24LikesROAR Nats - One lined tracks
06-26-2019, 11:32 AM
#16
Suspended
Thread Starter
I would like to see those complaining about the event, build and run a track, then host Nationals. Its sad that most of the complaints come from people that did not attend, are not ROAR members, do nothing for the hobby or lives outside of the ROAR block. Yes ROAR have issues, but this is what we have. To make drastic changes, IFMAR would have to be involved as well, I think. Yes Nats are Nats, but for the top 20 racers, its IFMAR Worlds Qualifying as well. Everyone screams "Off Road" but just a few years ago the racers wanted a higher grip surface. Since then, the industry have went that way, from tracks, to chassis, to tires. Now people want to B!t(h and complain. How about build a track or better volunteer to help ROAR.
I thought this years Nats was one of the better ones. The track was hard to drive (dont care why), and competition was close all weekend. No one just checked out and lapped the field 9 times. This is how a National Championship should be from a competition stand point.
I thought this years Nats was one of the better ones. The track was hard to drive (dont care why), and competition was close all weekend. No one just checked out and lapped the field 9 times. This is how a National Championship should be from a competition stand point.
A national championship should never be decided by 4-5 days of practice(incl qual) and not racing anyone, then relying on 1 semi. point system, multiple tracks, prove who really is the best at the time.
Spencer won the last indoor race that was similar to this a few years ago? didn't phend also tq?
These kind of tracks have their place, but not a one stop shop for a championship - current format doesnt allow for a TV quality broadcast because practice and qual for days is boring.
thats my thoughts on it.
06-26-2019, 02:15 PM
#17
There's a person really striving for a better system/race, one like other motorsports have, where you gain points. but everyone is too soft and get "offended online by facts and truth" this man speaks(yet they still follow him??)
A national championship should never be decided by 4-5 days of practice(incl qual) and not racing anyone, then relying on 1 semi. point system, multiple tracks, prove who really is the best at the time.
Spencer won the last indoor race that was similar to this a few years ago? didn't phend also tq?
These kind of tracks have their place, but not a one stop shop for a championship - current format doesnt allow for a TV quality broadcast because practice and qual for days is boring.
thats my thoughts on it.
A national championship should never be decided by 4-5 days of practice(incl qual) and not racing anyone, then relying on 1 semi. point system, multiple tracks, prove who really is the best at the time.
Spencer won the last indoor race that was similar to this a few years ago? didn't phend also tq?
These kind of tracks have their place, but not a one stop shop for a championship - current format doesnt allow for a TV quality broadcast because practice and qual for days is boring.
thats my thoughts on it.
06-26-2019, 06:03 PM
#18
Suspended
Thread Starter
I get you. This is RC racing where grown men plays with expensive toys. This will NEVER be considered "motorsports". Never. Better Race system, ok. When there is a series in the US where it is affordable for all the manufactures to take part, then maybe, it would spark more interest. Right now, despite the work RCGP has put in, This industry still goes through IFMAR, period. That is what all the companies work for, that is what the manufactures strive for, National and World Champions. This industry does not have "motorsports" money. I disagree on the National Championship part. Again, this is NOT an industry that has unlimited money. right now with ROAR rules, you will not get 4 tracks a year to hold a National Championship Series. I love when folks say like F1.. GTFOH. RC racing will NEVER be on TV in the US, at lease not on a major high quality broadcast channel. Hell it took years for the US to get F1 regularly.
RCGP is cheaper and an investment for companys. race teams work like f1.... HB and Sworkz are pouring money in and 1 round of rcgp was far more interesting than the whole roar event - the pros have been asking for something over multiple races for ages.
It's time for change.
06-27-2019, 12:54 PM
#19
Tech Master
06-27-2019, 01:21 PM
#20
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
Posts: 17,621
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Just need that high profile person willing to risk their money. Drone racing has the backing of the CEO of Home Depot.
https://www.theringer.com/sports/201...-racing-league
while RC racing at lower level did have professional race driver Scott Speed owning a place. He closed it up early this year.
https://www.theringer.com/sports/201...-racing-league
while RC racing at lower level did have professional race driver Scott Speed owning a place. He closed it up early this year.
06-27-2019, 02:16 PM
#21
I disagree. RC racing is motorsports. Motorsports in miniature. Even this years Fuel Nats winner, Spencer RIVKIN, refers to himself as a racing driver in interviews. I fully agree with that and support it.
Too often, we as RC'ers refer to our cars and trucks as toys. It is a secret handshake we all know and has been prevalent in online conversation for years. Problem is, the general public takes us literally and dismisses our hobby exactly as we describe it, toys. This needs a serious turn-around in order to better represent the hobby as serious miniature motorsports. ROAR tries. They just are not staffed to do it. Perhaps if they were to offer a tiered membership that would accept members at a lower price to race a the local level and to just in general support ROAR efforts to qualify a Worlds Team might be an option worth looking at?
This years Fuel Nats was a good race. One-liner or not, racers will find a way to win. Were it available to more of the general public, more would see it as true miniature motorsports. Alas, this is a stick-and-ball nation. Anything else gets kicked to the curb. Fortunately, streaming vids are available to us that seek it out. Too bad so many others are missing out on what we know as a good thing.
Respectfully, AC
Too often, we as RC'ers refer to our cars and trucks as toys. It is a secret handshake we all know and has been prevalent in online conversation for years. Problem is, the general public takes us literally and dismisses our hobby exactly as we describe it, toys. This needs a serious turn-around in order to better represent the hobby as serious miniature motorsports. ROAR tries. They just are not staffed to do it. Perhaps if they were to offer a tiered membership that would accept members at a lower price to race a the local level and to just in general support ROAR efforts to qualify a Worlds Team might be an option worth looking at?
This years Fuel Nats was a good race. One-liner or not, racers will find a way to win. Were it available to more of the general public, more would see it as true miniature motorsports. Alas, this is a stick-and-ball nation. Anything else gets kicked to the curb. Fortunately, streaming vids are available to us that seek it out. Too bad so many others are missing out on what we know as a good thing.
Respectfully, AC
06-27-2019, 02:28 PM
#22
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
Posts: 17,621
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Unless there is actual risk of physical injuries, or death from crash, I’m sorry RC drivers are not race car drivers.
06-27-2019, 03:02 PM
#23
Billy, I am 75 years old and have been in RC for twenty years. Also have raced motorcycles, crewed sprint cars and top fuel dragsters, and raced SCCA autocross. Trust me, risk of physical injury or death from a crash was neither a motivator nor deterrent. Oh, and yeah, marshaled 1/8 nitro races as a competitor. Perhaps that fits your criteria, as risk from physical injuries, but I never saw it that way as a RC race driver. It was all about the competition, the camaraderie, a podium finish and, heck, just the racing. Be it one-line, two-line or no-line.
Cheers and regards, AC
06-27-2019, 03:40 PM
#24
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
Posts: 17,621
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
An interesting criteria for race car drivers, Billy. No, my friend, in my humble opinion, there is a lot more to racing and race car drivers than that. Take, for example, competition and competitive drive. Or, perhaps, the will to win. Or, heck, even just plain old bragging rights. All trump risk or death as an incentive to enter motorsports. RC racing is a great place for nurturing those. Aspiring to a drive at the Nats as a stepping stone to the Worlds is the natural path for both. ROAR provides that to the RC motorsports community, once a RC race car driver gets to that point in their career.
Billy, I am 75 years old and have been in RC for twenty years. Also have raced motorcycles, crewed sprint cars and top fuel dragsters, and raced SCCA autocross. Trust me, risk of physical injury or death from a crash was neither a motivator nor deterrent. Oh, and yeah, marshaled 1/8 nitro races as a competitor. Perhaps that fits your criteria, as risk from physical injuries, but I never saw it that way as a RC race driver. It was all about the competition, the camaraderie, a podium finish and, heck, just the racing. Be it one-line, two-line or no-line.
Cheers and regards, AC
Billy, I am 75 years old and have been in RC for twenty years. Also have raced motorcycles, crewed sprint cars and top fuel dragsters, and raced SCCA autocross. Trust me, risk of physical injury or death from a crash was neither a motivator nor deterrent. Oh, and yeah, marshaled 1/8 nitro races as a competitor. Perhaps that fits your criteria, as risk from physical injuries, but I never saw it that way as a RC race driver. It was all about the competition, the camaraderie, a podium finish and, heck, just the racing. Be it one-line, two-line or no-line.
Cheers and regards, AC
Death and injury is a part of Motorsport. The death risk is definitely far lower then even 20 years ago. And of course those involved don’t look at it a positive or negative. It’s just there. Sir Jackie Stewart walked away from F1 after watching so many friends die. Hell, NASCAR popularity was partly based on “waiting for the big one”.
I’ve read something’s about how over in Europe RC racing is treated similar to real racing. And it’s caused some issues for younger drivers. I don’t know the full details. But XRay used to have a young female driver, I’m blanking on her name right now. But a conflict with age and being paid, was also trying to get into full size racing, has ended her racing till turns 18.
I’m a fringe local driver. I’m still hesitant to call myself a racer yet as I’ve only raced with one group. 1/10 scale on road and MiniZ. Unfortunately we’ve had 3 tracks close since December. A new off road has opened, and a couple clubs are getting up and running. But it’s a long road for them.
06-29-2019, 04:15 PM
#25
Tech Master
I used to read it often here. People would try to compare RC racing to real racing. But without the risks, there just no way to compare them. Yes, the top level drivers are unbelievably skilled. And it does require the mental focus similar to real drivers. But that’s were it stops for me. Even ESports racing has setup that give player actual physical feedback. Maybe a crash means drivers get pushed off driver stand ( kidding), nice 5+ foot fall to simulate that lawn dart crash.
Death and injury is a part of Motorsport. The death risk is definitely far lower then even 20 years ago. And of course those involved don’t look at it a positive or negative. It’s just there. Sir Jackie Stewart walked away from F1 after watching so many friends die. Hell, NASCAR popularity was partly based on “waiting for the big one”.
I’ve read something’s about how over in Europe RC racing is treated similar to real racing. And it’s caused some issues for younger drivers. I don’t know the full details. But XRay used to have a young female driver, I’m blanking on her name right now. But a conflict with age and being paid, was also trying to get into full size racing, has ended her racing till turns 18.
I’m a fringe local driver. I’m still hesitant to call myself a racer yet as I’ve only raced with one group. 1/10 scale on road and MiniZ. Unfortunately we’ve had 3 tracks close since December. A new off road has opened, and a couple clubs are getting up and running. But it’s a long road for them.
06-29-2019, 04:26 PM
#26
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
Posts: 17,621
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Found it.
the petition on social media stating, "No idea if this will make a difference or not but one of my loyal supporters has started a petition to try and overturn the decision of my national federation. Take a look, and if you can sign it and maybe share it, it will be greatly appreciated."
In the petition's description Steinwagner says, "Malin Karlsen is a 13yo from Norway who was competing at the top of the sport of remote controlled cars! She is one of the brightest up and comers in the sport! She was the first ever female driver to qualify for and compete in the prestigious invitation only class at the reedy race of champions as well as the first female driver to make the A-Final in the Euro off road series and the EFRA 1/10 scale European championship! Her and he father have even built her herown race track! All at her young age! Due to her going racing outside of her home country of Norway the Norwegian motorsports federation (www.nmfsport.no) Banned her from ever getting a liscense to race permanently! Im hoping to get this petition going in hoped that her fans signatures might make the NMF reconsider the lifetime ban and issue her a license sometime in the future!
(Please guys lets not be too critical of the NMF it is there rule and their right to enforce it. Lets not bad mouth them and make them dig their heals in on the subject) Thanks for all the support so far!"
https://www.liverc.com/news/announce...the_racetrack/
06-29-2019, 10:31 PM
#27
I knew part of their name. I’d been told here that she has to stop for a reason. I’ll try to find those post. I don’t pretend to have any understanding of RC racing overseas. Outside of it being very different from States. She’s one of the few names I know. I’ve linked to a number of her videos when I’ve seen post about getting daughters into hobby.
Found it.
the petition on social media stating, "No idea if this will make a difference or not but one of my loyal supporters has started a petition to try and overturn the decision of my national federation. Take a look, and if you can sign it and maybe share it, it will be greatly appreciated."
In the petition's description Steinwagner says, "Malin Karlsen is a 13yo from Norway who was competing at the top of the sport of remote controlled cars! She is one of the brightest up and comers in the sport! She was the first ever female driver to qualify for and compete in the prestigious invitation only class at the reedy race of champions as well as the first female driver to make the A-Final in the Euro off road series and the EFRA 1/10 scale European championship! Her and he father have even built her herown race track! All at her young age! Due to her going racing outside of her home country of Norway the Norwegian motorsports federation (www.nmfsport.no) Banned her from ever getting a liscense to race permanently! Im hoping to get this petition going in hoped that her fans signatures might make the NMF reconsider the lifetime ban and issue her a license sometime in the future!
(Please guys lets not be too critical of the NMF it is there rule and their right to enforce it. Lets not bad mouth them and make them dig their heals in on the subject) Thanks for all the support so far!"
https://www.liverc.com/news/announce...the_racetrack/
07-07-2019, 07:10 AM
#28
Tech Rookie
Should never be held there? WHAT?!? Just because you don't like the surface? Have you ever paid The Dirt to come build you a track? Have thunderstorms roll in afterwards watch all your money wash away. Rebuild to just watch another thunderstorm wash it away again? Have you ever shelled out the money for anything like that? I would bet if you had, you would have put a roof over your track, if you had the money, to keep something like that from happening again. Thornhill is an amazing track with people that put a TON of work in for people to drive toy cars. It will never pay for itself and people like you and JQ over here bashing it.
can't wait for you or JQ to build something "better".............
can't wait for you or JQ to build something "better".............
Will, why don't you and Chris invest in just asphalting the Thornhill track just pave that whole sum bitch. And run your foam tires with traction additive. Liquid wrench for off road dirt racing smh. Wth happened real off road dirt racing? Tracks that get dusty, loose and have character? I get what your saying about covering a track from being rained out, but guess what, that's just part of it. The enjoyment of it is having to really drive to beat another driver, because the track is challenging and your car and shocks need to be on point to get through the rough sections of the track. Not one line to rule them all. Which leads to dirty racing and folks driving right over each other cause there desperate. I've seen nothing drivers having altercations after a qualifier or main cause they drove right over each other trying to hit the same line. Instead of the track being rough and having imperfections which could've completely seperated them, because one drivers car maybe handled that section better than the other guy's car.Whats the point of tire manufacturer's making tires with knobbies anymore? On Road with jumps great what got me into RC. Guess I should've asked my Dad for an Team Associated RC12E instead of my RC 10 and said I can run this RC12E on the dirt right ?
07-26-2019, 01:46 PM
#29
I've been to a few tracks this year and i keep noticing on these "too perfect" tracks - creating a one line track and as seen makes racing pretty boring and just carnage on passing.
What is everyone's thought on this? Personally rough tracks makes racing so much better, DNC's track usally breaks up a bit and it shows everyone loves this race.
What is everyone's thought on this? Personally rough tracks makes racing so much better, DNC's track usally breaks up a bit and it shows everyone loves this race.
My viewpoint is often quite simple. I had track owners trying to apologize that there were imperfections in the track simply because they know what the majority want, perfection. My response is always and will always be, "I'm sorry, I thought this was offroad racing. Offroad racing is supposed to have those imperfections. Let it rut up a bit and develop some lows and highs in the lane. It makes the drivers work for their position more, think more about their lines and alternative lines, pay attention to their suspension setup to get the balance of jump handling and bump handling. I love it." In my opinion, a track can hardly ever be too blown out for racing, given that the spots that contain hazards that will literally rip the arms and axles off a car are dealt with of course. Remember guys, we are racing offroad where we have the suspension capable of dealing with imperfections for a reason. If you are racing on something as smooth as a paved surface with no imperfections and high grip, whats the difference between setting up some corner cones in a parking lot with some well built jumps in between the corners? Not that I am opposed to a smooth dirt surface, but its nice to mix it up every now and then when the track becomes "less than desirable."
07-26-2019, 10:27 PM
#30
Suspended
Thread Starter
I'm kind of in line with the OP. I've noticed the shared thought of what "separates the good tracks from the bad" is mostly the surface condition. If it is smooth with high bite, people tend to regard it as an excellent track, where the rough tracks where you have to work for traction are regarded as poor tracks. Just what I have noticed from racers that I've been around after I returned to racing this year.
My viewpoint is often quite simple. I had track owners trying to apologize that there were imperfections in the track simply because they know what the majority want, perfection. My response is always and will always be, "I'm sorry, I thought this was offroad racing. Offroad racing is supposed to have those imperfections. Let it rut up a bit and develop some lows and highs in the lane. It makes the drivers work for their position more, think more about their lines and alternative lines, pay attention to their suspension setup to get the balance of jump handling and bump handling. I love it." In my opinion, a track can hardly ever be too blown out for racing, given that the spots that contain hazards that will literally rip the arms and axles off a car are dealt with of course. Remember guys, we are racing offroad where we have the suspension capable of dealing with imperfections for a reason. If you are racing on something as smooth as a paved surface with no imperfections and high grip, whats the difference between setting up some corner cones in a parking lot with some well built jumps in between the corners? Not that I am opposed to a smooth dirt surface, but its nice to mix it up every now and then when the track becomes "less than desirable."
My viewpoint is often quite simple. I had track owners trying to apologize that there were imperfections in the track simply because they know what the majority want, perfection. My response is always and will always be, "I'm sorry, I thought this was offroad racing. Offroad racing is supposed to have those imperfections. Let it rut up a bit and develop some lows and highs in the lane. It makes the drivers work for their position more, think more about their lines and alternative lines, pay attention to their suspension setup to get the balance of jump handling and bump handling. I love it." In my opinion, a track can hardly ever be too blown out for racing, given that the spots that contain hazards that will literally rip the arms and axles off a car are dealt with of course. Remember guys, we are racing offroad where we have the suspension capable of dealing with imperfections for a reason. If you are racing on something as smooth as a paved surface with no imperfections and high grip, whats the difference between setting up some corner cones in a parking lot with some well built jumps in between the corners? Not that I am opposed to a smooth dirt surface, but its nice to mix it up every now and then when the track becomes "less than desirable."
Lets get into that actually, control tires - personally i think they are "god's best gift" it takes the tire game out of it and makes it more like real racing where setup is more important and isnt this why we keep buying the top of the line cars?
Last edited by iplaygames; 07-27-2019 at 12:43 PM.