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Old 02-06-2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by v_squared View Post
Have you guys notice that PN 2018 and 2019 weight rules are now 160g? How do you get a miniz down to 160g? 2S lithium and lipo?

Correct, they lowered the minimum weight to accommodate lith & Lipo's...good move by them and it would be nice and timely if Kyosho started thinking about user friendly Lipo's too...the whole experience with lipos is much better in all aspects from maintenance, durability management (huge pre/post race time savings there) and of course performance too...love that crispier servo & throttle feel on lipo's. if they did it will probably have to be either an optional board or their high end car for more advanced drivers as there are no motors slow enough to be manageable on 2s lipo for novice or even sportsman drivers & it will be be pretty tricky but better all around if they can pull a 1s board out of their hat if they can somehow integrate a booster at this scale.


As it is I would say 3500 on 2s Lipos has been one of the most enjoyable power packages i've driven.
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Old 02-06-2019, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mugler View Post
Correct, they lowered the minimum weight to accommodate lith & Lipo's...good move by them and it would be nice and timely if Kyosho started thinking about user friendly Lipo's too...the whole experience with lipos is much better in all aspects from maintenance, durability management (huge pre/post race time savings there) and of course performance too...love that crispier servo & throttle feel on lipo's. if they did it will probably have to be either an optional board or their high end car for more advanced drivers as there are no motors slow enough to be manageable on 2s lipo for novice or even sportsman drivers & it will be be pretty tricky but better all around if they can pull a 1s board out of their hat if they can somehow integrate a booster at this scale.


As it is I would say 3500 on 2s Lipos has been one of the most enjoyable power packages i've driven.
Ok so 160g is ok for mod but stock should still be 170g right? Maybe even prostock should be 170g.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:15 PM
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Is there an damper available that will allow an LM to be converted to 98mm? I was able to do it by making the damper hole bigger and moving the T plate, but is there a damper available that will do this unmodified? I love how the LM car runs but there are many more bodies available at 98mm, also the pn race pro stock race does not allow 102mm chasis.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mugler View Post
Correct, they lowered the minimum weight to accommodate lith & Lipo's...good move by them and it would be nice and timely if Kyosho started thinking about user friendly Lipo's too...the whole experience with lipos is much better in all aspects from maintenance, durability management (huge pre/post race time savings there) and of course performance too...love that crispier servo & throttle feel on lipo's. if they did it will probably have to be either an optional board or their high end car for more advanced drivers as there are no motors slow enough to be manageable on 2s lipo for novice or even sportsman drivers & it will be be pretty tricky but better all around if they can pull a 1s board out of their hat if they can somehow integrate a booster at this scale.



As it is I would say 3500 on 2s Lipos has been one of the most enjoyable power packages i've driven.

I'm not sure i am fully on board with this. Having raced 1/12th to 1/8th scale electric for the last 10 years with lipo, while I agree they are much better then the old 1990's nimh and nicd experience, I think AAA's are super simple. They are inexpensive, have way less voodoo, are significantly safer and imo take way less maintenance. Sunday morning, toss them into the $25 charger, they auto start charging at 400mah, each cell individual so no worrying about balancing. Finish and they are ready to go. If i feel like i want the placebo effect, i can whack them at 1A right before a run and get 20-30 seconds of additional speed (and usually more crashes as my car is now driving differently). Pop them out, toss in the discharger, and good till next week. Thats very different from my $350 icharger and 75w power supply, cranking in 20A at a set time before the race, discharging at 60A, then repeaking at 40A more right before the run. Then after everything cools, having to get everything back to storage voltage. You have battery puffing, custom charge leads, huge discharge heat sinks, not to mention significant costs over AAA's. I know we are talking different scales and different levels of competition, but trying to get someone new into Mini Z's and knowing they can successfully use a $15-25 no brainer charger and be done with it, instead of having to learn about what NOT to do so your battery doesn't burst into flames either on the bench or inside your car...


Lipo has its place in mini racing, and so far i think its great with the GL and Atomic and other cars. Not sure that Mini Z's should be going that way quite yet. Our current fastest guy in our club is running $7 Rayovacs from Walmart. When it comes to new people in the hobby, i'll take that over lipo any day.


Completely my own opinion, but after racing 10th scale touring and all the fights and drama about stock vs spec and the attempts at trying to make cars equal and down to the driver... Mini Z's seem to have somehow nailed it. 3 of us bought 2 Audi Readysets and I bought the McLaren 12c. We put on the recommended tires (30 front, 20 rear), a variety of batteries (knockoff used eneloops, rayovacs, and some old batteries that were supposed to be hot back in xmod days), and we have all been within a tenth of a second of each other any any given day for the last 3 months. We built up HFAY cars, 70turn PN motors, open suspension and bits and have 3 totally different cars, 94-98mm, PN front end, atomic front end, PN chassis, stock chassis, all different pods and shock setups. All 3 cars run within a tenth of each other, and usually 2-3tenths faster then our box stock on a HFAY 2L layout. Anything that is introduced that starts changing that level of equality in the cars to me is a bad thing. Even the people here who time and again talk about how a box stock car is fine and you don't need anything, are running tons of custom or prototype or NLA parts. Nothing wrong with that, and the top levels of racing in this scale absolutely should be that. But lets not break the baseline and the already huge hurdles there are in getting new people into RC.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MTseo View Post
Is there an damper available that will allow an LM to be converted to 98mm? I was able to do it by making the damper hole bigger and moving the T plate, but is there a damper available that will do this unmodified? I love how the LM car runs but there are many more bodies available at 98mm, also the pn race pro stock race does not allow 102mm chasis.
Correct me if i am wrong, but if you get an MM pod, i think the shock (use the term loosely) is the same. You lose the friction damper plates unless you go to an R246 or PN option i think.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MTseo View Post
Is there an damper available that will allow an LM to be converted to 98mm? I was able to do it by making the damper hole bigger and moving the T plate, but is there a damper available that will do this unmodified? I love how the LM car runs but there are many more bodies available at 98mm, also the pn race pro stock race does not allow 102mm chasis.
The MZ217 is similar to the MZ305 (LM) but MM at 98MM. It sounds like from what you are saying that you can get the MZ305 to 98MM? I am not sure if the dampener on the 217 will work with the 305 ut they are cheap so it would not cost a lot to see. If not you could just switch back and forth from the 305 to the 217 depending on what you want to run.

Something I also just thought of is the LM mount is wider then the MM mount so you way run into issues there with wheel offsets using the 305 at 98MM's.

Cheers,
Jim
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MTseo View Post
Is there an damper available that will allow an LM to be converted to 98mm? I was able to do it by making the damper hole bigger and moving the T plate, but is there a damper available that will do this unmodified? I love how the LM car runs but there are many more bodies available at 98mm, also the pn race pro stock race does not allow 102mm chasis.
Yes. Kyosho calls this configuration MML. There may be other dampers out there, but this is the one I know of:

MML Roll Damper for MR-03 / HB98mm R246-1352 - KYOSHO RC
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by v_squared View Post
Ok so 160g is ok for mod but stock should still be 170g right? Maybe even prostock should be 170g.
I can't speak for them but one guess would be they dropped all weights down to 160g for simplicity's sake during tech. Also with lighter and lighter bodies becoming commonplace and a lot of racers omitting usage of top shock they had to go through the inconvenience of adding weight which a lot of racers didn't like. ironically my mod car with lipo still needs to hit 170g's before its top performance kick-in ... I like SS around 165-sh for best performance but running stock the lighter the better.
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:24 PM
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& Height Table: 
2WD Class / Super 2WD Stock
2WD Mod Class
Le Mans Class
F1 Mod Class
Pan Car Class
Minimum Weight
160g
160g
160g
180g
Unlimited
Max Wheel Base ( A )
*98mm
*98mm
MUST BE 102mm
130mm
94mm to 102mm
Maximum Car Length ( B )
*180mm
*180mm
Body Length
205mm
See the Bodies List
Maximum Car Width ( C )
* 80mm
* 80mm
Body Width
85mm
Maximum Wing Height ( D )
* 45m















































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Old 02-06-2019, 02:25 PM
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
I'm not sure i am fully on board with this. Having raced 1/12th to 1/8th scale electric for the last 10 years with lipo, while I agree they are much better then the old 1990's nimh and nicd experience, I think AAA's are super simple. They are inexpensive, have way less voodoo, are significantly safer and imo take way less maintenance. Sunday morning, toss them into the $25 charger, they auto start charging at 400mah, each cell individual so no worrying about balancing. Finish and they are ready to go. If i feel like i want the placebo effect, i can whack them at 1A right before a run and get 20-30 seconds of additional speed (and usually more crashes as my car is now driving differently). Pop them out, toss in the discharger, and good till next week. Thats very different from my $350 icharger and 75w power supply, cranking in 20A at a set time before the race, discharging at 60A, then repeaking at 40A more right before the run. Then after everything cools, having to get everything back to storage voltage. You have battery puffing, custom charge leads, huge discharge heat sinks, not to mention significant costs over AAA's. I know we are talking different scales and different levels of competition, but trying to get someone new into Mini Z's and knowing they can successfully use a $15-25 no brainer charger and be done with it, instead of having to learn about what NOT to do so your battery doesn't burst into flames either on the bench or inside your car...



Lipo has its place in mini racing, and so far i think its great with the GL and Atomic and other cars. Not sure that Mini Z's should be going that way quite yet. Our current fastest guy in our club is running $7 Rayovacs from Walmart. When it comes to new people in the hobby, i'll take that over lipo any day.



Completely my own opinion, but after racing 10th scale touring and all the fights and drama about stock vs spec and the attempts at trying to make cars equal and down to the driver... Mini Z's seem to have somehow nailed it. 3 of us bought 2 Audi Readysets and I bought the McLaren 12c. We put on the recommended tires (30 front, 20 rear), a variety of batteries (knockoff used eneloops, rayovacs, and some old batteries that were supposed to be hot back in xmod days), and we have all been within a tenth of a second of each other any any given day for the last 3 months. We built up HFAY cars, 70turn PN motors, open suspension and bits and have 3 totally different cars, 94-98mm, PN front end, atomic front end, PN chassis, stock chassis, all different pods and shock setups. All 3 cars run within a tenth of each other, and usually 2-3tenths faster then our box stock on a HFAY 2L layout. Anything that is introduced that starts changing that level of equality in the cars to me is a bad thing. Even the people here who time and again talk about how a box stock car is fine and you don't need anything, are running tons of custom or prototype or NLA parts. Nothing wrong with that, and the top levels of racing in this scale absolutely should be that. But lets not break the baseline and the already huge hurdles there are in getting new people into RC.

For Novice/sportsman levels and drawing in new people to the scale nimh would be the better choice for all the reason you mentioned.

Once you get to close competition in higher levels the main problem with nimh batts is dropping in each set is like dropping in a different motor too...the variation from cell to cell is just too huge which occurs not just out of package but develops further with more use (thats why they sold matched batts back in the day). i was able to observe all of this on a TRP matcher in 3 different occasion of matching 3 different sets of six battery packs. My routine for nimh management is different and much lengthier...day before discharge all batts to .5volts, let rest for at least 1-2 hours to settle voltage back to 1.20's (the most important step) and then decide if Im charging that night to re-peak next day at the track or if there's time to charge at the track (ideal), and then just store after use till next race day. this takes a lot of time vs just popping in some $1.25 AAA lithiums which can also be charged on a $30 charger l with no need to storage charge ( 3.5v min recommended but when they hit 3.7 the car is too slow to be driven already) . They also perform better with soaked voltage ...charge and let it rest for however long before use with no ill effects we could detect using them for over 18 months....also rumor has it they are not true lithium but rather some other chemistry but for marketing purposed lithium has been slapped on ( who knows if thats true but would be cool if someone cold confirm for sure) edit: even to this day if there's a high level nimh class there's always the rumors of batt zappers being used...yet another drawback for higher end action.

The small rectangular lipo packs with plugs also have been around forever and proven themselves in other applications starting with tiny drones and choppers and seem to be performing stellarly in 28th scale AWD's, GL's and alike.
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:09 PM
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I'm just glad there is an up tick in mini z interests. I really don't know where this is coming from. Mini z has been around for a very long time. I just want fun and close racing with low cost. I watch the Kyosho Cup races in Asia and I'm so envious of how much fun they are having. The varieties of bodies are off the chart. I think a lot of us are too worry about going fast ad we have forgotten how to have fun in this hobby.
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by v_squared View Post
I'm just glad there is an up tick in mini z interests. I really don't know where this is coming from. Mini z has been around for a very long time. I just want fun and close racing with low cost. I watch the Kyosho Cup races in Asia and I'm so envious of how much fun they are having. The varieties of bodies are off the chart. I think a lot of us are too worry about going fast ad we have forgotten how to have fun in this hobby.
Itís the right time of the year. While in past winters Iíve run 1/10 or other stuff out in the cold and snow. This winter itís been mostly MiniZ. Iíd really only expected to race few times over winter, now done 7 of the 10 races. My videos have brought 6 to the group. Unfortunate havenít had same effect with my 1/10 race videos.

You can give some blame to Kyosho. For them to not offer a 3500kv motor in the new Evo is a mistake. But instead offering a 12000kv motor. I canít really imagine how big a track youíd need to run that.
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:34 PM
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AAA vs Lithium power is a hot topic... I feel that Lithium based power has much more lower variance compared to AAA. When running a AAA car, staying on top of the battery charge cycle is 2/3 of my race weekend. With LiPo, I can charge at any time, and dont need to time my cells to the time that I race. AAA, I need to buy 10 sets of cells to get 4 good packs for racing, and the other 6 are practice packs. One single average cell can ruin the performance of the best cells in the pack. With LiPo, there is a lot less variance, and you can use a $20 charger that can charge multiple packs since we are charging at .5A or less. Charging aggressively is not as good performing for cells this size, as you will lose too much capacity in the charge. In 1/10 scale, I charge at 10A. I find no benefit to charging aggressive, it reduces consistency and there is major voltage drop in the middle of the run. 10A is perfect, plenty of time to get the cells charged up, and the run is relatively flat. By the time you get gridded up, the advantage of charging 40A is lost, and all you have is the disadvantage of lower capacity and fewer charge cycles for the cells.

Again, different people will have different experiences and opinions. I spoke with Kyosho, and they have no plans to move away from AAA any time soon. I am planning to test 1S operation with these cars soon, just need to find the opportunity. I just received some 3.7v to 5v voltage boosters good for 2A, which can go between an ESC and RX for aftermarket electronics, but I also would like to test with the Kyosho electronics. I know that the RWD electronics should be 1S capable, since Kyosho has been testing 3xAAA cells with it for their mini-endurance race which they posted a video about (with stock brushed motor). With a 5500kv motor, it could make some good stock speed racing, but thorough testing will be needed to mix it in with AAA classes, along with meeting the minimum weight restrictions. For now, this is just a pipe dream, but something that I feel can close the gap between equipment. My opinion is that brushed motors will essentially be tied to AAA cells, the relatively low efficiency of the brushed motor will induce considerable voltage drop on 1S. However, brushless motors with high enough capacity cells could realize a consistent speed of the car, with relatively low voltage drop over the 5-10m run. I have a box of 500 and 750mah 1S cells to test with, just need to find the time and get everything wired up.

For newer racers, I agree that AAA is easier to get new people that have never driven RC in to Mini-Z, however, for experienced larger scale hobbyists, LiPo is far more convenient, as most will just need to get a charge cable for the battery rather than a new charger.

As for minimum weight, my lightest kyosho stock cars weigh in at 163g. These new 98mm bodies are really light. My LM kyosho stock car in comparison weighs around 183g. Both are pretty equal in lap time.

Originally Posted by MTseo View Post
Is there an damper available that will allow an LM to be converted to 98mm? I was able to do it by making the damper hole bigger and moving the T plate, but is there a damper available that will do this unmodified? I love how the LM car runs but there are many more bodies available at 98mm, also the pn race pro stock race does not allow 102mm chasis.
LM damper for 98mm, R246-1352 should be what you are looking for. I also have a 3d Printed prototype that I am working on. The 1352 has the mounting points for the damper plate screws a little too close to the center line, which restricts the disc movement. My design moved them outwards a little. Send me a PM if you are interested in trying the adapter.
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by LJH View Post
The MZ217 is similar to the MZ305 (LM) but MM at 98MM. It sounds like from what you are saying that you can get the MZ305 to 98MM? I am not sure if the dampener on the 217 will work with the 305 ut they are cheap so it would not cost a lot to see. If not you could just switch back and forth from the 305 to the 217 depending on what you want to run.

Something I also just thought of is the LM mount is wider then the MM mount so you way run into issues there with wheel offsets using the 305 at 98MM's.

Cheers,
Jim
If you want to run between 98-102mm the best thing you can do is pick up the single best motor pod that PN ever created. The 98-102 LCGV4. The damper assembly is the same at both lengths you just move the post to the other hole. It handles screw mount motors and has adjustable right height pills. If you have a standard diff you just run +3 offset wheels on the rear for LM bodies. If you have a true LM diff all you need to do is slip one of the little plastic bushings that are used in place of bearings on each side of the axle between the hub and pod and you are centered for use with true LM wheels. No fuss no muss.
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