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Dissecting buggies and their performance.

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Dissecting buggies and their performance.

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Old 11-10-2017, 04:07 PM
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Default Dissecting buggies and their performance.

One of my biggest interests is this, why X car handles that way. With the knowledge gathered over the years and with the help of hundreds of racers and engineers I will share with the World which one is the least compromised car regarding performance. Some brands will be roasted to a crisp but in the end what I want is everyone to step up their game.

The parameters are:
-suspension geometry;
-durability;
-parts flex and design;
-drive train efficiency;
-how easy it is to work on them,
-tuning parts,
-overall support, both technical and availability.

First hand experience will be shared, some won't like it as normal but you know, add your experience and your arguments if you want to provide good info.
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Old 11-11-2017, 08:17 AM
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breaking out the popcorn for this one. Subscribed!
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Old 11-11-2017, 08:28 AM
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This will be the shitstorm to end all shitstorms.

I cant wait.
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:56 PM
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MBX7R
Best -suspension geometry
Best -durability
Best -parts flex and design
Best -drive train efficiency
Best -how easy it is to work on them

I answered your question, Just joking. I'm interested in reading this thread, I don't have enough knowledge to add anything educational to this thread.

Best- tuning parts,
-overall support, both technical and availability.
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Old 11-11-2017, 05:51 PM
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Phew... what a day! Travelled to a far away track almost half country for the penultimate big race of the year. Atmosphere was great, it's more of a get together now that the Championship is over. First one to arrive at the track and the last to pull the car off the track.

First contact with the TLR 4.0, XB8'16 if not mistaken and JQ BE. The TLR 4.0 was the most consistent (driver is an old fox), my personal BE driven by a top racer was the fastest one single lap (can be improved) and a newbie with a second hand XB8,which I helped a tiny bit.

The TLR 4.0 was very good on track (shocks 99%), the owner said it is a calm and balanced car (I can attest it), far more than the his previous Mugen (reputation of aggressive car), the TLR did mostly right except the common misconception of what to change when the track is smooth and fast but low grip (not the thread to give secrets away, shared on plenty others and my fb page, check sig). On the same token, if the current owner made the TLR behave very well that means the MBX7R is crap on that department (LOL, seriously can someone make it consistent track to track? I know two things now that I laid my dirty paws on one). Think there was a TLR 3.0 that left earlier because the car was so good it doesn't need to practice (sarcasm, the driving was bad and so was the car, a good driver can make a good car work and a better car shine). An Sworkz was there, don't what version it was, looked average-to-good, very stable and easy to drive. The HB (possibly the 815) looked as good as the TLR 4.0 but flipped somewhat easy on the section made of concrete sidewalk pavers. Then the newbie with the XB8'16 if not mistaken, he drove average but the car was like ride height adjusters on the maximum and a bit crooked, I set the ride height and went through the radio settings (4PK, newbie treating himself well...), passed the radio back to him and told him to see how it was. Driver confidence was up, too much actually because he didn't slowed down for the kitchen floor tile section and hoped to have grip with tall pin tires (and worn), the car was balanced on the air but other than that the car lacked balance and the optimized steering jam of the Xray kicked in. What the heck man .

Now my personal JQ Black Edition, August base setup is very good and other than a front roll bar change and lowering the upper links the car started to be blistering fast but no consistent because of other issues (wrong shock setup, needs more damping). Was cool to see most old people remember that the JQ used to break a lot (I have one of the first 2011 batch, never broke) and be called the cheap Kyosho. Speaking of Kyosho, everyone loves that brand! They were all "the car is stupid expensive, and the optionals are the most expensive in the history of ever" yet they had more money on their cars than a Kyosho... Must be envy, I have three Infernos was lucky to get out of there alive I guess.

That sums up my experience in this track (end of national championship get together). I'm too tired, hopefully tomorrow night will rate the cars, don't hurry to grab popcorn


Originally Posted by racingnewb View Post
MBX7R
Best -suspension geometry
Best -durability
Best -parts flex and design
Best -drive train efficiency
Best -how easy it is to work on them

I answered your question, Just joking. I'm interested in reading this thread, I don't have enough knowledge to add anything educational to this thread.

Best- tuning parts,
-overall support, both technical and availability.
I was on the fence about if you were kidding or not, I would give the most durable car prize to the AE
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Old 11-11-2017, 06:29 PM
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Kyosho tki4
Hot bodies d817
Serpent srx8 evo
Mugen mbx7r
Sworkz s35-3
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Old 11-12-2017, 05:09 PM
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Today let's talk about the Kyosho MP9.

Suspension geometry.
The basic design has been working well since the MP-5 or the Burns. Since the first MP9 version little has changed, when most if not all competitors made big changes. This buggy is known to work well on almost all tracks with little to no setup changes as the balance is better than most (that doesn't make it good). What started to set this buggy apart were the shocks, people believing that sticking them on their buggies fixed everything wrong with them.

Durability.
Front arms had a tendency to break where the front part of the arm meet the hinge pin hole. Aluminium parts wore faster than comparable other cars. Other than that very good car.

Parts flex and design.
The suspension parts have little flex, on the other hand the chassis is tasked with coping with lengthwise loads leading to issues with clutch bell hitting the chassis, or the chassis hitting the clutch bell. Design is tops, nothing is for looks only, function>form.

Drive train efficiency.
Most copied drivetrain design ever. Not only it works well and is durable, the ratio is "right". That is because the moving parts rotating clockwise are in a balance with the parts rotating anti-clockwise (not going to say what they are, use your head ).

How easy it is to work on them.
Not tops but not bad, you can take a diff without disassembling that entire end except the centre diff. Not difficult to reach the centre axles to mate them on the centre diff, radiotray is one of the best!

Tuning parts.
The most needed ones are pistons, softer rear springs, thicker front and thinner rear roll bars and the +2mm front end parts. Nothing else needed. Beats most cars out of the box, what more do you want?

Overall support, both technical and availability.
Available every good shop, distributor network is good. Technical support consists of parroting "Run Cody's 2010 WC setup".

One thing i want to address is that stamped chassis and other aluminium parts of minor importance is good, makes it cheaper but if that saving isn't passed onto the costumer and claims of high quality car thrown around then shame on you Kyosho!
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:16 PM
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Each car has their own handling characteristics. Most of them are durable enough. Some perform different than others on certain types of tracks. I look at the pro guys, they push these cars harder than most of us. There are some brands you see in the main all the time, and some every blue moon. I say when looking for a car, look at the local support. Whats ran there, what do hobbyshops carry. Asking people you will get bias answers.
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:05 PM
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The cars vary in how they need to be driven to deliver best lap times. I’m much more consistent with a Kyosho than a Mugen because the kyosho can be driven easier and still be fast. Other people drive the Mugen better because it likes to be pushed harder. If you are fighting the car you won’t do well.
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by token View Post
Each car has their own handling characteristics. Most of them are durable enough. Some perform different than others on certain types of tracks. I look at the pro guys, they push these cars harder than most of us. There are some brands you see in the main all the time, and some every blue moon. I say when looking for a car, look at the local support. Whats ran there, what do hobbyshops carry. Asking people you will get bias answers.
Pros are a terrible source of most information though. They run what they are paid to run, they are paid by the industry leaders, doesnt mean they have the best car. For example, the agama could be the best car EVER! but because they are tiny and cannot afford for Maifield or Tessman etc etc to drive their car and bring their name onto the world stage, they dont get the title of best car ever.

Also, they could do anything to their cars and we wouldnt know, changing geometries, whatever they do to their shocks, engines etc etc and wouldnt/couldnt tell us, so again, poor source of information.
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:12 AM
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Gentlemen please, I know what I'm doing. I don't rely no more on marketing talk.

Today it's the Mugen MBX7R turn.

Suspension geometry.
Front is fine the way it is but the rear has a big issue, while the arm length and motion ratios are close the way the upper arms are set up cause lots of issues on the rear.

Durability.
Concerns of front arms breaking at the hinge pin hole, talking with guys on track the issue was non acknowledged, the mugen is a tank.

Parts flex and design.
Function>form. Arms bow.

Drive train efficiency.
Better but not top.

How easy it is to work on them.
Average but a bit worse than others on the radio tray, no more split centre diff!

Tuning parts.
Many but people are willing to pay and complain about the Kyosho optionals, HTC diffs, springs, roll bars, weights,etc...

Overall support, both technical and availability.
Common brand but lacks setup development, I think Robert Batlle is the only one pushing forward.

Verdict.
When the rear is pushed outside of the narrow range it works the car is worse than others, taking a toll on the front too. Good car for the shops.
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Old 11-15-2017, 02:20 AM
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whats your opinion on the hb? Its won two worlds in a row with different drivers and tracks
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Old 11-15-2017, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Pugg View Post
whats your opinion on the hb? Its won two worlds in a row with different drivers and tracks
There were two at the track being driven by experienced drivers (at least one was sponsored I guess), in a couple hours will do a review
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Old 11-15-2017, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth View Post
There were two at the track being driven by experienced drivers (at least one was sponsored I guess), in a couple hours will do a review
Yes i drive one currently. My first car was an sworkz and after 2 races im doing 3 seconds per lap faster. Its actually a heavier car too so im trying to lighten. I wonder what you think of it cause ive only ever driven an sworkz and hb
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Old 11-15-2017, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Pugg View Post
Yes i drive one currently. My first car was an sworkz and after 2 races im doing 3 seconds per lap faster. Its actually a heavier car too so im trying to lighten. I wonder what you think of it cause ive only ever driven an sworkz and hb
Will talk about the Sworkz too. Onto the HB D81x.

Suspension geometry.
Same old C-hub up front and a good amount of adjustability on the front. The rear end was from good to bad during the iterations but it is very adjustable, except where it matters. Won't say the issue with it, T. Deguzman knows what he's doing I guess. looked as good as the TLR on track except it traction rolled when pushed (*hint*).

Durability.
Very tough car, maybe the most. Slight issue with the soft arms is that forces aren't dissipated quickly (breaking an arm) so the force is transferred to other parts (uprights,hinge pins,etc...) causing further issues like elongated hinge pin holes.

Parts flex and design.
Plastic parts are engineered to flex lots,which isn't that good and the carbon reinforcements are a very welcomed feature. Good design throughout, usual from HB. Went away from unequal chassis plate to a symmetric one.

Drive train efficiency.
From the d812 high internal ratio to the Kyosho ratio. Every brand that tried the high gearing went to the 43/13 or similar... Pins wore more than others that's the feedback I have.

How easy it is to work on them.
With the long screws instead of hinge pins it's more complicated than others, other than standard affair.

Tuning parts.
Many!

Overall support, both technical and availability.
Not as good as others. Can't really say what's the problem I see as much HB cars for sale as Mugen but not as much as TLR, at the track I think I saw two. Here I think it's more expensive than the Kyosho and less shops carry parts (really less shops, I can't seem to find one which has stock).

*Edit* Found yesterday that the HB that I have seen at the track has won the race. During practice he was almost as good as the TLR and THE Car, curious about how it went during the race, I thought the TLR had better pace going by live timing.
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Last edited by 30Tooth; 11-26-2017 at 05:10 PM.
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