Losi aftershock to BL
05-17-2014, 02:20 PM
#16
Vid link didn't work...would like to see/hear one of your machines please.
As for attracting a crowd, I'm pretty sure anything with wheels that goes over 30 accomplishes that quite easily. And I completely agree that educating people on the hobby is a fulfilling thing to do, but they also thank me for saving the environment by "going green".
As for attracting a crowd, I'm pretty sure anything with wheels that goes over 30 accomplishes that quite easily. And I completely agree that educating people on the hobby is a fulfilling thing to do, but they also thank me for saving the environment by "going green".
05-17-2014, 08:38 PM
#17
The way it works in the real world is, you can zip back and forth real quick three or four times, then let it sit for fear of it going up in flames.. And I can keep filling up and running tank after tank after tank - no blown diffs, no fires.. And it sounds like a high-performance monster truck should - LOUD.
Most of the time people are having problems with electric its because of user error and if setup properly an electric setup will be 10 times more reliable than a nitro powered R/C As for the 1/5th scale pricing I will agree on that but its also a bigger rush than running smaller scales ..... Here is a link to the last race I was at last week .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54yd...yaMGEw9gekq5pA
05-18-2014, 12:26 AM
#18
LOL , where do you get this crap from ? Most of the time people are having problems with electric its because of user error and if setup properly an electric setup will be 10 times more reliable than a nitro powered R/C
As for the 1/5th scale pricing I will agree on that but its also a bigger rush than running smaller scales ..... Here is a link to the last race I was at last week .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54yd...yaMGEw9gekq5pA
Most of the time people are having problems with electric its because of user error and if setup properly an electric setup will be 10 times more reliable than a nitro powered R/C As for the 1/5th scale pricing I will agree on that but its also a bigger rush than running smaller scales ..... Here is a link to the last race I was at last week .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54yd...yaMGEw9gekq5pA
"10 times more reliable" - poppycock.. Maybe 10 times more reliable if the person running the nitro is incompetent and clueless. Which is precisely what most nitro-haters are/were with nitro. It's that that's most annoying with nitro-haters - IMO it's not nitro itself they hate so much as their own cluelessness and inability to figure it out. As if it were rocket science.
And no, the same thing does not apply in reverse. Because the whole point of electric is how it's supposed to be so much easier than nitro. But it isn't - that's my point.
Ultimately just run what you want afaic. But when nitro-haters spew all this garbage which is 1.) just false, and 2.) based on resentment at their own incompetence and cluelessness and failure to get their heads around a little nitro engine, then I think they should be called on it.
I prefer nitro because I like nitro, not because I hate electric. I don't "hate electric" anyway. I have two of them (MT4 G3 and SC8e) - and yes, I find them boring compared to nitro. I also find 8th scale E-offroad racing an incredibly boring abomination. (I guess you could say I "hate" it. It feels like a super-boring intrusion on a race-day - like a textbook illustration of entropy.., and makes for longer breaks between heats..) What I do hate is the anti-nitro BS that you hear from nitro-haters.
05-18-2014, 01:48 PM
#19
Wasn't this thread supposed to be about the options availible to the OP for converting his truck not a nitro vs electric debate? HerrSavage you're to blame for getting the thread off track with your own conclusions about brushless.
Converting a LST can be simple one stop shopping if you use the Losi kit and set it up as they intended. But IMO it kinda sucks that way with the battery tray out back making the front end light hurting handling (IMO) and making wheelies stupid easy. The Losi kit also keeps the 2 speed which isn't needed with brushless and just adds drivetrain stress when it shifts into 2nd gear. So unfortunately you need to drill a couple holes in the Losi battery tray to mount it up front and get the TDR single speed hub since Losi discontinued theirs.
The other option is using the TDR or RC-Monster motor mounts. Neither require drilling or any modification and are open to the air allowing better cooling and the option of installing a fan and/or heatsink unlike the Losi. Get the TDR single speed and then it's just a battery tray. RC-Monster has a buggy tray that fits any LST easily and again you only need to drill a few holes in the plastic tray. You could also use a tray from just about anything.
So far the only thing that couldn't be bolted directly on is the battery tray and all that required was 4 holes being drilled in the plastic tray. Not exactly major fabrication or rocket science. Even building your own motor mount can be done with a Dremel and/or drill, a hacksaw and file in about an hour.
Calling brushless finicky as far as gearing and such is a lack of knowledge on your part. I can figure out gearing for a particular vehicle, motor and Lipo voltage in a matter of minutes with no trial and error. How? From knowledge gleened from personal experience and forums, same as you tuning the clutch, pipe and other nitro experience you have. It's a skillset, a wildly different one from what you're used to but a skillset nonetheless.
Btw, everybody knows you can't charge a battery in the middle of a field. But I can charge my batteries in 20-30min tops, you take longer due to your poor choice of charger. You also don't need a Lipo checker, that's a gimmick. You charge and run, at the end put it on your decent charger and it'll tell you the voltages like a Lipo checker. I've been doing brushless for 6 or 7 years now and the only diff I've blown was a Traxxas Revo. They aren't the best to begin with, it was also used when I got it, I never maintained and I ran it on 6s with a very big motor for quite awhile before it blew. I run 5s and 6s exclusively and have never had an issue with a diff I've setup myself. Also not everyone lives in a country that's a pain to order from another country. Sorry if it costs you more or that you don't like waiting but that's not my problem and not everyone else is in the same boat as you.
Converting a LST can be simple one stop shopping if you use the Losi kit and set it up as they intended. But IMO it kinda sucks that way with the battery tray out back making the front end light hurting handling (IMO) and making wheelies stupid easy. The Losi kit also keeps the 2 speed which isn't needed with brushless and just adds drivetrain stress when it shifts into 2nd gear. So unfortunately you need to drill a couple holes in the Losi battery tray to mount it up front and get the TDR single speed hub since Losi discontinued theirs.
The other option is using the TDR or RC-Monster motor mounts. Neither require drilling or any modification and are open to the air allowing better cooling and the option of installing a fan and/or heatsink unlike the Losi. Get the TDR single speed and then it's just a battery tray. RC-Monster has a buggy tray that fits any LST easily and again you only need to drill a few holes in the plastic tray. You could also use a tray from just about anything.
So far the only thing that couldn't be bolted directly on is the battery tray and all that required was 4 holes being drilled in the plastic tray. Not exactly major fabrication or rocket science. Even building your own motor mount can be done with a Dremel and/or drill, a hacksaw and file in about an hour.
Calling brushless finicky as far as gearing and such is a lack of knowledge on your part. I can figure out gearing for a particular vehicle, motor and Lipo voltage in a matter of minutes with no trial and error. How? From knowledge gleened from personal experience and forums, same as you tuning the clutch, pipe and other nitro experience you have. It's a skillset, a wildly different one from what you're used to but a skillset nonetheless.
Btw, everybody knows you can't charge a battery in the middle of a field. But I can charge my batteries in 20-30min tops, you take longer due to your poor choice of charger. You also don't need a Lipo checker, that's a gimmick. You charge and run, at the end put it on your decent charger and it'll tell you the voltages like a Lipo checker. I've been doing brushless for 6 or 7 years now and the only diff I've blown was a Traxxas Revo. They aren't the best to begin with, it was also used when I got it, I never maintained and I ran it on 6s with a very big motor for quite awhile before it blew. I run 5s and 6s exclusively and have never had an issue with a diff I've setup myself. Also not everyone lives in a country that's a pain to order from another country. Sorry if it costs you more or that you don't like waiting but that's not my problem and not everyone else is in the same boat as you.
Last edited by Overdriven; 05-18-2014 at 02:05 PM.
05-18-2014, 10:18 PM
#20
You're right of course - you don't need all day to figure out brushless, and I don't need all day to figure out nitro. That's the point, pretty much. Once you learn nitro or brushless it's not "high maintenance" or difficult or any of that nonsense talk..
My point is just that when a newb (or someone more towards that end of the spectrum) walks in the room, a chorus rises up from the nitro-haters' side about how awful nitro supposedly is, and how mindlessly easy brushless supposedly is. One, this is based on their own cluelessness, incompetence and inexperience with nitro. And two, it's false. You have to learn and experiment with both to get to a point where it's second nature and easy. And three, well, I take offense and have just decided to be be blunt in response.
I do respect you though Overdriven for not being like the others and generally being even-tempered.
This is the internet though, not the Ameri-net. So blanket statements go both ways. There are a lot of people around the world who at one point or another have considered converting their LST - or have done it - and not every one of them can just order up a Dude's part on a whim. They're not exactly cheap, either. In any case, converting an LST is very far from "one-stop shopping" afaic. I was going to have to order from at least three different places, with costs adding up to hundreds of Euros.
I'm still very happy with my choice to get an MT4 G3 instead of converting an LST2. The latter still seems like an uncertain PIA to me(FOC, Dude's parts, battery tray, pinions, motor/ESC, and lipos - and whatever else pops up - potentially have to each be ordered from somewhere else...)*
And again - if I don't have my charger in a field then it's nice to have the lipo-checker. At least at this early stage for me with brushless. I live in a flat in the city, so a lipo fire is absolutely not an option, so I'm a bit paranoid about it. Maybe with experience that will subside. But from everything I hear, it shouldn't. I went to a meeting with some very experienced plane guys last year, and one of the most experienced guys there (I've seen him fly a big and very fast jet..) made a big deal about re-waking people up to the dangers and risks of lipo. This guy wasn't just spreading baseless fear - he knew what he was talking about. So yeah, maybe I don't really "need" a lipo checker, or lipo bags, or even to worry about anything at all. But at this stage I feel like I have to be extra careful.
*On further reflection, I would now be even less inclined to convert an LST than I was a year and a half ago when I decided for the MT4 G3, for the following reason: Brushless IS harder on the drivetrain - unless you're really babying it.. If you're not having diff issues on 6s, you're doing it wrong. I know how to shim diffs, and even with an LRP 28 the diffs end up taking a beating. I recently put in an LRP ZR.30X, and the front diff went out sooner than I was expecting (The diff was a couple years old.. So no complaints. But the added power of the .30 is apparent..) I replaced it with the last of my jennysrc XXL diffs I got for about 30-35 bucks apiece several years ago. So, all out of diffs now for my two trucks. The next blown diff will basically relegate truck #2 to hanging on the wall as a parts truck.
Anyway, 3-4 years ago you could get diffs cheap from jennysrc on ebay and elsewhere. No more. Losi had several different models - the LST2 AND the Aftershock, Raminator, etc.. ALL that is gone. The XXL-2 is coming out - but it's a big question mark afaic. It's going to be a high-dollar item, it's unproven, etc.. I.e. I don't expect to see them all over the place, with cheap diffs from chop shops again like it used to be. Uncertainty in that regard is what would make me think three times, not just twice, about converting an LST at the moment. Brushless is going to rape your drivetrain, and the parts are way more expensive and hard to find than they used to be. If you're in the States, OK, it might be a bit easier. But in the meantime there are also lots of other ways to spend your money and time....
My point is just that when a newb (or someone more towards that end of the spectrum) walks in the room, a chorus rises up from the nitro-haters' side about how awful nitro supposedly is, and how mindlessly easy brushless supposedly is. One, this is based on their own cluelessness, incompetence and inexperience with nitro. And two, it's false. You have to learn and experiment with both to get to a point where it's second nature and easy. And three, well, I take offense and have just decided to be be blunt in response.
I do respect you though Overdriven for not being like the others and generally being even-tempered.
This is the internet though, not the Ameri-net. So blanket statements go both ways. There are a lot of people around the world who at one point or another have considered converting their LST - or have done it - and not every one of them can just order up a Dude's part on a whim. They're not exactly cheap, either. In any case, converting an LST is very far from "one-stop shopping" afaic. I was going to have to order from at least three different places, with costs adding up to hundreds of Euros.
I'm still very happy with my choice to get an MT4 G3 instead of converting an LST2. The latter still seems like an uncertain PIA to me(FOC, Dude's parts, battery tray, pinions, motor/ESC, and lipos - and whatever else pops up - potentially have to each be ordered from somewhere else...)*
And again - if I don't have my charger in a field then it's nice to have the lipo-checker. At least at this early stage for me with brushless. I live in a flat in the city, so a lipo fire is absolutely not an option, so I'm a bit paranoid about it. Maybe with experience that will subside. But from everything I hear, it shouldn't. I went to a meeting with some very experienced plane guys last year, and one of the most experienced guys there (I've seen him fly a big and very fast jet..) made a big deal about re-waking people up to the dangers and risks of lipo. This guy wasn't just spreading baseless fear - he knew what he was talking about. So yeah, maybe I don't really "need" a lipo checker, or lipo bags, or even to worry about anything at all. But at this stage I feel like I have to be extra careful.
*On further reflection, I would now be even less inclined to convert an LST than I was a year and a half ago when I decided for the MT4 G3, for the following reason: Brushless IS harder on the drivetrain - unless you're really babying it.. If you're not having diff issues on 6s, you're doing it wrong. I know how to shim diffs, and even with an LRP 28 the diffs end up taking a beating. I recently put in an LRP ZR.30X, and the front diff went out sooner than I was expecting (The diff was a couple years old.. So no complaints. But the added power of the .30 is apparent..) I replaced it with the last of my jennysrc XXL diffs I got for about 30-35 bucks apiece several years ago. So, all out of diffs now for my two trucks. The next blown diff will basically relegate truck #2 to hanging on the wall as a parts truck.
Anyway, 3-4 years ago you could get diffs cheap from jennysrc on ebay and elsewhere. No more. Losi had several different models - the LST2 AND the Aftershock, Raminator, etc.. ALL that is gone. The XXL-2 is coming out - but it's a big question mark afaic. It's going to be a high-dollar item, it's unproven, etc.. I.e. I don't expect to see them all over the place, with cheap diffs from chop shops again like it used to be. Uncertainty in that regard is what would make me think three times, not just twice, about converting an LST at the moment. Brushless is going to rape your drivetrain, and the parts are way more expensive and hard to find than they used to be. If you're in the States, OK, it might be a bit easier. But in the meantime there are also lots of other ways to spend your money and time....
Last edited by Herrsavage; 05-18-2014 at 10:39 PM.
05-21-2014, 02:34 PM
#21
Oh man, this thread is so funny.... You guys gotta calm down, next we'll have an argument over nimhs versus lipos....
For the first time EVER I will agree with herrsavage .... Lipos are dangerous, very very dangerous. Now let me preface that statement by saying that the mistake was my fault and I am stupid for doing it, but I quick charged a 3s as a 4s this weekend and the results were almost enough to make me throw all my lipos away. First it went poof, then it went psssst, then it burst into a violent balls of flames. My fingers got burned and luckily, I was right next to it so I was able to get it out of the house before I lost everything.
So...my advice, don't ever quick charge a lipo without your balance port plugged in, that's the only way it can automatically detect the cells and eliminate what happened to me. Also get a lipo safe bag. Last and most importantly, never charge your battery in a vehicle. My poor mini8 is now a charred mess.
Otherwise, they're beastly powerful, but can be extremely dangerous if not treated with caution and respect. But just to be clear one more time....this was my fault.
Herrsavage, please post a video already. I wanna hear your nitros sing!!!
For the first time EVER I will agree with herrsavage .... Lipos are dangerous, very very dangerous. Now let me preface that statement by saying that the mistake was my fault and I am stupid for doing it, but I quick charged a 3s as a 4s this weekend and the results were almost enough to make me throw all my lipos away. First it went poof, then it went psssst, then it burst into a violent balls of flames. My fingers got burned and luckily, I was right next to it so I was able to get it out of the house before I lost everything.
So...my advice, don't ever quick charge a lipo without your balance port plugged in, that's the only way it can automatically detect the cells and eliminate what happened to me. Also get a lipo safe bag. Last and most importantly, never charge your battery in a vehicle. My poor mini8 is now a charred mess.
Otherwise, they're beastly powerful, but can be extremely dangerous if not treated with caution and respect. But just to be clear one more time....this was my fault.
Herrsavage, please post a video already. I wanna hear your nitros sing!!!
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