MICRO CLASS/SCALE DESTINTIONS!!
 

Rather than clog up the thread for 1/18 Nationals, let's continue the discussion here.
The manufacturers of the off-road equipment, are not scaling the machines acurately or thinking ahead from a racing perspective. Most, if not all, are designed and built by asian companies. Bought by Duratrax, Kyosho, etc.
Their objective is to sell cars and trucks. Whether they are raced or not, has little to do with the bottom line. At least that is their thinking. They may be right, but the race potential of the 1/18 +- is very great. Track size requirements, bang for the buck, make this an attractive racing venue for racers and potential track owners. I am sure that they would be very different if they were designed and built by the companies with their name on the box.
Race directors have a tough job, trying to group these things into appropriate classes. It seems best to me, that they should be grouped in ways that reflects their respective performance potential and of course the spirit of the vehicle type. A Monster truck for instance. Was built to wow crouds with size, hp, noise, and the abillity to flatten normal vehicles! They tip over in any direction at the tip of a hat. Corner speed & agillity was not part of the design concept. T-Maxx, Clodbuster, Savage, etc. Reflect this spirit & design concept.
The current 1/8 stadium truck racing class(truggy), was born from so so 1/8 buggy drivers who sas an oportunity to 'cherry pick' the Monster truck class, by converting 1/8 buggies to trucks for the purpose of demoralizing T-Maxx owners! This was quickly recognized as unfair, and a new class was born; Unlimited Monster truck. Soon to be known (more accurately) as 1/8 Stadium Truck or Truggy.
Since, other than size, have little resemblance to Monster trucks, nor did they evolve from them.
When Monster trucks began to show up in Mini form. They were of the same 'ilk'. That is, they share the same spirit of design. Mini LST, Mini Goliath, etc.
Along comes Xray and Asc. putting an 'M' before the T and calling it a Monster! The same chassis with a different body and somewhat larger tires. Sorry, still a stadium truck.
At my track, I would not class a RC18t any different than an 18MT. I have had MLST owners come and race, but they soon tire of the tipping over, and convert to a different truck or buggy for racing. I would gladly allow them to continue racing in a class of similar vehicles. They usually prefer to keep there Monster for the intended purpose; that is to play around with it and have fun.
Anywho, it is time for dinner...
Feel free to post your thoughts...

micro cars
 

I dont think anyonw can argue that point Ron. the ST certainly isnt a monster truck and in fact at Indy Slots I asked if I could run my ST in the MT class and was told NO. I asked then whats the diff is from truck to monster truck and he told me tire size. At that point I was uninterested in even competeing in the MT class.

Pesky Asians!

Interesting thread. We've had issues at our local track as well. People claiming that the Vendetta should be in a seperate class from the Associateds because I win often with my Vendetta ST. Oddly that I bring out the Associated RC18 and run a whole lap faster then I do with the 'detta...and I still do well regardless of which model I'm running.

I race an Xray M18 which is 1/18th scale, I also race an Associated 18Rally which is the same type of car, also 1/18th scale but MUCH larger.

Folks have said that the AE RC18 is a true 1/18th where the Vendetta is actually 1/16th. If this is true then the Xray M18 must be 1/20th.

I see talk of tire size, well there are adapters available to run virtually any tire on any truck. If I mount touring car tires onto the RC18 would that make it 1/16th like the Vendetta, being that it now has the same diameter tires? How about if I mount RC18 tires onto the Vendetta?

Things that make you go hmmmmm.....

The Xray M18 is a true 1/18 scale tc. Along with the BRP, MRS4 and Nanda Nrx18, they are about the only micros properly scaled. At least, in the alleged 1/18 department.
We are fortunate that Hpi scaled their mrs4 from their 1/10 tc. Xray, as a company founded on, and devoted to, racing, followed suit. These companies developed their own vehicles. Not the case on the off-road side.

The A-tech XMB4 is the ONLY buggy that is even close to 1/18 scale!
Since there are no full scale versions of a 1/8 buggy, I worked from the ROAR rule book. The Wheelbase range for a 1/8 is; 330mm max/270mm min. Max width is 310mm.
This equates to 1/18 dimensions of; 146.6 - 120mm for wheelbase, 137.77mm for max width. The XMB4 is a couple mm longer, but fits within the width spec. Even it, has tires that are larger than scale.

For now, I think the best thing we race oranizers can do, is to group vehicles together that share the same design spirit and have similar performance potential. A clear example is the Vendetta ST and Asc. 18t. Although one was styled after 1/8 nitro truggies and the other was styled after a 1/10 elect. stadium truck, at least they are both intended for off-road racing & have the same performance potential.

I do not think that the best people to define racing classes are the representatives of the companies marketing the buggies and trucks in question. While a well written, logical, and fair class description/rule book, would benefit racer, race orginizer and supplier, alike. The short term goals are likely to differ.

i just wished that they would hold sanctioned events for the mins along with the 10th scalers.. why not have a class in these events.. it doesnt seem as if the 18th scale is as popular as it shouild be.. i have desperately tried to get others interested but they find it easier to stick with the 10th scalers and you get more recognition when you run a 10th scaler..

as far as seperation of class..
2wd
4wd buggy
4wd truck
monster truck

i dont think the vendetta st should be grouped with a mini-lst..

now the only vehicle i can speak on is the vendetta and with that there isnt much support from other manuf. to supply us with tires/bodies/aftermarkets...etc

the vendetta will always have a disadvantage if rules are kept strict

Your exactly right. The reality is when you race you dont want to be facing an opponent with a huge advantage. Not only dimensions and tire sizes....we have to look at power (amount of batteries and motor sizing)
Weight is a big factor as well because the bigger micros literally steamroll the smaller vehicles....
We need to have enough classes that allow seperation but not so many classes that we dont have enough racers to compete in them.

Here in Houston 1/18 is growing very quickly. We have several permanent tracks and more are planning on opening in the near future. During our Saturday events we always have 50 or so spectators and it always seems to bring in at least 1 new racer. We are now talking about inter-track points series and such.


1/18 scale Rally track
http://www.thrc18.com/newlayout.jpg

1/18 scale off road track
http://www.thrc18.com/OR%20Track%20pic.jpg

This branch of the hobby has the potential to grow very large as it provides speeds and competition that equal 1/10 but at a fraction of the cost.

Holy cow no! A Vendetta would run rings around a mini-LST on any kind of off road course. They are 2 totally different class of vehicles.

i wold love to race on that offroad course pictured.. ...

but i would still prefer to race against 10th scalers.. but only because im the underdog and ppl can see the potential of the 18th scale...

california needs to do something about the 18t scales,,, i had one guy tell me that he tried to have a 18th scale race but no one showed

Jae, What's your fascination with running with 10th scale cars:lol: We race mini's every Friday at Sun Valley and about 15 guys run. You should come up some time. I'm thinking about building some small jumps for the mini on-road track that we use to race on so I think it will be fun. We are racing this Sunday if it stops raining.

I agree, & I've talked to Scotty Ernst about that idea, adding micro classes to the Novak US Touring Car Champs(the M18 IS a touring car after all, & others could also be used), but he's still afradi that not enough racers would wanna do it to justify him adding those classes(of course, Trackside already has a STRONG Tamiya Mini crowd). But if enough guys would ask him about it, then he might start to rethink that....;)

sun valley is pretty dang far,,, and i would have to have every part needed just incase i break something,, but i would love to get out there..

i know that tamiya holds a mini race on their track,, but only tamiya chasis are aloud.. im thinking of sending them an email and asking if others can practice for a fee..

Jae you spoiled me by showing me how much fun it is to run against 1/10 scalers....(i ran w Jae at Pegasus).
Last week I brought my ST to Utah(Intermountain RC Raceway) and ran
my Vendetta ST against the 1/10 scales....In the end the bigger guys dont like when a little guy passes them and man they just broke me up.....
I will say this to set up a Detta it cost me as much as the B4 i just got....
In the beginning it seems less expensive but in reality it is not much cheaper.
I am comparing 4wd 1/18 to 2 wd 1/10 not totally fair but that they are the most popular classes of offroad racing.....
What is appealing to me w 1/18 scale is the fact we can run on a smaller (urban) track....

It's funny how everytime I say mini people think it's the Tamiya car:lol: I mean we run 18t's 18r's m18's some times all together, and it's really fun. You don't need tons of spares because we run on the on-road track and there are no jumps yet. We have a cool layout.