Rule changes and classes for 2010
#181
Well, if Dynamic setups mean so little, then people should have no problems setting them to standard setups then, shouldn't they? If that's the case, why are we bothering to argue for/against it? Set 'em to standard and end of discussion.
#182
If everyone is playing by the rules as written and intended, where's the *itch? If there is cheating going on, then perform tech and dq the individual.
Let the USVTA organization tweak their rules for 2010 before you jump in and start wanting to change things like Iceman said.
Also, Thomas has repeated something often heard and true. If you don't race with faster people, you'll never get faster yourself.
Infernal Stone brought up zapped Slash motors. You can zap all you want but if you can't drive it, it doesn't do you any good. People think everyone running Slashes at Seans are illegal and can't be beat. Why don't you come give it a try. Lee had to borrow a motor last time and still ran up front swapping the lead 5 or 6 times with the eventual winner. Stop crying and bring them out and race.
Let the USVTA organization tweak their rules for 2010 before you jump in and start wanting to change things like Iceman said.
Also, Thomas has repeated something often heard and true. If you don't race with faster people, you'll never get faster yourself.
Infernal Stone brought up zapped Slash motors. You can zap all you want but if you can't drive it, it doesn't do you any good. People think everyone running Slashes at Seans are illegal and can't be beat. Why don't you come give it a try. Lee had to borrow a motor last time and still ran up front swapping the lead 5 or 6 times with the eventual winner. Stop crying and bring them out and race.
#183
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (21)
People, I am done with the talk of VTA.
When you understand that it's not the top speed down the straight that is beating you, then maybe we can talk about what we really need to do to keep the class running.
Our tracks we build have 1 straight that a dynamic timing speedo will be useful. ONE. I can get about 2 tenths a lap just from that.
Infield speed because my car is set up correctly and lines I drive are correct is why people are getting smoked.
I'll even give you a better example. My car is much faster on a straight than Q's VTA is. Know what? He will beat me by at least a lap. Know why? He sets up better than me, his car handles better than mine, and he drives faster lines around the infield than me. That is where I lose to Q.
17.5 4cell / black can 6cell / 27turn 4cell will not keep up with 21.5 Lipo even if the dynamic timing doesn't exist. All things (driver skill / set up) being equal.
I have read the rules from the USVTA website. Nothing I have done to my car has violated the rules. I have the SAME equipment in my car since we started it this year. New motor cause the first one went up in smoke... but other than that... same stuff. Mathematically I can prove that dynamic speedos are not beating everyone by what they think they are. I fail to see the issue at hand everyone is seeing.
What I see is the choices available to use are somewhat equal, but not equal. What I see is technology being blamed for other issues.
Tell my why we used to run Sportsman IGT and Expert IGT?
Tell me why when we have the entries we run Sportsman 1/10th nitro and Expert 1/10th nitro.
In both of those classes... the equipment is the same. Same size motor... same size fuel cell... same size car... same body type... Why do we have a seperation of class?
Because you have people just learning set up / driving lines and all that. You put some of the Sportsman drivers with the Expert nitro... they get blitzed. I did. I remember it. It wasn't fun... So I drove Sportsman. Take Ronnie Ewing as an example. Drove Sportsman all last year. Moved up this year to Expert, learned alot about setup and driving lines. Now he is very very competitive in the Expert nitro. Did he get a Warp Factor 7 engine? No.
If people are getting hammered by 4 laps, why are we not separating the class? Is it more fun to come on the boards and debate? Let's penalize the ones that HAVEN'T BROKEN OR BENT ANY RULES.
Read that again. Haven't broken or bent any rules. People are complaining that there is no door to door racing. There is. The ones that are 4 laps down are door to door with the others that are 4 laps down. The ones 4 laps ahead are door to door with the others that are 4 laps ahead.
That is nothing more than a division of skill / setup. Race them together for more fun on the track like the 24hours of LeMans or whatever that race is where there are multiple classes on the track at the same time. Set up guidelines where you have a division so people can compete with others on their level.
A racer will never get any faster unless he / she races with someone that is faster than they are.
Set a goal. Work toward it. If your car is ill handling... Why? What is it doing? How do you go about solving it? If I lose to John Jolley by 2 laps this week... my goal next week is to get my car handling better, drive some better lines, and if I do lose... make it closer. Then I can see my progress.
What happens if we dyno cars to 24mph, turn off dynamic timing, and people still lose by 4 laps?
What then?
I'm done with this part of the discussion.
When you understand that it's not the top speed down the straight that is beating you, then maybe we can talk about what we really need to do to keep the class running.
Our tracks we build have 1 straight that a dynamic timing speedo will be useful. ONE. I can get about 2 tenths a lap just from that.
Infield speed because my car is set up correctly and lines I drive are correct is why people are getting smoked.
I'll even give you a better example. My car is much faster on a straight than Q's VTA is. Know what? He will beat me by at least a lap. Know why? He sets up better than me, his car handles better than mine, and he drives faster lines around the infield than me. That is where I lose to Q.
17.5 4cell / black can 6cell / 27turn 4cell will not keep up with 21.5 Lipo even if the dynamic timing doesn't exist. All things (driver skill / set up) being equal.
I have read the rules from the USVTA website. Nothing I have done to my car has violated the rules. I have the SAME equipment in my car since we started it this year. New motor cause the first one went up in smoke... but other than that... same stuff. Mathematically I can prove that dynamic speedos are not beating everyone by what they think they are. I fail to see the issue at hand everyone is seeing.
What I see is the choices available to use are somewhat equal, but not equal. What I see is technology being blamed for other issues.
Tell my why we used to run Sportsman IGT and Expert IGT?
Tell me why when we have the entries we run Sportsman 1/10th nitro and Expert 1/10th nitro.
In both of those classes... the equipment is the same. Same size motor... same size fuel cell... same size car... same body type... Why do we have a seperation of class?
Because you have people just learning set up / driving lines and all that. You put some of the Sportsman drivers with the Expert nitro... they get blitzed. I did. I remember it. It wasn't fun... So I drove Sportsman. Take Ronnie Ewing as an example. Drove Sportsman all last year. Moved up this year to Expert, learned alot about setup and driving lines. Now he is very very competitive in the Expert nitro. Did he get a Warp Factor 7 engine? No.
If people are getting hammered by 4 laps, why are we not separating the class? Is it more fun to come on the boards and debate? Let's penalize the ones that HAVEN'T BROKEN OR BENT ANY RULES.
Read that again. Haven't broken or bent any rules. People are complaining that there is no door to door racing. There is. The ones that are 4 laps down are door to door with the others that are 4 laps down. The ones 4 laps ahead are door to door with the others that are 4 laps ahead.
That is nothing more than a division of skill / setup. Race them together for more fun on the track like the 24hours of LeMans or whatever that race is where there are multiple classes on the track at the same time. Set up guidelines where you have a division so people can compete with others on their level.
A racer will never get any faster unless he / she races with someone that is faster than they are.
Set a goal. Work toward it. If your car is ill handling... Why? What is it doing? How do you go about solving it? If I lose to John Jolley by 2 laps this week... my goal next week is to get my car handling better, drive some better lines, and if I do lose... make it closer. Then I can see my progress.
What happens if we dyno cars to 24mph, turn off dynamic timing, and people still lose by 4 laps?
What then?
I'm done with this part of the discussion.
yep yall will still be cheating because if you don't use dynamic timing and you still win that bad you have to be....guess I am cheating because i have no problem keeping up with yall on the straight with a 3 YEAR OLD SECOND HAND TC SPEC ESC!!!
#184
If everyone is playing by the rules as written and intended, where's the *itch? If there is cheating going on, then perform tech and dq the individual.
Let the USVTA organization tweak their rules for 2010 before you jump in and start wanting to change things like Iceman said.
Also, Thomas has repeated something often heard and true. If you don't race with faster people, you'll never get faster yourself.
Infernal Stone brought up zapped Slash motors. You can zap all you want but if you can't drive it, it doesn't do you any good. People think everyone running Slashes at Seans are illegal and can't be beat. Why don't you come give it a try. Lee had to borrow a motor last time and still ran up front swapping the lead 5 or 6 times with the eventual winner. Stop crying and bring them out and race.
Let the USVTA organization tweak their rules for 2010 before you jump in and start wanting to change things like Iceman said.
Also, Thomas has repeated something often heard and true. If you don't race with faster people, you'll never get faster yourself.
Infernal Stone brought up zapped Slash motors. You can zap all you want but if you can't drive it, it doesn't do you any good. People think everyone running Slashes at Seans are illegal and can't be beat. Why don't you come give it a try. Lee had to borrow a motor last time and still ran up front swapping the lead 5 or 6 times with the eventual winner. Stop crying and bring them out and race.
#185
That's the arguable point here. One side is saying the dynamic escs are not as the rules intended (given all the effort to make various power systems roughly equal). Other side is saying that nothing saying anything against it, and the that effect is minimal, keeping things roughly equal anyways, as intended. I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that this blanket rule exists, and gives the tracks some control over how they handle situations that aren't specifically covered under the rules, such as a new esc that doesn't have a limitation that existed across the field when the rules were made.
One side thinks that the last rule on the page, the Spirit of VTA Rule, is being violated, the other does not. The problem is, the VTA guys don't seem to be making any rulings or statements on it at the time, so things are wonky. In all reality, it probably should be just be a non-issue until next season starts, or VTA says something. I mean, if VTA says nay to dynamic escs, it's already been suggested the what is likely the easiest means to tech the cars (the dyno)
#186
Tech Regular
iTrader: (10)
i would like to say I WAS WRONG after all this talk and talking to a lot of people i need to step up my racing game. so thank you to everyone that is trying to help i am working on a better car and will start to learn to drive better for now i will still run the black can motor but will step-up to a 21.5 very soon
#187
No worries Too Many .... If you need any help let me know on or off the track ...
#188
Tech Champion
iTrader: (2)
Q, I owe you and Melvin...so no bailing out...also what Ive seen is alot of good info..Ive pm'd Rob to look at this thread...Im pretty sure it will have alot of info for them for the 2010 season....
lets just have fun and run what we got and worry more about setup and driving..and if the fast guys decide to turn down the radio to keep the field eve than so be it....
also if any of the slower racers are having a hard time..let Justin or Q take it a lap or two and see if they can make your car turn better laps..or put on a clinic for newbies
lets just have fun and run what we got and worry more about setup and driving..and if the fast guys decide to turn down the radio to keep the field eve than so be it....
also if any of the slower racers are having a hard time..let Justin or Q take it a lap or two and see if they can make your car turn better laps..or put on a clinic for newbies
#189
Amen
#192
Infernal Stone brought up zapped Slash motors. You can zap all you want but if you can't drive it, it doesn't do you any good. People think everyone running Slashes at Seans are illegal and can't be beat. Why don't you come give it a try. Lee had to borrow a motor last time and still ran up front swapping the lead 5 or 6 times with the eventual winner. Stop crying and bring them out and race.
#193
Tech Initiate
#194