Ninja .21 and Ninja .28 Dyno Runs
05-12-2007, 12:23 PM
#1
Ninja .21 and Ninja .28 Dyno Runs
Well I finally made it up to EB Mods shop Thursday to finish all my testing on the .21 Ninja motors. We must have pulled at least 50 runs on the .21 .....LOL We then broke in the Ninja .28 and were really impressed.
The first thing I wanted to test was the TKO ceramics I installed after the runs we took back in November. I ran the motor twice since then to get the balls seated in the races. The dyno graph is pretty impressive how the ceramic engine bearings improved the torque and power.
This graph is of the Ninja B01 .21 off-road engine with the stock bearings versus with a front & rear TKO ceramic bearing:
We then tested a ton of pipes & header combos. The Novarossi 9853 pipe and short Novarossi header still yielded the best torque curve. The MSR1005 pipe and header still yielded the most peak Hp, but the bottom end was a bit softer and the top-end fell off quicker. The MSR1005 should yield a little bit better run time though due to how the pipe & header flows. The tune on the motor was 1/8 turn leaner for optimum performance with the MSR1005 compared to the Novarossi 9853. When I last ran my MBX5T at HobbyHut last year, I was getting 12 minutes of run time with the Ninja 2053 pipe and Ninja long header. Two weekends ago I ran the MSR1005 pipe & header on the .21 Ninja and was still getting a bit over 11 minutes run time in the truck. The power though was off the hook. I was running down most trucks down the front straight and had to let off the throttle on many occasions. The truck would also come out of the corners and would just rip!
The Novarossi 9886 worked great on both of the Ninjas as well, but there was a slight studder in power in the very upper RPM range of both motors (more so on the .21). It wouldn't stop me from running the 9886 on the Ninja's if I already had one, but wouldn't be my top choice if buying a new pipe. We spent a lot of time trying to tune that studder out, but couldn't. The biggest problem is if the tune is off, that studder gets worse.
We also tested several carburetor venturi's (restrictors) on both Ninja motors. The Ninja B01 that I've been running and tested with comes with a 7.0mm carb restrictor. The carb restrictor by itself flows much more than any other OEM carb restrictor. After putting the carb, motor and pipes on the flow bench we calculated the maximum RPM's the .21 Ninja could turn and the 7.0mm restrictor is right on the money. Interestingly enough the new Ninja .28 comes with a 7.0mm carb restrictor as well and couldn't be a more perfect match on the .28 Ninja. Considering the .28 Novarossi comes with a 9mm restrictor, we hope the .28 Ninja gets better run times than the fuel thirsty .28 Nova's. We also tested Ralph Walter's Innovative Design carb restrictors on the flow bench as well. These restrictors flow better than any OEM carb restrictor out there, but unfortunately they are too long for the Ninja carb. Ed is going to dyno a stock V-spec with the Innovative Design venturi's and is going to email me the dyno graphs and flow bench stats next week.
We tested several headers on all the pipes we dynoed on the Ninjas. The old style Novarossi short headers with two bends in it was no different than the new rounded style headers. They both flowed the same on the flow bench and the dyno graphs could be laid on top of one another. We also tested the Werks Medium Conical header on the 9853. After tuning in the motor to perfection, the results confirmed our torque and horsepower guess-timate. We only wish we could have had a short conical header to test as well. The medium conical boosted low-end torque and peak Hp quite a bit, but the top-end suffered with the long center line on the medium conical.
This graph is the Novarossi 9853 pipe with the short Novarossi header versus with the Werks medium conical header:
Finally we broke in the Ninja .28 on the break in bench. The break in was painless and it didn't take long to get the motor tuned. We took a quick measurement of the bore and stroke on the .28 and it comes out to .2728 cubic inches. After all the testing was said and done, we still liked the Novarossi 9853 or MSR1005 on the Ninja .28 the best. As for the Ninja 2053 pipe & header on the .28 Ninja, it just simply does not flow enough CFM's for the large displacement of the .28 Ninja. On the .21 Ninja, it makes less power than the 9853, 9886 or MSR1005, but can be used with a smaller restrictor to get even further fuel mileage.
This graph is of the .21 Ninja versus the .28 Ninja:
Hope you all enjoy the data
Tony P.
The first thing I wanted to test was the TKO ceramics I installed after the runs we took back in November. I ran the motor twice since then to get the balls seated in the races. The dyno graph is pretty impressive how the ceramic engine bearings improved the torque and power.
This graph is of the Ninja B01 .21 off-road engine with the stock bearings versus with a front & rear TKO ceramic bearing:
We then tested a ton of pipes & header combos. The Novarossi 9853 pipe and short Novarossi header still yielded the best torque curve. The MSR1005 pipe and header still yielded the most peak Hp, but the bottom end was a bit softer and the top-end fell off quicker. The MSR1005 should yield a little bit better run time though due to how the pipe & header flows. The tune on the motor was 1/8 turn leaner for optimum performance with the MSR1005 compared to the Novarossi 9853. When I last ran my MBX5T at HobbyHut last year, I was getting 12 minutes of run time with the Ninja 2053 pipe and Ninja long header. Two weekends ago I ran the MSR1005 pipe & header on the .21 Ninja and was still getting a bit over 11 minutes run time in the truck. The power though was off the hook. I was running down most trucks down the front straight and had to let off the throttle on many occasions. The truck would also come out of the corners and would just rip!
The Novarossi 9886 worked great on both of the Ninjas as well, but there was a slight studder in power in the very upper RPM range of both motors (more so on the .21). It wouldn't stop me from running the 9886 on the Ninja's if I already had one, but wouldn't be my top choice if buying a new pipe. We spent a lot of time trying to tune that studder out, but couldn't. The biggest problem is if the tune is off, that studder gets worse.
We also tested several carburetor venturi's (restrictors) on both Ninja motors. The Ninja B01 that I've been running and tested with comes with a 7.0mm carb restrictor. The carb restrictor by itself flows much more than any other OEM carb restrictor. After putting the carb, motor and pipes on the flow bench we calculated the maximum RPM's the .21 Ninja could turn and the 7.0mm restrictor is right on the money. Interestingly enough the new Ninja .28 comes with a 7.0mm carb restrictor as well and couldn't be a more perfect match on the .28 Ninja. Considering the .28 Novarossi comes with a 9mm restrictor, we hope the .28 Ninja gets better run times than the fuel thirsty .28 Nova's. We also tested Ralph Walter's Innovative Design carb restrictors on the flow bench as well. These restrictors flow better than any OEM carb restrictor out there, but unfortunately they are too long for the Ninja carb. Ed is going to dyno a stock V-spec with the Innovative Design venturi's and is going to email me the dyno graphs and flow bench stats next week.
We tested several headers on all the pipes we dynoed on the Ninjas. The old style Novarossi short headers with two bends in it was no different than the new rounded style headers. They both flowed the same on the flow bench and the dyno graphs could be laid on top of one another. We also tested the Werks Medium Conical header on the 9853. After tuning in the motor to perfection, the results confirmed our torque and horsepower guess-timate. We only wish we could have had a short conical header to test as well. The medium conical boosted low-end torque and peak Hp quite a bit, but the top-end suffered with the long center line on the medium conical.
This graph is the Novarossi 9853 pipe with the short Novarossi header versus with the Werks medium conical header:
Finally we broke in the Ninja .28 on the break in bench. The break in was painless and it didn't take long to get the motor tuned. We took a quick measurement of the bore and stroke on the .28 and it comes out to .2728 cubic inches. After all the testing was said and done, we still liked the Novarossi 9853 or MSR1005 on the Ninja .28 the best. As for the Ninja 2053 pipe & header on the .28 Ninja, it just simply does not flow enough CFM's for the large displacement of the .28 Ninja. On the .21 Ninja, it makes less power than the 9853, 9886 or MSR1005, but can be used with a smaller restrictor to get even further fuel mileage.
This graph is of the .21 Ninja versus the .28 Ninja:
Hope you all enjoy the data
Tony P.
05-13-2007, 12:40 AM
#2
Good stuff
05-14-2007, 10:13 AM
#5
Tony,
Do you have any tips on how to get to the 11 minute runtime mark? I have the ninja 21 and 28 both with the 2053 pipe and long header and both with the stock carb restrictors. At my first race last, I estimated that I could get about 7 minutes out of both engines based on how much gas I had left after the 5 minute qualifiers.
In the main, the 28 ran out of gas twice at the 6 minute mark. I didn't have time to check the temperature that closely, so I may have been a little rich, but the engine had more than enough power at the settings I had and I could easily make the triples without even getting to full throttle.
I haven't tried smaller carb restrictors, but can you use a smaller one without sacrificing too much power? Did you figure out how much you can extend runtime with a smaller one? What temperature was your engine at when you ran 11 or 12 minutes?
Thanks.
Do you have any tips on how to get to the 11 minute runtime mark? I have the ninja 21 and 28 both with the 2053 pipe and long header and both with the stock carb restrictors. At my first race last, I estimated that I could get about 7 minutes out of both engines based on how much gas I had left after the 5 minute qualifiers.
In the main, the 28 ran out of gas twice at the 6 minute mark. I didn't have time to check the temperature that closely, so I may have been a little rich, but the engine had more than enough power at the settings I had and I could easily make the triples without even getting to full throttle.
I haven't tried smaller carb restrictors, but can you use a smaller one without sacrificing too much power? Did you figure out how much you can extend runtime with a smaller one? What temperature was your engine at when you ran 11 or 12 minutes?
Thanks.
05-14-2007, 06:47 PM
#6
Hi Tony,
I haven't ran the .28 yet in my MBX5T so I can't comment on run times for it.
But in my MBX5T I ran the .21 Ninja with both the Ninja 2053 pipe and long Ninja header and then I tried the MSR1005 pipe & header. I could get 12 minutes run time with the Ninja pipe and 11 to 11-1/2 minutes with the MSR pipe. That was with the plug inside the tank removed and a long Mugen fuel filter.
I run 30% Maxy's fuel, Ninja #6 plug, stock 7mm venturi and added one thin copper shim (0.004") to increase the deck height. LSN = 5.5 turns out, HSN = 4 turns out. When looking at the needles both are at the 1 o'clock position.
When you set up your throttle EPA, remove the air cleaner and watch the carb open. Limit the EPA to where the carb is fully open to the 7mm restrictor. The carb will open about another millimeter, but it is a waste. Once the EPA is set, re-install the air cleaner and make note of the EPA setting on your radio. Re-adjust if you ever move the motor or linkages around. Also make sure the clutch is working properly. an improperly tuned clutch can cost you lots of run time. I run the Mugen standard alum shoes with 1.0 spring setup on my Mugen flywheel with Mugen clutch bell. Overall gearing is stock at 16.28:1. I don't tune to a temp gun but anytime someone temped my motor it was always in that 230-250* range.
Hope that helps.
I haven't ran the .28 yet in my MBX5T so I can't comment on run times for it.
But in my MBX5T I ran the .21 Ninja with both the Ninja 2053 pipe and long Ninja header and then I tried the MSR1005 pipe & header. I could get 12 minutes run time with the Ninja pipe and 11 to 11-1/2 minutes with the MSR pipe. That was with the plug inside the tank removed and a long Mugen fuel filter.
I run 30% Maxy's fuel, Ninja #6 plug, stock 7mm venturi and added one thin copper shim (0.004") to increase the deck height. LSN = 5.5 turns out, HSN = 4 turns out. When looking at the needles both are at the 1 o'clock position.
When you set up your throttle EPA, remove the air cleaner and watch the carb open. Limit the EPA to where the carb is fully open to the 7mm restrictor. The carb will open about another millimeter, but it is a waste. Once the EPA is set, re-install the air cleaner and make note of the EPA setting on your radio. Re-adjust if you ever move the motor or linkages around. Also make sure the clutch is working properly. an improperly tuned clutch can cost you lots of run time. I run the Mugen standard alum shoes with 1.0 spring setup on my Mugen flywheel with Mugen clutch bell. Overall gearing is stock at 16.28:1. I don't tune to a temp gun but anytime someone temped my motor it was always in that 230-250* range.
Hope that helps.
Last edited by TonysScrews; 05-14-2007 at 07:00 PM.
05-14-2007, 07:16 PM
#7
Tech Apprentice
i dont understand when the manufactures say that there engines produce alot of hp.
for example lrp says there .28 truggy engine produces 3.95 hp. but when it was dynoed in xtreme rc, its corr hp was only like 1.5hp.
anything that would help me understand this better??
for example lrp says there .28 truggy engine produces 3.95 hp. but when it was dynoed in xtreme rc, its corr hp was only like 1.5hp.
anything that would help me understand this better??
05-14-2007, 07:23 PM
#8
Tech Fanatic
Originally Posted by TH691
i dont understand when the manufactures say that there engines produce alot of hp.
for example lrp says there .28 truggy engine produces 3.95 hp. but when it was dynoed in xtreme rc, its corr hp was only like 1.5hp.
anything that would help me understand this better??
for example lrp says there .28 truggy engine produces 3.95 hp. but when it was dynoed in xtreme rc, its corr hp was only like 1.5hp.
anything that would help me understand this better??
It's almost like the old car stereo days before RMS ratings for wattage. 100 watts RMS (Root Mean Square) was equivalent to 1200 watts peak music power.
From a marketing stand point to uneducated consumers what looks better? 'Nuf said?
05-14-2007, 07:29 PM
#9
Tech Master
iTrader: (24)
My son was getting about 7.5 minutes with the .28 last weekend at 150 cc's but it is still tight enough that you cannot turn it over by hand, it stops before TDC. We are hoping to get it to the 8-9 minute mark when fully broken in.
The engine is a beast, really strong throughout, top to bottom.
Anyone try the Sportwerks 053 pipe, Jp3 or RB 2045 on it ?
The engine is a beast, really strong throughout, top to bottom.
Anyone try the Sportwerks 053 pipe, Jp3 or RB 2045 on it ?
05-15-2007, 12:19 AM
#10
Tech Apprentice
Great research and write up!!! Thanks for sharing!!
05-15-2007, 01:02 PM
#11
Tech Rookie
Tony,
Ijust bought a Ninja 28. was wondering if you had the needle settings from the dyno run. would appreciate the help.
Ijust bought a Ninja 28. was wondering if you had the needle settings from the dyno run. would appreciate the help.
