Truth about vehicles smaller than 1/18th- They are all junk
02-01-2012, 10:17 AM
#1
Truth about vehicles smaller than 1/18th- They are all junk
[NOTE: After reading numerous replies to my initial post. I appears that my low opinion of these 1/24-1/28 scale vehicles was at odds with others experience. Apparently my bad luck with the mini-z's was not shared by most others, one person with a lot of experience with multiple mini-zs, over a prolonged period was just the opposite; Also either the reports of several initial problems with the 4wd Losi 1/24 have been fixed or that those having problems with them were in the minority I apologize for wasting peoples time with my apparently misplaced concerns about the general quality of these smaller vehicles]
If you take the time to read the forums here and at mini-racer.com, you will see one recurring pattern. People buy vehicles and use them in normal non-abusive manner and they break down. Sometimes DOA, sometimes on the first or second run, often they are not repairable by a new user or without special skills.
If you look at the typical Kyosho Mini-z. The wires used to connect things are tiny hair thin and easily break off. Their servo is this toy piece of junk not even in its own housing. If it starts glitching you are out of luck, unlike normal vehicles, you can not replace it with an aftermarket servo, attempting to repair it is almost impossible it has a potentiometer that easily can become misaligned and almost impossible to get right. They have been using this same failed horrible design for 10 years. For less 50 cents more they could have used a replaceable micro servo. Instead of using a simple AM or FM radio they chose to make it proprietary.
Their poorly designed cheap ESC requires the board level component replacement of chips to use more powerful motors, i.e. upgrades require soldering irons on little circuit boards
You may be one of the lucky ones your MR-02 may work for a months and months for you; but you are never more than a bump with another car or barrier from having a $150 door stop.
Second example is the recent Losi 1/24 scale offering. If you read the threads they are full of horror stories from people with glitching transmitters with 15 ft ranges, melted plastic pinions, transmissions with drag. Within the first week of their release people were posting videos showing how to dremmel the chassis to get them to turn properly.
As far as I know Losi has not made a single modification since these came out to address the multitude of flaws that come standard with these vehicles
Don't take my word for it read the threads on the various web forums.
Contrast, this with the various 1/18th scale vehicles. If you buy a X-ray M18, a Durtrax Vendetta, or an Associated RC18 and you don't run it into a brick wall at full speed or put a high powered brushless and a 3 cell lipo in it, if you run it in more or less stick configuration there is no reason you can not expect months and months of basically trouble free fun. There may be a few exceptions but you don't have an entire tier or scale of vehicles which are problematic out of the box. It takes no particular skill to replace any of the electronic components with after market parts, upgrades are easy to find and install.
Given the $110+ price tags for thes 1/28 and 1/24th vehicles their is just no excuse for the all the toy grade short cuts and cheapness of these designs.
Note: to those who will attack my negativity, of course if you like searching multiple web sites for remedies and how-tos and watching youtube videos working with, micro tools, Dremmels and soldering little tiny wires on little tiny circuit boards then these cars are wonderful but for the average person that wants to spend their time driving the cars not fixing them, I know of no vehicle less than 1/18th scale which is not more problem than it is worth.
If you take the time to read the forums here and at mini-racer.com, you will see one recurring pattern. People buy vehicles and use them in normal non-abusive manner and they break down. Sometimes DOA, sometimes on the first or second run, often they are not repairable by a new user or without special skills.
If you look at the typical Kyosho Mini-z. The wires used to connect things are tiny hair thin and easily break off. Their servo is this toy piece of junk not even in its own housing. If it starts glitching you are out of luck, unlike normal vehicles, you can not replace it with an aftermarket servo, attempting to repair it is almost impossible it has a potentiometer that easily can become misaligned and almost impossible to get right. They have been using this same failed horrible design for 10 years. For less 50 cents more they could have used a replaceable micro servo. Instead of using a simple AM or FM radio they chose to make it proprietary.
Their poorly designed cheap ESC requires the board level component replacement of chips to use more powerful motors, i.e. upgrades require soldering irons on little circuit boards
You may be one of the lucky ones your MR-02 may work for a months and months for you; but you are never more than a bump with another car or barrier from having a $150 door stop.
Second example is the recent Losi 1/24 scale offering. If you read the threads they are full of horror stories from people with glitching transmitters with 15 ft ranges, melted plastic pinions, transmissions with drag. Within the first week of their release people were posting videos showing how to dremmel the chassis to get them to turn properly.
As far as I know Losi has not made a single modification since these came out to address the multitude of flaws that come standard with these vehicles
Don't take my word for it read the threads on the various web forums.
Contrast, this with the various 1/18th scale vehicles. If you buy a X-ray M18, a Durtrax Vendetta, or an Associated RC18 and you don't run it into a brick wall at full speed or put a high powered brushless and a 3 cell lipo in it, if you run it in more or less stick configuration there is no reason you can not expect months and months of basically trouble free fun. There may be a few exceptions but you don't have an entire tier or scale of vehicles which are problematic out of the box. It takes no particular skill to replace any of the electronic components with after market parts, upgrades are easy to find and install.
Given the $110+ price tags for thes 1/28 and 1/24th vehicles their is just no excuse for the all the toy grade short cuts and cheapness of these designs.
Note: to those who will attack my negativity, of course if you like searching multiple web sites for remedies and how-tos and watching youtube videos working with, micro tools, Dremmels and soldering little tiny wires on little tiny circuit boards then these cars are wonderful but for the average person that wants to spend their time driving the cars not fixing them, I know of no vehicle less than 1/18th scale which is not more problem than it is worth.
Last edited by imjonah; 02-03-2012 at 08:02 AM. Reason: input from others on this forum
02-01-2012, 10:28 AM
#2
my losi micro crawler. No issues there. I take it to work all the time an set up courses on my tool box to run.
components are easily replaced and upgraded. wires are small on the motor, but they are right there. Although, I see no reason to replace the motor. And the servo is a real servo.
Seems to be a great little car to me.
components are easily replaced and upgraded. wires are small on the motor, but they are right there. Although, I see no reason to replace the motor. And the servo is a real servo.
Seems to be a great little car to me.
02-01-2012, 10:38 AM
#3
oops! please ignore
02-01-2012, 01:36 PM
#4
Im curious, this knowledge your sharing with us? Is this all personal experience? Or just focused observation?
I can tell you I recently got into the Mini-Z craze, and they are much better quality than Losi. As far as junk electronics? I had to laugh at that. You do understand the KO Propo designs the electronics for them? They are mini racing vehicles.
With the observation about the fet upgrades on the Mini-Z. If you read closer to who does that. It's people running in mod classes with aftermarket motors that were never designed for the stock fets. A casual or stock racer has no headache with that.
The only smaller scale car that has been a disappointment for me was the Micro-T. It never would center correctly.
Your also leaving out the Serpent, Greyscale, and WWS 1/24th pan cars.
FWIW, I do have 1/18th Xrays, and yes, they are excellent quality. But the Kyosho at least is not in any way "junk" compared to them. The mini-z is meant for a specific market/class. Also, since the new Mini-Z motorcycle will be 1/18th. Will that now be cool with you since its 1/18th?
I can tell you I recently got into the Mini-Z craze, and they are much better quality than Losi. As far as junk electronics? I had to laugh at that. You do understand the KO Propo designs the electronics for them? They are mini racing vehicles.
With the observation about the fet upgrades on the Mini-Z. If you read closer to who does that. It's people running in mod classes with aftermarket motors that were never designed for the stock fets. A casual or stock racer has no headache with that.
The only smaller scale car that has been a disappointment for me was the Micro-T. It never would center correctly.
Your also leaving out the Serpent, Greyscale, and WWS 1/24th pan cars.
FWIW, I do have 1/18th Xrays, and yes, they are excellent quality. But the Kyosho at least is not in any way "junk" compared to them. The mini-z is meant for a specific market/class. Also, since the new Mini-Z motorcycle will be 1/18th. Will that now be cool with you since its 1/18th?
02-01-2012, 02:21 PM
#5
I can vouch for the Micro SCT , true there are some "flaws" but all in all its a great little R/C with the option to go brushless without much hassle at all .
I have had mine brushless since the day they hit the shelves and its been pretty bulletproof , only thing I have hopped up was the motor mount .
Losi has just announced RTR brushless versions WITH a 2.4Ghz radio system ....
http://www.rccaraction.com/blog/2012...-course-truck/
For 149.00 I think thats a pretty good deal for a hobby grade micro R/C
I have had mine brushless since the day they hit the shelves and its been pretty bulletproof , only thing I have hopped up was the motor mount .
Losi has just announced RTR brushless versions WITH a 2.4Ghz radio system ....
http://www.rccaraction.com/blog/2012...-course-truck/
For 149.00 I think thats a pretty good deal for a hobby grade micro R/C
02-01-2012, 02:28 PM
#6
I can vouch for the Micro SCT , true there are some "flaws" but all in all its a great little R/C with the option to go brushless without much hassle at all .
I have had mine brushless since the day they hit the shelves and its been pretty bulletproof , only thing I have hopped up was the motor mount .
Losi has just announced RTR brushless versions WITH a 2.4Ghz radio system ....
http://www.rccaraction.com/blog/2012...-course-truck/
For 149.00 I think thats a pretty good deal for a hobby grade micro R/C
I have had mine brushless since the day they hit the shelves and its been pretty bulletproof , only thing I have hopped up was the motor mount .
Losi has just announced RTR brushless versions WITH a 2.4Ghz radio system ....
http://www.rccaraction.com/blog/2012...-course-truck/
For 149.00 I think thats a pretty good deal for a hobby grade micro R/C
02-01-2012, 02:44 PM
#7
Tech Adept
iTrader: (4)
What's up with the Kyosho trolling around here lately?
Kyosho's are expensive, but you certainly can't complain about quality. I'm still running a mini-z AWD that I bought sometime in 2006. Still works great, even the poor stock motor. I have vastly expanded my mini-z collection to include a mr03, buggy, dnano and I'm very satisfied with all of them.
I'd also like to address the built in servo issue you talk about. With the ASF boards (2.4), you're getting a high end digital servo that is faster than most top of the line hobby servos and is conifurable on your PC via the ICS usb connection. Do that with all but the most expensive 18th scale servo? Very inconvenient if something goes wrong, but that hasn't happened yet in my fleet.
The Losis are lower quality, but are still fun little rcs and offer better value than kyosho. What do you expect of an RTR that is half the price of the 18th scale KIT? I even think they're good for a spec racing class, they ease the barrier to entry and invite new blood into the hobby.
I also have an xray m18 running aftermarket carbon chassis and actively raced it for years.
Did you perhaps buy a used [abused] mini-z that might explain it's poor condition?
Kyosho's are expensive, but you certainly can't complain about quality. I'm still running a mini-z AWD that I bought sometime in 2006. Still works great, even the poor stock motor. I have vastly expanded my mini-z collection to include a mr03, buggy, dnano and I'm very satisfied with all of them.
I'd also like to address the built in servo issue you talk about. With the ASF boards (2.4), you're getting a high end digital servo that is faster than most top of the line hobby servos and is conifurable on your PC via the ICS usb connection. Do that with all but the most expensive 18th scale servo? Very inconvenient if something goes wrong, but that hasn't happened yet in my fleet.
The Losis are lower quality, but are still fun little rcs and offer better value than kyosho. What do you expect of an RTR that is half the price of the 18th scale KIT? I even think they're good for a spec racing class, they ease the barrier to entry and invite new blood into the hobby.
I also have an xray m18 running aftermarket carbon chassis and actively raced it for years.
Did you perhaps buy a used [abused] mini-z that might explain it's poor condition?
02-01-2012, 06:55 PM
#8
I still have my mr-01 when they first hit the shelves and it still works! I have a micro highroller and the dogs and stairs haven't broken it yet either...
02-02-2012, 07:15 AM
#9
Tech Addict
iTrader: (7)
I now have 2 Mini z Buggies... Love them - so much more than my Micro T,
Losi mini SCT, - the steering is extremely fast and precise.. The mini z buggies handle 20x better than the Losi micros. They also have motors avail to increase top speed from stock without FET upgrades. Yes the buggies are a bit more expensive.. BUT they are designed with actual racing in mind- the handling alone shows that. Put it on a tight track- you will be amazed at how it drives.
Losi mini SCT, - the steering is extremely fast and precise.. The mini z buggies handle 20x better than the Losi micros. They also have motors avail to increase top speed from stock without FET upgrades. Yes the buggies are a bit more expensive.. BUT they are designed with actual racing in mind- the handling alone shows that. Put it on a tight track- you will be amazed at how it drives.
02-02-2012, 01:42 PM
#10
OK, Maybe a bit overstated
1. yes, there are some more expensive ($200+) mini-Z vehicles out there which may be OK (I have not seen enough feedback on line to confirm one way or the other).
2. To those who like the Mini-Z, if I were to buy and MR-02 today and say ran it 2 or 3 hours week for a year, are you saying it would be very unlikely that I would have any problems with the electronics? Are you suggesting thatt hose problems, if they did occur, could be easily or cheaply fixed?
3. To those of you who like the new 1/24 Losi products. Are you saying if I bought one of those today I would not have any problem with the range on the transmitter, or the steering binding or the drive train melting gears i.e. Losi is now shipping revised units without those issues?
2. To those who like the Mini-Z, if I were to buy and MR-02 today and say ran it 2 or 3 hours week for a year, are you saying it would be very unlikely that I would have any problems with the electronics? Are you suggesting thatt hose problems, if they did occur, could be easily or cheaply fixed?
3. To those of you who like the new 1/24 Losi products. Are you saying if I bought one of those today I would not have any problem with the range on the transmitter, or the steering binding or the drive train melting gears i.e. Losi is now shipping revised units without those issues?
02-02-2012, 04:06 PM
#11
2. To those who like the Mini-Z, if I were to buy and MR-02 today and say ran it 2 or 3 hours week for a year, are you saying it would be very unlikely that I would have any problems with the electronics? Are you suggesting thatt hose problems, if they did occur, could be easily or cheaply fixed?
If you kept the car in shape, with the realization that things wear, and the motor will eventually have to be replaced as its brushed (this includes the servo motor, though that should last longer). 3. To those of you who like the new 1/24 Losi products. Are you saying if I bought one of those today I would not have any problem with the range on the transmitter, or the steering binding or the drive train melting gears i.e. Losi is now shipping revised units without those issues?
Not sure as it (2.4 version) uses the same transmitter as the Losi Mini 8 and that is reported to be POS with range. But then, it is a micro car, so how much range do you really need until the car isn't clear?
Isn't the steering binding fixed with like servo saver or steering arm upgrades? Don't know personally as I am making the plunge versus already having one (waited for the 2.4 version).
The drivetrain melting gears. To me personally thats why a person needs to dissassemble any RTR. Especially one with a non notched alignment system like the Losi. Those after market chassis like the Exotek or DP will help keep the gear mesh more inline. One reason I would think other than factory or user misalignment on mesh distance would cause the melting.... That, or using way too low a gear ratio with like a 3 cell lipo and NOT HAVING THE SLIPPER SET!
02-02-2012, 05:20 PM
#12
1. yes, there are some more expensive ($200+) mini-Z vehicles out there which may be OK (I have not seen enough feedback on line to confirm one way or the other).
2. To those who like the Mini-Z, if I were to buy and MR-02 today and say ran it 2 or 3 hours week for a year, are you saying it would be very unlikely that I would have any problems with the electronics? Are you suggesting thatt hose problems, if they did occur, could be easily or cheaply fixed?
2. To those who like the Mini-Z, if I were to buy and MR-02 today and say ran it 2 or 3 hours week for a year, are you saying it would be very unlikely that I would have any problems with the electronics? Are you suggesting thatt hose problems, if they did occur, could be easily or cheaply fixed?
3. To those of you who like the new 1/24 Losi products. Are you saying if I bought one of those today I would not have any problem with the range on the transmitter, or the steering binding or the drive train melting gears i.e. Losi is now shipping revised units without those issues?
Never had a problem with the steering binding either ? IDK where you got that from . The melting pinions well I can tell you that is mostly user error because the gear mesh is too tight .
Sometimes its gets set too tight from the factory and needs to be adjusted , but once its set there isnt a problem . I have had the same pinion in mine for quite a long time now and the only reason I changed it was the original had worn down .
You've been a member here since 2003 and you dont know RTR doesnt mean "Ready to Run" , it means "Ready to Rebuild" ?
02-02-2012, 06:52 PM
#13
Tech Regular
I thought I had left the hobby for good, I sold all of my 1/10 trucks around 2004 and did'nt think I would be back. A year ago my kids started asking for rc cars, so I looked into it and found the Losi Micro T. We bought 3 of them, one for me and one for both of the boys. I upgraded mine and eventually gave it to my nephew, but my boys still use theirs regularly and they have held up extremely well. I added ball bearings and threaded axles, but otherwise they are bone stock and still have the original diffs. My kids are very hard on them, and they are still going strong after a year of use (and abuse!). Since the Micro T, I have purchased and built several kits (XXX-T CR, FT T4, FT T4.1, RC18T2). In my case, the Micro T served two purposes. First, it provided my kids with hobby grade cars they could learn on. Secondly, the Micro T was the "gateway drug" that got me back into the hobby. As such, I disagree with the premise that all small scale cars are junk. Perhaps some are better than others, but my experience has been overwhelmingly positive. Small cars fill a niche market, and you can't expect them to give 1/10 scale performance. Appreciate them for what they are and they can be a positive experience.
02-02-2012, 07:33 PM
#14
Tech Initiate
You seem to base your opinion on others' posts. Remember that people are more likely to post are the people which have something wrong wit their product. I have multiple mini-z cars ( mr01, mr02, mr015, mr03, f1, overland, buggy, etc) and lots of other micros (micro-t, micro crawler, micro sct, etc) and have had no problems at all. In the case of my mr02, I have raced it 2-3 times a week for more than 2 years and had no problems....
I also own a bunch of minis (X-ray m18, m18t, nt18mt, losi mini high roller, etc.). I would say the quality of the mini z compare to the X-ray cars ( which is supposedly a "premium" brand) and the losi micro is on par with the losi minis.
Do not try to make your opinion sound as fact as you do not have the whole picture. I have to question you.... What is the point of this post?
I also own a bunch of minis (X-ray m18, m18t, nt18mt, losi mini high roller, etc.). I would say the quality of the mini z compare to the X-ray cars ( which is supposedly a "premium" brand) and the losi micro is on par with the losi minis.
Do not try to make your opinion sound as fact as you do not have the whole picture. I have to question you.... What is the point of this post?
02-02-2012, 08:08 PM
#15
Tech Initiate
[Rant]
Please do yourself and all of us here a favor!!
Save use the head ache of trying to explain/spoon feed you every thing we like about micro's...
Shut it.. Buy one... And go from there...
You want us to Guarantee things ... Please man .. get realistic!!!
... there is no guarantee on life... You get what you get ...
You take the knowledge held with in your Brain , Assuming, and make it better.....
yea for $110 you get a bunch of tiny molded plastic parts that fit together to make a vehicle..
I would LOVE to see you Make a Micro RC Car with $110 that is ANY where near as comparable.... [End Rant]
.........
I love my micro rally's yea i have two,
I love my micro dt.
from the factory .. well its stock... like any thing straight from the factory they were limited to their design.... Thew simple deduction, i devised a plan to make them better... TA,DA, and Micro Hobby is born!!
I cannot fit a race track in my back yard for my 1/10 Hornet, that is ANYWHERE NEAR as fun as my 1/24scale race track....I walk out my back door and RACE..
Also, Even thought it is made for 1/24 scale... i can drive my 1/18 scale mini's on it and it becomes a Very Technical Course, all skill.
I would have to go to a local RC track and Pay a membership fee.. month-y dues. etc. You have to wait for your Heat... Or your Class...
All I do is sweep the track every couple days... Shoot you can fit a micro RC track in your finished attack or basement .. Garage... It could take up minimal space and have Maximum FUN!!!
Peace love and micro-grease