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Mugen MBX6

Old 01-12-2009, 06:08 AM
  #2176  
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I believe there is a bit of confusion on the diffs and shimming. Inside the diff case, there should be a total of 2 o-rings and 6 shims. On each outdive where it goes into the diff case and ring gear, there is a S5 oring, then a large/thin shim, then the drive pin, then the gear. On the 4 spider gears, there is also a thin shim on the outside of each. Once the diff is completely assembled, when putting it in to the bulkhead, you can add shims the the outside of the 8x16 bearings to set the ring/pinion gear mesh properly. On my car i put no shims to adjust the ring/pinion gear mesh as it was tight enough. After the diff is run in for about 1/2 gallon, I went back and readjusted the gear mesh and shimmed as needed. Hopefully this helps clear it up.
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Old 01-12-2009, 06:23 AM
  #2177  
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Originally Posted by jsmax
I believe there is a bit of confusion on the diffs and shimming. Inside the diff case, there should be a total of 2 o-rings and 6 shims. On each outdive where it goes into the diff case and ring gear, there is a S5 oring, then a large/thin shim, then the drive pin, then the gear. On the 4 spider gears, there is also a thin shim on the outside of each. Once the diff is completely assembled, when putting it in to the bulkhead, you can add shims the the outside of the 8x16 bearings to set the ring/pinion gear mesh properly. On my car i put no shims to adjust the ring/pinion gear mesh as it was tight enough. After the diff is run in for about 1/2 gallon, I went back and readjusted the gear mesh and shimmed as needed. Hopefully this helps clear it up.
I think everyone is clear on the o-rings and washer/shim inside the diffs. Well OK, to be clear, the S3 o-rings are confusing , but it's clearly not something you use because the diffs are too tight with them. The confusion today is stemming from the diff shims that go on the outdrive in the case. This tightens the ring gear to the gear that connects the shafts to the center diff. The gear mesh on mine felt fine w/o them, so I still don't know if I should be running them or not.

So... how many of you are running this optional shim?

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Old 01-12-2009, 07:26 AM
  #2178  
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Originally Posted by rearviewmirror

So... how many of you are running this optional shim?

I'm using the shim, but I put it on the other side of the diff. My diff felt perfect with no shim at all, but if I pushed on/side loaded the gear side of the diff, I could get the gear mesh to be too tight. With the shim on the "case side" of the diff, for me, it made me feel better knowing the gears would never bind. I had the diff out last week and the mesh looks great..
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:39 AM
  #2179  
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Originally Posted by thuren
I'm using the shim, but I put it on the other side of the diff. My diff felt perfect with no shim at all, but if I pushed on/side loaded the gear side of the diff, I could get the gear mesh to be too tight. With the shim on the "case side" of the diff, for me, it made me feel better knowing the gears would never bind. I had the diff out last week and the mesh looks great..
My MBX6 needed no shims. But, when you shim your diff, there are two adjustments. The diff first off must be shimmed to the bulkhead case. Put the diff in the bulkhead without the pinion and see if the diff has side to side play in the bulkhead. If so, install a shim or shims to remove the side to side play. Once thats done, install the pinion and check you gear mesh. If its too tight or loose, move the installed shim(s) to adjust the mesh properly. Apply grease and your done.
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:43 AM
  #2180  
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Originally Posted by ezveedub
My MBX6 needed no shims. But, when you shim your diff, there are two adjustments. The diff first off must be shimmed to the bulkhead case. Put the diff in the bulkhead without the pinion and see if the diff has side to side play in the bulkhead. If so, install a shim or shims to remove the side to side play. Once thats done, install the pinion and check you gear mesh. If its too tight or loose, move the installed shim(s) to adjust the mesh properly. Apply grease and your done.
Mine was the same way, I had no side to side play in the differential without the pinion gear installed. Once the pinion was put back in the mesh between the two gears was spot on. So just to summarize, I used no diff shims in the cases.
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:56 AM
  #2181  
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Originally Posted by ezveedub
My MBX6 needed no shims. But, when you shim your diff, there are two adjustments. The diff first off must be shimmed to the bulkhead case. Put the diff in the bulkhead without the pinion and see if the diff has side to side play in the bulkhead. If so, install a shim or shims to remove the side to side play. Once thats done, install the pinion and check you gear mesh. If its too tight or loose, move the installed shim(s) to adjust the mesh properly. Apply grease and your done.
With the gears under load, naturally they will want to separate, so the gears would never be tight while operating in theory. For me, with the outdrives moving with the suspension(pushing/pulling), and grit and dirt constantly getting in the outdrives, I felt better with a bit of case preload so that once the diff bearings break in a bit, the ring gear will have a harder time shoving itself into the pinion. Thats just how I did it, as the mesh with no shims seemed a bit tight to me. I can't imagine anyone needing the shim as noted in the instructions.

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Old 01-12-2009, 11:46 AM
  #2182  
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Originally Posted by rearviewmirror
Another build issue. One of the Servo Saver posts (C0356 / Page 8 in the manual) is NOT threaded. I'm trying bolt the front end to the chassis and the damn thing isn't threaded at all. There is two of them, one is threaded, one is not.
Just spoke to Mike at MugenRacing. They're sending me out a new one. Oh well, the delays sucks but I'll get by, as long as the car is ready by the end of the month I'm happy.
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Old 01-12-2009, 11:54 AM
  #2183  
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the diff was fine without a shim after building but i added one anyway after seeking advice on how they held up when shimmed loose, on the 5R i always used 2 shims on the opposite side to that suggested in the manual to free up the drive you will be amazed how free my 5R spun like that, so i asked and was told that 1 shim would be ok for the 6 as the gears are very good and unlikely to break again this was placed opposite to the suggested place in the manual, the diffs would of been ok without any shims so no need to worry, just to get an idea on how good the 5R diffs were i ran my car un-shimmed for over 3 years without breakage and the diffs used to move in the gearbox for sure and i m told the 6 gears are just as strong.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:49 PM
  #2184  
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Just wondering if it's wurth doing the different gears in the rear diff and adjusting centre diff oil....

ordering a mbx6 soon and trying to figure out if i should order them right from the get go.

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Old 01-12-2009, 02:27 PM
  #2185  
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Originally Posted by "G-DOT"
Just wondering if it's wurth doing the different gears in the rear diff and adjusting centre diff oil....

ordering a mbx6 soon and trying to figure out if i should order them right from the get go.

You would definitely have to run the car's stock setup first to baseline the performance and then try the optional rear diff gearing afterwards to see how it performs.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:39 PM
  #2186  
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that's true...

Maybe i'll order them, and test the car stock first.

Thanks
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:24 PM
  #2187  
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Originally Posted by "G-DOT"
that's true...

Maybe i'll order them, and test the car stock first.

Thanks
Definitely try the car stock. The car has a lot of punch as is. I am looking for a better understanding on the option ring and pinion because to me it would not make sense to gear your rear diff lower than the front. I would think the rear would be more likely to break lose on power. Now I can see running the front geared lower to pull the car out of the turns or even gearing both the front and the rear and then re gearing the clutch bell or spur for a different final drive ratio, but only gearing the rear doesnt seem right to me.
I will just have to test and find out for myself.

Last edited by jpz_67; 01-12-2009 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:27 PM
  #2188  
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different car i know but savoya used the 5R option gears in the rear at last years euros with real heavy diff oils
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:41 PM
  #2189  
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Originally Posted by jpz_67
Definitely try the car stock. The car has a lot of punch as is. I am looking for a better understanding on the option ring and pinion because to me it would not make sense to gear your rear diff lower than the front. I would think the rear would be more likely to break lose on power. Now I can see running the front geared lower to pull the car out of the turns or even gearing both the front and the rear and then re gearing the clutch bell or spur for a different final drive ratio, but only the gearing he rear doesnt seem right to me.
I will just have to test and find out for myself.
The rear option does opposite of what your thinking. It will drive the front more than the rear (front wheels spin at faster rate than rear), so the car drives more on the front diff. If you put the option gears in the front, it will drive like rear wheel drive, and the front wheels will most likely break loose under turning and push the front end since it won't be turning fast enough.
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Old 01-12-2009, 06:43 PM
  #2190  
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Onroad cars have the same option and it makes the car pull harder out of a corner this is an option quite commonly used in electric 4wd racing.
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