, as in the backmarker or new guy or slow person, you're the one that in the position of having to earn others' respect and not the other way around. The experienced guys have already earned their dues and the respect of the other racers by doing it the right way, and you'll go a lot further and get respect a lot sooner by giving some respect instead of expecting it just because you have a car.
So while so of you are so vehemently defending your idea of protecting your position --- which you're not because you're already trailing the leaders by at least one lap (likely more) and it's time your not going to be able to make up with your lack of skills, since you are already down that amount as to your own makings --- that if you don't like the idea of just getting slammed or run over, and consider it unsportsmanlike, that you follow some simple courtesies and show some sportsmanship yorself and move over and that way the faster guys will think twice about punting you when they come up on you next time whether it be later that race or next week or next month. Because the reputation of a hammer or a blocker is hard to live down, while that of a clean driver is always remembered, appreciated by your peers, and makes it much easier to get some advice or beg a spare part.
No one was bitter. Even the fast guys were having fun waiting on me and I even had to wait on them a couple of times. The night was so slow the race was broke down into 4, 5 minute races in order to be fueled by one pit man.
I learned a lot. It even inspired me to bump up. But after this thread I think I will stay in the class where bumping and grinding is not only expected but accepted.
The mentality was fun that night and not about racing like we were in the nationals.
I believe in sportsmanship and exert it all the time. As an intermediate racer I accept it. If I did move up my mentality would not change I would shrug it off and get back in the race if some one didn't move for me. Drive it out as the fast guys would say.
The fast guys preach this.
Now if it were the big show the rules should be practiced to a T. Move over and get back in your line. I have done this many of times so not to screw another race and screw my own.
I didn't think this thread was out of hand but if its some thing I posted I didn't mean it. I'm just looking at it from both sides of the mirror.
08-06-2008, 11:52 PM
#205
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Hell yeah, that's going to be my mark of improvement on the year! Last time i made the D and got blown out of chances for the bump with a sway bar... um... let's call it a malfunction.
Hopefully this time i won't have to practice what i preach... i was that guy keeping out of the way.
No need to ask if you will be there huh?
On topic... I am not sure there is a lot else to be said on this thread, it is a good one though. I remember when i first started ending up in a heat on my home track in the UK with some of the fastest guys in the country and just keeping the wheels on the downside and getting clear out of the way when a car rocketed up behind me. I have come a long way, and at club level i have been the rocket on occasion* now and completely respect people that make the room, even if it is a cars width on the inside.
* Not as often as i would wish!
Hopefully this time i won't have to practice what i preach... i was that guy keeping out of the way.
No need to ask if you will be there huh?
On topic... I am not sure there is a lot else to be said on this thread, it is a good one though. I remember when i first started ending up in a heat on my home track in the UK with some of the fastest guys in the country and just keeping the wheels on the downside and getting clear out of the way when a car rocketed up behind me. I have come a long way, and at club level i have been the rocket on occasion* now and completely respect people that make the room, even if it is a cars width on the inside.
* Not as often as i would wish!
08-07-2008, 09:06 AM
#206
Suspended
If they are coming up behind me I'd move over as the courteous and sportsman thing to do, and I'd expect the same behavior in return if the shoe was on the other foot. If I was coming up on a slower car that refused to get out of the way or was intentionally blocking my progress, I guess I have a choice of muscling my way past or waiting to get muscled past by those coming up behind me.
08-07-2008, 01:01 PM
#207
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Of course if you have another place breathing down your neck it's going to be a tough call, but worth remembering everyone following you has to deal with him as well... if you make it past clean chances is are he will snag with 2nd or third place.
There are so many ways to tackle overtaking without using brute force and contact. Smart will always win over flipping a coin with contact as to wether you crash or not.
08-07-2008, 01:31 PM
#208
Tech Apprentice
Or option C. If you are on a back marker he is slower for a reason and you are faster for a reason, it can be well worth applying pressure to force a mistake. Under pressure they will make a mistake, run wide or simply crash. If someone is intentionally blocking they are easy to outwit... they are having to drive with one eye on you, one eye on the blocking line and a third eye on the track... and by default they are driving slower to do so... the blocking line is not the fast line... if you are quick enough at that point you will know there are more than one fast line round part of a track, how to set up a corner or two before the corner you wish to pass on and so on.
Of course if you have another place breathing down your neck it's going to be a tough call, but worth remembering everyone following you has to deal with him as well... if you make it past clean chances is are he will snag with 2nd or third place.
There are so many ways to tackle overtaking without using brute force and contact. Smart will always win over flipping a coin with contact as to wether you crash or not.
Of course if you have another place breathing down your neck it's going to be a tough call, but worth remembering everyone following you has to deal with him as well... if you make it past clean chances is are he will snag with 2nd or third place.
There are so many ways to tackle overtaking without using brute force and contact. Smart will always win over flipping a coin with contact as to wether you crash or not.
08-07-2008, 04:09 PM
#209
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Or option C. If you are on a back marker he is slower for a reason and you are faster for a reason, it can be well worth applying pressure to force a mistake. Under pressure they will make a mistake, run wide or simply crash. If someone is intentionally blocking they are easy to outwit... they are having to drive with one eye on you, one eye on the blocking line and a third eye on the track... and by default they are driving slower to do so... the blocking line is not the fast line... if you are quick enough at that point you will know there are more than one fast line round part of a track, how to set up a corner or two before the corner you wish to pass on and so on.
Of course if you have another place breathing down your neck it's going to be a tough call, but worth remembering everyone following you has to deal with him as well... if you make it past clean chances is are he will snag with 2nd or third place.
There are so many ways to tackle overtaking without using brute force and contact. Smart will always win over flipping a coin with contact as to wether you crash or not.
Of course if you have another place breathing down your neck it's going to be a tough call, but worth remembering everyone following you has to deal with him as well... if you make it past clean chances is are he will snag with 2nd or third place.
There are so many ways to tackle overtaking without using brute force and contact. Smart will always win over flipping a coin with contact as to wether you crash or not.
It's been my experience that this is a fast hobby in which things happen fast and I would venture to guess that people don't have the time to wait around for someone a lap down to make a mistake.
Great idea, but seldom has the opprotunity or time to work out that way.
08-07-2008, 04:29 PM
#210
I think it depends on when you started racing. If you started out racing electric I find that thoes drivers are normally more patient and will move out the way or give you a clean line to make a pass if you are lapping them.
However thoes who started racing in nitro seem to be more o fthe throtal jockey type that will race you to every corner and even when you get arround them will push you out the way in the next turn.
I also find that if you give racers respect you will get it back from them. If someone comes from behind me and takes me out in a corner you best bet I am going to come back and do the same. If they do a stop and go I will race clean with them. I race clean and if you are comeing behind me to lap me I will let you know im going to give you the line and where it will be. I expect the same but I know it will not always be the case and if I am in a lead spot and you are holing me up and the person behind me is comeing up and i tell you and you do not give me a line I will take you out. I will always stop and go if i hit someone dirty.
I would rather be known as a clean racer than someone who will cut piped and punt. It goes further in the long run to have a good ontrack reputation.
However thoes who started racing in nitro seem to be more o fthe throtal jockey type that will race you to every corner and even when you get arround them will push you out the way in the next turn.
I also find that if you give racers respect you will get it back from them. If someone comes from behind me and takes me out in a corner you best bet I am going to come back and do the same. If they do a stop and go I will race clean with them. I race clean and if you are comeing behind me to lap me I will let you know im going to give you the line and where it will be. I expect the same but I know it will not always be the case and if I am in a lead spot and you are holing me up and the person behind me is comeing up and i tell you and you do not give me a line I will take you out. I will always stop and go if i hit someone dirty.
I would rather be known as a clean racer than someone who will cut piped and punt. It goes further in the long run to have a good ontrack reputation.