dracy69

iTrader: (5)

yea the lst is not a truggy....the revo is about the same stance just its a smaller truck with a smaller engine. and i like your sig straydog DW is awesome

straydog

I'f Traxass had the B.Blk out in the original Revo,it would have sold me over the L.S.T.
Shear size and power of the stock L.S.T. was a shut out for most
Revos in '04-'05. But..Now!...
I Realy like my old T-Maxx for all the reasons any Traxass owner will know.
But...With a center Diff the New Revo WILL be put in with the Stadium Truck,Unlimited M/T, Truggy class. Don't see it competitive?
with the L.S.P. , C.R.T. and Hellfire

Them Waltrips Rock! What a Life!

Horatio

This is the kind of post that highlights all the confusion surrounding MT classification.

Scale

For starters, virtually all current MT's can use the same bodies and wheels. Whilst certain MT's are built from '1:8th' buggy-style components, people need to remember what the term 'scale' actually means. The majority of truck bodies sold for MT's - across the board - are actually far smaller than 1:10th, regardless of the description. I've stated this many times already, but take this as an example; my 1:10th Mondena TC body is actually bigger than my Savage '1:8th' truck body. Conclusion: MT bodies have nothing to do with true MT scale. And even if you go by the overall dimensions of the chassis, say, a Savage compared to a Revo, the Savage is often described as 1:8th and the Revo 1:10th, even though the track width, wheelbase and length vary by only a few millimeters - certainly nowhere near the actual difference between true 1:8th and 1:10th scales.

You'll note that with ROAR regulations, 1/10th MT simply isn't specified anyway. According to ROAR, only 'Monster Truck' and '1/8th Truck' exist as far as classification, dimensional specs, tank capacity and engine size are concerned!

And with the BRCA, all the rules regarding Stock MT class, Modified MT Class and Outlaw Class (Truggy) are under the 1:10th Truck Section!!

Engine Size

With the current engine size ranging from .15 to .28 for out of the box MT's and aftermarket engines up to .32 for MT use, many people see a need for maximum engine size to be 'capped'. At this moment in time however, it would appear that engine size is only an issue if you live on the US side of the pond. In the UK, the BRCA don't regulate engine size, yet. In stock, you have to run what comes in the box - if that happened to be a .32 size engine, so be it.

With ROAR it seems .28 is the limit.

What's a Truggy?

According to ROAR: any machine where the engine is less than 1.5" from the ground (flat surface for the purposes of measuring) with the Truck's suspension fully compressed.

This is a very strange way of doing things - especially when you consider that 'spacers' could easily be mounted underneath the engine in your Jammin Truggy/LSP/SUT, effectively enabling any Truggy to race in the ROAR MT Class......

According to the BRCA: any Truck based on a 1:8th Rally Cross 'style' chassis, with either 2 speed or 3 diff style transmission.

Back On Topic....

The LST2 is a big block MT - it's one of the larger MT's on the market, with a decent radio, potent engine and hi/lo ratio multispeed transmission.

The Revo is a small block MT - it's one of the smaller MT's on the market with a unique laydown suspension and 2 speed transmission.

In the UK, they would certainly race in the same class - either Stock (provided they weren't using 40 size tyres) or Modified and I suspect in either case, the LST2 would be the stronger force on all but the tightest, slippery tracks, especially out of the box.

In the US - depending on what regulations are followed, they probably wouldn't be in the same class. But for general club racing, I know which one I'd choose to race with in the USA - even as a visiting Brit with no US racing experience!

LSTracerX

RC Pro Series:
Monster Truck

Scale - 1/10-1/8
Description:
To be a Monster Truck, the lowest point of the engine must sit at least 1.5" inches above the lowest point along the front-back centerline when compressed (usually the "skid plates").
To tech questionable MTs, remove the wheels, place MT on flat surface, compress the vehicle fully and a ruler (or 1.5" gauge) could be used vertically to measure the engine above the surface.
The following trucks are examples that fit within the above definition: T (and S) -Maxxes, Savage, MGT, Revo, TNX/TC and LST providing no modifications have been made to make the vehicle not meet the Monster Truck rules.


Minimum track width - - - - - - - - - - - - - Continuous 10 feet (same as 8th scales)
Wheel base - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Minimum 12 inches
Wheelbase -------------------------------------- Maximum 16 inches
Vehicle width maximum ---------- outside tire to outside tire ----------- 19.5 inches
Transmission - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Must be multi speed gear reduction. Diffs inside the transmission are allowed. Front and rear brakes allowed.
Engine - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - .12ci to .28c
Carb ------------------------------------------------- No size restriction. Carb must mount securely to the motor.
Exhaust ------------------------------------------- Pipes must meet the 85 decibel limit and have no movable parts in them.
Minimum weight - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - .12ci to .18ci Small blocks: 2750grams (~6 pounds), .15 to .28 Big blocks: 4300 grams (~9.5 pounds)
Maximum weight for the safety of turn marshals ------------------- 13 pounds 6 ounces
Fuel Tanks - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Single fuel tanks only.
Fuel Tank Volume Rule ----------------- Based on motor size. .20999 or less will be limited to a maximum of 150mililitres ------------- .21 and over is limited to a maximum of 175mililitres. This includes fuel line from tank to carb and filter(s).
Bodies - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Truck or SUV (no buggy or car bodies allowed )
Bumpers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Bumpers are optional. If used, must not extend further than 1" past the body on the front and rear.
Rear Spoiler/wing - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - A spoiler/wing is optional.
Skid Plates - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Skid Plates must not extend further than 1" past the body on the front and rear.
Wheels --------------------------------------------- Must be manufactured for Monster Trucks.
Wheel Mounting -------------------------------- Wheel mounting - Must be securely mounted at all times.
Tires - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Must be rubber only. No tires created for other vehicle types even if they fit the specifications will be allowed. Cutting or modifying the tread is allowed. Modifying the tire carcass by sectioning or narrowing is prohibited. Due to the varying sizes of wheels available for Monster Trucks it IS legal to trim the mounting bead of a tire produced for the Monster Truck class to make it fit a Monster Truck rim. Example - Bowtie on a REVO wheel. All tire measurements reference the carcass dimensions and does not include the tread depth or width.
Tire diameter- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Minimum - 5.1" (mounted)
Tire width - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Minimum - 2.75"(mounted)

Arena Truck Class

Scale - 1/10-1/8
Description:
Any Monster Truck that does not 100% meet the MONSTER TRUCK specifications while still meeting the below guidelines will run in the Arena Truck Class.

Minimum track width - - - - - - - - - - - - - Continuous 10 feet (same as 8th scales)
Wheel base - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Minimum 12 inches
Wheelbase -------------------------------------- Maximum 16 inches
Vehicle width maximum ---------- outside tire to outside tire ----------- 19.5 inches
Transmission/diff - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Single speed direct drive (1/8 buggy) style driveline only.
Engine - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - .12ci to .28ci
Carb ------------------------------------------------- No size restriction. Carb must mount securely to the motor.
Exhaust ------------------------------------------- Pipes must meet the 85 decibel limit and have no movable parts in them.
Minimum weight - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2750grams (~6 pounds)
Maximum weight for the safety of turn marshals ------------------- 13 pounds 6 ounces
Fuel Tanks - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Single fuel tanks only no more than 150mililitres. This includes fuel line from tank to carb and filter(s).
Bodies - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Truck or SUV (no buggy or car bodies allowed )
Bumpers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Bumpers are optional. If used, must not extend further than 1" past the body on the front and rear.
Rear Spoiler/Wing - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - A spoiler/wing is optional.
Skid Plates - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Skid Plates must not extend further than 1" past the body on the front and rear.
Wheels --------------------------------------------- Must be manufactured for Monster Trucks.
Wheel Mounting -------------------------------- Wheel mounting - Must be securely mounted at all times.
Tires - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Must be rubber only. No tires created for other vehicle types even if they fit the specifications will be allowed. Cutting or modifying the tread is allowed. Modifying the tire carcass by sectioning or narrowing is prohibited. Due to the varying sizes of wheels available for Monster Trucks it IS legal to trim the mounting bead of a tire produced for the Monster Truck class to make it fit a Monster Truck rim. Example - Bowtie on a REVO wheel. All tire measurements reference the carcass dimensions and does not include the tread depth or width.
Tire diameter- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Minimum - 4.55" (mounted)
Tire width - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Minimum - 2.25"(mounted)
The Panther LP is referenced for this size and will be the absolute smallest tire legal


ROAR

9.4.4.2 Definition: Monster Trucks are vehicles which measure a minimum of 1.5" inches from
the lowest point of the chassis to the lowest point of the engine along the front-back
centerline when compressed (usually the "skid plates"). This is verified by removing the
wheels, placing the vehicle on a flat surface, compressing the vehicle’s suspension fully,
and measuring from the flat surface to the underside of the engine using a 1.5" gauge or
caliper.
9.4.4.3 All Monster Trucks will race together unless sufficient entries warrant splitting the entrants
according to the specifications in the above table.
9.4.4.4 1/8 Trucks are all trucks which do not comply with rule 9.4.4.2 but satisfy the specifications
in the above table and the general Monster Truck rules.
9.4.4.5 Transmission: A maximum of three forward speeds is allowed. Vehicles with reversing
functions must be disabled for racing.
.
9.4.4.6 Drive configuration: Two or four wheel drive is allowed.
9.4.4.7 Tire rules
9.4.4.7.1 Tires must be rubber only and currently available to the public (i.e. in hobby shops at
least 2 weeks prior to the event) as a Monster Truck tire. No tires created for other
vehicle types even if they meet the specifications will be allowed.
62
9.4.4.7.2 Cutting or modifying the tread is allowed. Modifying the tire carcass is prohibited (i.e. no
"CUT" tires - whether they started as a Monster Truck tire or not). Trimming the
mounting bead of a production Monster Truck tire in order to fit a legal rim is allowed.
9.4.4.7.3 All tire measurements reference the carcass dimensions and do not include the tread
depth or width. LP tires are referenced for the minimum 1/8 Truck size and measure the
absolute minimal diameter allowable in the 1/8 Truck class.
9.4.4.8 Bodies: Truck or SUV only (no buggy or car bodies allowed).
9.4.4.9 Bumpers are optional. If used, they may not extend further than 1" past the body, front or
rear, and may not exceed the width across the outer edges if the tires to each side.
9.4.4.10The rear Spoiler/Wing is optional. It’s width may not exceed the width of the body. No part
of the Spoiler/wing may extend above the roofline of the body
9.4.4.11Skid Plates must not extend further than 1" past the body, front or rear. Metal skid plates
and chassis components are only allowed if safely attached and pose no danger to drivers,
pit persons, or turn marshals.
9.4.4.123 channel radios are permitted. Control is limited to throttle, brake, forward speed shifting,
and steering.

Note rule # 9.4.4.3 All MT's will run together unless there are enough racers in both classes to seperate them.

Sure seems to me like standard MT's are being forced out in favor of the truggies. Look at the Revo - soon to come with a center dif, extended chassis, brake bias and a bigger mill. No doubt I will have to buy a new truck if I want to race next year. The rules are eliminating a lot of stock trucks from competing. This doesn't seem like a good idea to me... after all, isn't part of the idea to attract new racers? That will be more difficult if someone has to modify their brand new, nearly out of the box truck in order to qualify. I'm not sure I like the direction this is going, but then again if there aren't going to be enough 'standard MT's' to run a class at a race then it won't matter anyway. I guess time will tell how this will play out. Either everyone will go truggy, or there will be enough MT'ers that the classes get better seperation.

Horatio

I totally agree with you! I'm hoping that the US way of classifying the MT section doesn't set the standard for us to copy over here in the UK.

Currently I believe the way the BRCA seperate the MT classes is far better.

MT's are totally different to 1:8th buggy based Truggies - it would be a shame to see the diversity washed away with a whole bunch of look-a-like truggies, purely because MT drivers are forced to race against them and subsequently lose interest in racing their machines.

Under ROAR rules, MT's are certainly being edged out. Whether this was an intentional move, or a mere oversight is difficult to say.

Rules tend to be draughted and voted on at big AGMs by people that have raced (or helped organise races) for a long time. With this in mind, perhaps this is why Truggies appear to have the rules written in their favour at present - either that or all the people that turned up and voted owned Truggies, preferring them to MT's!

What I will say is this though - at least ROAR have a full set of rules written out as a protocol. It's just a shame that they seem so deeply flawed.

US MT racers need to vote with their hands first, not their feet!

Omnicron

iTrader: (3)

Well incase some of you don't know this, Traxxas will be releasing on March 30 the Revo 3.3. The engine size is 3.3 =.20cid, the chassis will be 30mm longer and will come truely ready to race with p2 rockers. They will have a few upgrades aviable at that time, rear brake option and a center diff.

As far as the revo vrs. lst battle. At our local track revo's with the os18tz is always laying the smack down on the lst's. I see alot of lst's not finish the race due to broke cvd joints, blown diffs and broke a-arms just to name a few of the problems. I don't see many revo's not finish the race due to being broken. I am a proud owner of a revo and would never buy a lst just do the the fact they brake to damn easy.

stevenmichael

iTrader: (35)

with the LST i agree that was why i sold mine i could not handle the parts breakage,witht he new LST2 they have taken care of those issues and seem to have done a good job of i am hearing nothing of them having the problems that the first ones were.

the 3.3 is impressive and i cant wait till they drop the conversion for all the previous revo owners so they can come up to date

LSTracerX

Yes, we know about the Revo 3.3. In fact I mentioned that in my last post. The Revo is a great truck and it sounds like you should stick with it. However, I know of several clubs where the Revo gets hammered by the LST. It all depends on which truck the fast guys are driving. At the club level, it makes no difference which truck you have. The fast drivers win no matter what truck they or anyone else has. At the pro level, there aren't any factory team drivers other than Traxxas that enter into the major events in MT class. With the new RC Pro rules, that will continue to be the status quo.

snowboardgeek1

iTrader: (1)

Wow, this is the first time I've heard of stock LST's beating stock Revo's at the track. Must be some horrible racers with those Revo's. Over here in the west coast RC Pro Series, the Revo's dominate, day in and day out.

Its been proven, time and time again, a stock Revo is an awesome out of the box racer. Guys, lets not forget, its not about full on power. Its all about power to weight ratio, and this is where the Revo shines. The Revo is the lightest MONSTER truck out there. Combine that with an engine that revs over 35-40k RPMs, and you have a recipe for an awesome racer. Now, granted, it doesn't have the torque like those big block engines, it does rev much higher, which is why the 2.5R can still hang with the best big block engines.

Now, lets say you put a Revo with an RB 323TM, OS 18TM, or even an OS18TZ, have them race in the monster truck unlimited class, and what do you get? Same results...Revo on top.

I'm not being biased here. Its just pure facts. I've owned a Savage with a picc 26, and a Monster GT 4.6. Those monster trucks cannot compete with a Revo at the track. No way, no how. An LST...I've seen them at the track. Just another heavy truck. TNX...they're ok racers. Almost as light as a Revo. Savage...will never win a pro monster truck race, unless you put another 500-1000 in hopups. Monster GT...too big and too heavy. Awesome basher though.

But back to the original question. LST or Revo.

In my opinion, the LST has a very nice package to offer. The JR XS3 radio, is a nice "pro" style radio. Price, is within reason, since they do offer that nice radio.

The Revo, is technologically advanced compared to every monster truck out there. With its F1 inspired suspension, it just flat out rocks. Keep in mind, the Revo has the highest ground clearance out of any monster truck, which is perfect for you bashers. Now with the 3.3 coming out, to me, there's no choice. You have to go with a Revo. With a longer chassis, a bigger engine, and the option of adding a center diff, this proves that the Revo is still head of the monster truck class.

Best thing for you to do, is try out both trucks and see what you like. If you plan to bash, both trucks are great for bashing. If you plan to race competitively, go with a Revo.

LSTracerX

This is true, when 90% of the MT's that enter are Revo's, 90% of the top finishers will be Revos. But that has nothing to do with driver skill, its just a statistical fact.

No other factory MT drivers race RC Pro series EXCEPT Traxxas drivers. Your evidence is one sided and proves nothing, other than the best drivers race Revo's. If they all raced TNX's (Edit: or LST's!)that wouldn't make that truck better either. Unfortunately your logic is flawed.

Besides, to say that the suspension is 'inspired' by an on-road race vehicle is kinda wierd. I'd rather my suspension be inspired by an off roader like a Baja racer... but that's just me.

straydog

I've got to agree with the fact that it makes a difference who's driving
When Wayne Mah pull's the trigger on a Revo it's Bye Bye to my L.S.T.
I'ts Deffinatley the competetive choice for racers,
Traxass,very easy for a noob to use, tune, repair.Tons of hop-up's ,enuff that its suspicious.
All I had to chg on the L.S.T. was all the stuff Losi updated on the L.S.T.2
Could the Revo2 be the same result of customer prototyping
There was a regular mix of Losi and Revo in the top 3 around here last year.
The New Revo will probabley be unbeatable, at a club level in M/T.
But 3 diff's WILL put it in the unlimited/ truggy class-Good Luck!

snowboardgeek1

iTrader: (1)

LSTRacer, Stray - You guys put up some good points...ALTHOUGH,

At the RC Pro Series races, even with the intermediate classes, the top finishers were racing Revos. So my reasoning does have valid points. I race at Sun Valley raceway, which I admit, I haven't raced there much the past 6 months and I am an on-road racer at heart, but everytime I have checked out our monster truck races, there goes a Revo zipping by. Our top club racers win with Revo's, as well as our pro's, which many call Sun Valley their home track. So maybe in that regard, I am biased.

Now, I am not saying the LST is a bad truck. I am saying that a STOCK LST vs. a STOCK Revo racing at a track, the Revo will win everytime. I've seen it happen over and over again, with some high quality racers. Now, if we're comparing how the trucks would do in bashing situations, sorry to say, but I've heard some bad things about the old LST with reliability issues. The LST2 should have those problems alleviated, which is great.

I too was looking at an LST when I was deciding to buy a monster truck after my Savage, but the price was a little too steep, although it was warranted due to the LST having such a nice radio. I admit, the Revo's electronics are horrible and definitely need to be upgraded. But in my opinion, that's really all you have to upgrade to make it a top competitor at a track. You don't have to shed weight since its very light to begin with. The power of the 2.5R is all you really need in a tight, technical track. The suspension...dead on. Slap on some bowties and you'll have a truck that will hug corners all day long.

With the new 3.3 Revo coming out, now it has the power to go even faster. With the extended chassis, center diff, and the option of installing the adjustable arms, you'll have yourself a track terror. But at this point, its like comparing apples to oranges. To go back to what I was originally stating, stock Revo vs. stock LST at a track, the Revo wins.

Here's some pics of my Revo. Its not much, but it can compete with the best of them.

http://photobucket.com/albums/a379/s...1/Revo%20pics/

2DMaxLST

Of course Revo's dominate national events. If there are 200 entries and 180 of them are Revo's and the top sponsered trucks are Revo's who would you expect to fill out the winners bracket?? I have raced at 5 tracks in 2 states and everywhere I was at the LST1 and now the LST2 dominated.

LSTracerX

You keep saying how one truck is faster than the other out of the box... are you drag racing your offroaders??? Please explain how one truck is 'faster' than another on a track where the average speed is 12 mph??? The last time I checked, both trucks were more than capable of reaching those speeds, therefore any victory on the track comes down to driving skill only.

If person A buys a Revo and Person B buys something else (almost anything else), neither with any previous wheel time, then have them both practice the same amount for a month, I submit the race should be pretty close. Any difference in lap times will mostly come down to driver skill.

Its unfortunate that so many people buy into the hype of these trucks. They are all good, most are capable of winning races depending on driver skill.

Besides, if the Revo were really that dominant and not a statistical anomoly, Jacobsen and Junn never would have taken 1st and 2nd (against almost all Revos) with the TNX Pro in the 5th annual ProLine Maxx Challange.

Using RC Pro as an example doesn't work, for the reason 2D states. If 90% of the trucks were Associated MGT's, you could expect 90% of the top finishers to have an MGT. It doesn't make it a better truck.

I have watched the rule changes for both RC Pro and ROAR start to move towards favoring the truggies. I predict this whole situation will go away as fewer and fewer people race true MT's. The new Revo is as close as you can get to a truggy without actually being one. Next up, maybe even next year, you'll probably see a flat chassis on the Revo making it a full on truggy. Losi has a pre-production truggy, and many other companies have RTR or kit truggies. Part of the reason that you don't see any factory MT drivers other than Traxxas, is that manufacturers likely saw all this coming a couple years ago and decided to forego team drivers until the classes dust settled - so to speak. When there is only 1 MT class, I guess that you will see other factory team drivers.

Lastly, you have put yourself into the realm of all the rednecks who argue about Ford/Chevy (or insert your own favorite) being the best. You really should be embarrased!

snowboardgeek1

iTrader: (1)

I should be embarassed for stating my opinion? I respected your opinion and even said you stated valid points, yet you attack me saying I should be embarassed?

Read over what yourself and 2DMax has just said...if 90% of the racers are using Revo's, you could expect 90% of them to finish in the top ten. Doesn't that tell you something? To me, that means the Revo is a superior race truck and is well respected.

You actually think Traxxas sponsors the majority of the field? Are you saying that other companies aren't sending out their top racers to compete because they sell inferior monster trucks? I don't think so. There's 5 divisions in the RC Pro Series. Think about how many damn racers they would have to sponsor.

And what about those who race in the intermediate classes? Are you telling me they're all sponsored by Traxxas? I always thought of the intermediate classes as racers aspiring to be sponsored, which means, race what your bring.

I would suggest reading over my first and second posts. I was comparing a stock Revo vs. a stock LST, which is what original thread starter was looking for. I stated my opinion on what I felt was better. I'll leave it at that. If you love your LST, good for you.