Mini-Z & Atomic / Other 1/28th Scale Cars on Asphalt?
 

Anyone have any experience running 1/28th scale kits on asphalt? I'm looking for information and data that once properly tuned and modded, they're a blast on 1/10th/1/12th scale courses, as I suspect.

I would imagine based on my limited experience with them that their 2mm ride would cause an issue on many tarmac surfaces. Uneven RCP track joints can upset one at ful speed. But the ability to run 1/28 on big track would be cool, although I'd need a neon green shell just to keep up with it 100ft away. LOL

The size is the challenge!!! Something bright and neon in the body dept would be a plus for sure, I was also curious if running a gyro would help with stability on the straights under full power.

And just to be clear, I don't mean like your average road in front on your house, we have a local on-road track that's a prepared asphalt surface that I want to negotiate usage with the local "big" car club to run these things. I've seen videos of people running them fine on concrete, and when I've spoken with some industry people they've agreed it can be done, but that it's a matter of dialing in the car for each surface/track condition. I was just wondering if anyone could offer some advice to save me having to buy one of every tire, spring, t-plate, pinion/spur gear and battery out there. Otherwise it's going to be up to me and you all are going to have to wait for me to do some tests!

Run mine on sealed asphalt all the time . step 1 take your RCP tires and throw them out the window.. no gyro needed , I cast my own tires for running on asphalt from 2 part silicone.. It hooks up great on asphalt and concrete.. I run 15a rears / 30 a fronts for asphalt , and usually 20a rears and 30 fronts for concrete.. Most important thing is just make sure the surface is clean..

Hey, a success story!!! I'm glad to hear that you can pull this off with no gyros, I want people of multiple skill levels and car classes to be able to get together and being able to have box stock guys out there would be a big boon to getting a full club formed. Do you make your tires slick or with tread? I've been eyeballing the Kyosho radials in 20r as my starting point, just waiting on some good weather and petty cash to get to it.

When you say clean, do you just mean free of debris and small rocks? Or do you mean fine dust too?

Usually on concrete, the fine dust usually coats the tire quite quickly and traction is lost. If you have a leaf blower, that can help considerably...

I havent driven outside in many years, but AWD platforms can make it much easier... and then its just finding the right tires. Larger tires also help provide extra clearance without jacking up the geometry of the cars, but finding bodies with good clearance is also a bit tough.

If you just want to do a trial run to figure out tires and plausibility, maybe a cheaper Atomic AMZ or even WL Toys may be an option with a low cost entry. There are some flaws in those designs, which really come to the front with high traction surfaces (AMZ has uneven camber, and differentials arent smooth on the WL Toys). The GL-Racing GLA is a relatively inexpensive platform to get up to speed, but has fewer flaws than the AMZ or WL which I mentioned. I find that the motor around 5500-7000kv is a good range for large size circuits. 3500-4500 is good for small to medium size circuits, but you run out of gear on anything medium+.

Heres a video showing some concrete racing, so you can get an idea...

I'm really interested in the AMZ, that's what I want to run. However, I'm also interested in getting the RWD Mini-Zs and the AMRs, and other platforms like that working though, so that there's an entry-level class, or a novice's way into racing, that way there's a clear path from beginner to racing with the top drivers in the mod classes. I'm all about AWD touring platforms, that's what I run when I race 1/10th scale, but I also recognize that there are going to be people who already have the RWD platforms, and so I want to be able to say "yes, you can race that car, here's how, etc" The idea is having 1/28th scale racing with the same class offerings as the larger classes, so that people who maybe can't drop $1200 on a new 1/10th scale set-up, but can maybe afford $250 to $300, could be racing 1/28th scale for a while, and then transition from that scale upward to the larger scales, using some of the same equipment they've acquired by racing 1/28th. But that's another thing entirely!!! Basically, just trying to nail down asphalt driving for all 1/28th scale chassis.

Thanks for the info, guys!!! Anyone else have some success?

One of the biggest hurdles with the Mini-Z, is the transmitter protocols. It has improved over the years, but Kyosho has used a proprietary protocol of one form or another on its RTR's for the last decade. This really narrows down the options for aftermarket transmitters. Currently only the Noble NB4 can support the RTR cars, while EVO has more options. With the kit cars, ATM, GL, etc... the transmitter options are improved, but still not as many options as with larger scales.

Getting the RWD cars to work on low grip ashphalt/concrete can be a bit more of a hurdle than with AWD since the base stability is lower. I think it is doable though. And learning to drive in lower traction I feel will make drivers better faster.

The four largest brands (Flysky, Futaba, Sanwa , Spektrum) all are supported by aftermarket (or OEM) receivers for 1/28 scale car kits.

entering 1/28 racing with a Kyosho is an "easy" in since all you need is the MiniZ box and some batteries...(and tires, wheels, tire tape, tplates, bearings, tools, charger, etc....MiniZ is just as big a blackhole as any other scale LOL) The issue I see as was mentioned is that RTR Zs only function with the included controller, or you can upgrade to a Flysky Noble and module. This controller is the only one available that can work with new RTRs AND other vehicle for when someone wants to race a new class, or get something to just play with. This is what made my son and I lose some of interest in MiniZs. Always having to buy another radio(wasteful and expensive) to get a new car, or having to run a radio Im not interested in or dont feel comfortable buying in order to be able to have one radio that i can use for everything in my growing hobby collection. So we ended up buying the stock MiniZs and parts accessories and things to just end up not really using them and then buying aftermarket chassis (Atomic for us) and everything that goes along with them. But I can use my new radio on My Atomic FFZ2, AE SCT, Destiny touring cars for USGT, VTA, our YZ2 Buggies, whatever basher I inevitably end getting and our Losi Mini-B.

( I prefer the MiniB as first real rc/racecar, its cheaper to buy, easier to play with outside, can be used in many more places, while still being fun to drive even inside a house , cheaper to race[easier on tires], has large aftermarket support, is easier to work on, doesnt require proprietary electronics(so it is readily upgradeable to any radio system) you can buy new cars without radio gear that still (typically) race in the entry level class)

Actually the radio issue is something I've spent quite a lot of time on, and I think I've found a rather simple solution to it, because I want people who get together and race here to be able to migrate upward to other classes from novice and box stock and there be a clear path for them to do so, while considering both skill and investment.

If one were to start off with a Mini-Z RTR, then when you want to move up to another class or upgrade to another 1/28th scale kit, you can use this receiver to use the RTR radio on the new 1/28th scale kit. Thus saving yourself from having to purchase a new radio at first.

https://www.wolframrc.com/product/ky...xo-racing/1174

Then, once you've got enough money saved, or you feel your skill has improved enough, you can upgrade your radio to whatever you want basically, like you stated before, Futaba, Flysky, etc, have compatible receivers, a lot of them made by the same company I linked to above, and your RTR radio goes back to being linked to your Mini-Z, and you can race a box stock class and a different class with your other 1/28th scale kit. I know perhaps some people want to race the Mini-Z with a different radio, but you can't if you're racing box stock, and then if you wanted to race some serious RWD classes with the Mini-Z, you're probably looking at an EVO anyway, in which case, you can use whichever radio you want.

I honestly feel that the radio compatibility issue puts a lot of people off, and rightly so in some cases, but I think there's a real pathway between the larger classes and the mini classes, and a lot of it uses the same gear if you're clever about it. The Reedy balance charger for example, will charge the mini scale LiPos, and the larger scale cells, and if you can use the same radio on both as well, you're looking at a much lower cost to get into one, once you've invested in the other.

That's what I really want to see; people being able to race both larger scales and mini scales and it not be a huge pain in the butt to do so. That's also why I'm trying to get mini scale racing started at my local 1/10th scale track, and the impetus for this post in the first place.

Tested my new GLR out on the bike trail I live near. Super smooth, flat and clean, prepared asphalt.

Kyosho Radials, 30R all around, 11/53 gearing, 5500kV motor. 3mm ride height; rear pod mounts in down position, front = 1.5mm shim up top for pre-load, no shim on the bottom for max clearance. 45k grease centre, 15k everywhere else. Stock springs.

Also, 5500kV is a lot of motor! I've turned it down on my ESC to 62.5% or whatever it is, and it's much more fun to drive, and even with 50 or 60 feet, it's hard to get it up to top speed for very long.

UPDATE!!!

Tested the GLR out on a few more surfaces, ALSO, the parking garage under my apartments, which is nice and clean textured concrete.

DS Touring 30R tires are also very good on asphalt and the concrete in my parking garage. In fact, at some times, especially under power, the DS tires seem to have more grip. I can get on the throttle quicker with the DS tires, it seems like. But I need to do real timed tests to be able to say definitely.

I'm curious what more weight would do, it slides a little in the turns if you're too hot, but it will scrub speed really well if you're delicate and hold itself through turns when you get it just right, you can hear the tires gripping the asphalt, just like 1/10th scale cars. More weight might make it stick better with some extra friction, or might make it slide more with some extra momentum, need more data.

Body makes a huge difference at medium to top speed, less hopping, tracks much better! Once you get it up to where the air is starting to have an effect, you can really see and feel it stick, steering adjustments are slightly damped and it doesn't whip out of control, even under full power. I'm using the GL lexan 98mm P1 body, it really performs well, holds shape, gives good aerodynamics, the rear wing is beefy and scoops a ton of air for its size.

All in all, the car is just fine on asphalt and concrete, pavement in general. The ride height doesn't mess with the geometry at all once you've tuned the suspension and the differential, and the lexan body helps to keep the weight from getting too high centred over the vehicle and in the chassis itself. It won't turn on a dime like I've seen in the videos of guys on RCP, and there is no doubt that the full power grip and acceleration you get on RCP, is completly non-existent on pavement. But that's driving on pavement! I drive differently on pavement that on carpet, I have different setups, everything is different. So maybe you have to rework your car a little, but at the end of the day, I don't see why any 1/10th scale or 1/12th scale club can't have 1/28th scale cars run on off days, or even on the same track days, and be treated just like any other class.

These cars are so much fun, if anyone is in the Puget Sound region wants to get together and do some informal races, let me know, I'll throw down some chalk lines in a nice dry parking garage and bash for a couple hours with anyone who thinks that'd be fun!

Both 2WD and AWD 28th scale cars work "really" well on asphalt. First hand experience with 2WD at Cal Raceway in Orange, CA where track was quiet bumpy at the time but my PN2.5 car drove great on PN KS front and rear tires and was even better on foams but rate of deg was very high. AWD at Roadrunners in Camarillo, CA (large smooth track ) had the opportunity to see someone run the original BZ and that thing was simply on rails....not even a miniz RC driver, just drove it between rounds for giggles.

Observed non-compatible with this scale items on a 10th scale asphalt were mainly the rails which even though are low by 10th scale standards still higher than most 28th scale cars causing loss of sight issues with car while driving and under various scenarios of marshaling, also the rigid material of the rails will be much less friendly with these cars than the foam railing of RCP say in a direct hit at end of the straight.

BTW on 10th scale "carpet tracks" performance of this cars are stellar...both carpet and asphalt full CA gluing rears is a must.
The Latest My Laps are easily small enough that with a custom wire shortening job they'll fit any chassis....back in 2010-2011 we actually raced on club race days at the now closed TQ RC Raceing Raceway in Chino, CA and had no issue stuffing the larger AMB transponders of the time on our MR-02's....sone of the moset intensely fun 28th scaling had the pleasure to be involved with.

For this scale Ideal from scratch asphalt track would be a nice smooth piece of asphalt with RCP style railing all around to bake back in car protection and IR transponder bridge.

TESTING NOTES 8/23; ASPHALT DRIVING, MAINTENANCE, ETC:
After considerable driving on asphalt and concrete, the majority of the damage to the car has been to the front bumper, particularly the lower bumper part, and to some extent, the upper carbon brace on one edge. The damage to the front bumper, and the impacts that caused the damage, have also caused the screws and the screw holes inside the front lower bulkhead that mount the front bumper to the front lower bulkhead to become loose and no longer be snug, with means that the front bumper itself is somewhat loose on the car, with no way to tighten it further without striping the screw holes in the front lower bulkhead out. One solution would be to obtain the front lower bulkhead aluminium upgrade, but this part is much more expensive and replacing wouldn’t be economical, further testing is needed. The other option and the most reasonable for now, is to obtain the replacement OEM lower front bulkhead, rebuild the front end, and continue to drive the car and see how it goes. Done. All good.

NOTE: driving the car better, and not smashing it at full speed into a parking pylon, might also go a long way in extending the lifespan of certain parts on the car.

The car is quite dirty, and needs a good cleaning. SOLVED; Air in a can. The shocks are all super dirty. Same. The bottom of the chassis is relatively unmarred, there are some marks on it, and some scrapes, but for the amount that it’s been driven on concrete and asphalt it is in great condition, with no chipping or damage to the edges, or the screw holes. The rear carbon motor mount is also in great condition, with no pitting, scratches, chips or damage otherwise. The majority of the damage to the underside of the car seems to be to the front lower bulkhead and even then it is minimal for the amount of driving the car has seen. 3mm ride height is the way to go.

It’s not clear yet which tires are better, the Kyosho Radials or the DS Touring Slicks, but the GL Racing wheels do seem to be performing well, and both sets of tires at 30* are working quite well. Only dunking the tires in the alcohol before sliding them onto the wheels has proved to be more than effective in proper mounting and even balance of the tires on the wheels, while also maintaining a workable amount of adhesion of the tires to the wheels, there has been no sign of peeling or lift of the outer tire edges from the wheels, even under hard driving for a decent amount of time, however, further testing is needed. I've now completely shredded a set of Kyosho radials, and they held up all the way to the end, and only got squirrel-y once they'd lost all tread.

Running the 5500kV motor on 50% via ESC tuning has made driving the car much more fun, as such, it’s roughly a 2750kV motor, geared at 11/53, and it is quite fast, remarkably fast, considering that there are 8800kV motors out there, and gearings which are much more aggressive, as well as timing adjustments to improve motor performance even further, *how are drivers getting their cars up to speed on these motors? I can barely get mine up to speed with 50 feet of parking lot.

AS FAR AS TUNING GOES, the front 0* knuckles are working fine, and the current shock springs are seeming to get the car around the makeshift track quite well, so long as I drive well, I would like to perhaps switch to the LONG CENTRE SHOCK configuration, and maybe get some softer shocks all around to see what that does to the car, but right now it drives very well, tires would also be a good thing to test now that the car itself is sort of driving consistently.

Brass Chassis: I’m not sure about this, but maybe more weight down below would help to give more grip to the tires by putting a little more force on them from gravity, but it also might make the car slide all over the place due to a greater horizontal moment of inertia.

INITIAL MAINTENANCE NEEDS
Delrin ball joints, $4.99
Steering Knuckles, $5.20
Front bulkhead, $7.99
Front lexan mount, $11.90
Front carbon brace, $7.90
new motor; seized bearing, $48.99
Steering Ball cups, all around (a little sloppy)

STEERING NOTES: there seems to be quite some play in the steering system after driving the car for a while, and crashing it some… The ball cups all look like they have some play and need to be replaced, and the servo has some play, along with the servo saver itself. The aluminium servo saver might be a good upgrade for durability and precision in this case. The titanium geared servo, or another upgraded servo might also be a good improvement for precision in the steering, as the steering overall is quite sloppy after being driven for a while, and having some bang ups.