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GLR 1/27 Scale RWD Pan Chassis

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GLR 1/27 Scale RWD Pan Chassis

Old 11-15-2021, 05:47 PM
  #571  
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[QUOTE=chjosi;15844665]
Originally Posted by EMU
I generally try to use 1mm front wheels to keep them tucked in to protect them and also to reduce scrub, and strain on the steering.[/QUOTE]

1mm? -? +?
Generally, only + offsets are used in this scale. It's very hard to find negative these days.
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Old 11-15-2021, 08:44 PM
  #572  
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Originally Posted by EMU
P2, thanks for posting the video, I just watched SS and open... Car looks good, but does look a bit edgy close to steering center. Do you have any curve on the steering? Any bind on the balls in the arms, or links? It just looks much more edgy than it should be near the center, but really good and smooth in the corners. I tend to run about -10 to -15 on steering to make it feel linear, but not sure if its an electronics thing, or maybe a servo saver/steering bind issue?

Are you using the kit saver, and is there any slop when you nudge the wheels while holding servo horn? The kit saver is prone to developing slop. I generally try to use 1mm front wheels to keep them tucked in to protect them and also to reduce scrub, and strain on the steering. The more offset you run, the more force goes to the servo, and running wide offsets can provide a bit more stability, but I find that it reduces feel for the steering. I have seen many more steering issues with drivers who use wide offset than those with low offset, even ones who do not crash much. I used my stock saver for about 1.5 years, then swapped to the option saver, and gave my old saver to someone at RCHQ's PNNAC race who had a bad saver and they said it was night and day difference. I would recommend having a spare saver, and side links as those are typically the first parts to have issues. But, generally, I find the GLR to be one of the most reliable cars that I have driven.

Marcus mentioned to me that he had a decent start, but race blew up on him... and he was content with grabbing that hot lap to take home with him. I just didnt have a chance to track down the video... He was charging at the end... but just came up a bit short.
I'm not using any negative expo in the steering, will try some later this week. The car was used when I got it so some parts were worn but there was no binding and minimal slop. I replaced all the ball cups and rebuilt the front end yesterday so it's basically back to new. Car has the option servo saver...I just started racing mini Z 4 months ago after a 10 year layoff, plus at 55y old...maybe that's why I can't keep the car straight
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Old 11-16-2021, 02:23 AM
  #573  
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Originally Posted by P2
I'm not using any negative expo in the steering, will try some later this week. The car was used when I got it so some parts were worn but there was no binding and minimal slop. I replaced all the ball cups and rebuilt the front end yesterday so it's basically back to new. Car has the option servo saver...I just started racing mini Z 4 months ago after a 10 year layoff, plus at 55y old...maybe that's why I can't keep the car straight
You did really well!!! And used GLR's are probably the best purchase you can make in this scale! Great cars, with great value. Jacob took about 10 years off from the hobby, only returning a few months back as well, and you were running right there with him in pace in the final. So you are a definite threat in the scale... hopefully sometime our paths cross.

The upgraded servo saver locks in the steering, and does alleviate the one real issue that the car has in my opinion. The standard saver can work fine, it did for me for a while, but the option is more reliable with less slop. When I first started driving the GLR, the initial steering was really strong for me that I needed to use a lot of curve and even steering speed to calm it down until I adjusted my wheel hand to be smoother turning. (Steering speed into the turn, but return was 100 speed). Now I have removed the speed adjustment and much of the expo setting.
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Old 11-16-2021, 05:47 AM
  #574  
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Yup, Jacob said he just got back into RC after 10 yrs off just like me… we both laughed. But he’s a former world champion! I’m sure we’ll meet one day as I plan on traveling to some races in the future.
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Old 11-22-2021, 05:19 AM
  #575  
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EMU, you had a pretty good weekend! Your thoughts on how your GLR performed and what cars were working well for others?
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:33 AM
  #576  
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Originally Posted by P2
EMU, you had a pretty good weekend! Your thoughts on how your GLR performed and what cars were working well for others?
I think that all three cars were well represented, and were very close in performance. Conditions were somewhat predictable, with low early traction building through the event consistently. In preparation, I cut my standard front tire diameter of 22.5mm to start qualify rounds, hoping to be around 22.1mm for the mains when traction reached its peak (I have 19mm wheel in front, so typically run down to 21.5 before it is too small.

Tire wear was almost non existent, and by the mains it was higher than I wanted, and front tire was still 22.4mm. I made a couple small adjustments to droop and drag brake, which helped settle the car. I would have cut down the tire, but no time to really scrub it in to be useful, so had to make the best with the tire on hand. I typically setup for what conditions I expect in the mains, and work backwards to qualify start...

Jacob ran RX-GT setup in lipo spec 3500 (superstock). I was pretty evenly paced with Derek Tester in his MRZ in qualify, but found a bit of pace, but also more comfort in my adjustments for sunday. I was just about on pace with my GLR, down by roughly .1s/L on pace to the top... I was satisfied with my pace, but made just a few errors when I was in striking distance of the podium and let the battle slip away.

I also had an MC3 differential to review and analyze which I used in superstock. It's pretty tricked out, including an actual thrust bearing as well as a standard ball bearing in the right pressure plate. This separates the axial loading on the differential assembly from the radial loading. Reducing compression under lateral loading. The diff is LM width externally (but will not work with LM pods), +2mm wider each side, but should work under many hard and soft bodies. I would have liked to land on the podium to show what the diff could do, but ran out of talent trying to make up ground due to poor qualifying. I plan to replace most of my runners with this diff when widely available.

in Pan car, Derek was flying with his MRZ, leading half of the main in the main, but failed to finish with a lap to go. I didn't really get comfortable enough with my pan car to settle on a consistent pace. It's in need of a full rebuild, as it hasn't really been touched setup wise since 2019... I have an early prototype steel chassis on it which is about 10g lighter than the brass chassis, and i think it was a bit too light on this layout.

mod GT, Jacob ran RX-MRZ setup, and his car was flawless, although thiago had the fast lap in the GT, Jocob took half a lap gap early and just never looked back.
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:10 AM
  #577  
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EMU, Thanks for the race report & congrats on amazing performance & results specially given limited (if any) pre-race event track time for months prior...not easy to do at all unless you know exactly what you’re doing.

Regarding MC3 diff I see your planning to convert your fleet so I assume there’s a noticeable on track difference in feel, performance and consistency compared to kyosho & atomic based ball diff designs, if yes in what ways?


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Old 11-22-2021, 11:40 AM
  #578  
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Originally Posted by mugler
EMU, Thanks for the race report & congrats on amazing performance & results specially given limited (if any) pre-race event track time for months prior...not easy to do at all unless you know exactly what you’re doing.

Regarding MC3 diff I see your planning to convert your fleet so I assume there’s a noticeable on track difference in feel, performance and consistency compared to kyosho & atomic based ball diff designs, if yes in what ways?
thanks, I never really felt that I got into rhythm, but performed as expected. My best race I felt was lipo spec, which was +3 from qualify and in a very competitive field with 35+ entries.

I think it is difficult to substantiate a direct correlation between performance of the differential on a race event weekend with an evolving surface. What I will say is that I felt that the differential was very consistent in its feel and setpoint. I believe that the diff will generally have longer time between service rebuild purely due to the thrust bearing. The majority of failures which I have with differentials are the outer axle bearing which is taking the axial loading. Over time, the races wear, and the differentiation suffers.

the quality of the rings, machining and bearings are equal to the best differentials I have built. The spurs and pinions feel ok. Hard to pass judgment on them at this time.

with the MC3 diff, the tension throughout the race felt very consistent from the setpoint set before the race. Wher often it can tighten up just a bit through the run to change the car. The tension also felt more consistent with left right balance when the rear right wheel was loaded on a left turn coming on throttle. On a standard diff, that lateral load is partially transferred to the pressure plate on the diff, where on this diff the lateral load is constrained by a plastic/delrin sleeve nut threaded on the shaft.
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Old 11-22-2021, 02:10 PM
  #579  
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Availability of MC3 diff and where to source?
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Old 11-22-2021, 04:01 PM
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Thanks for the feeback, about 5 years ago I tried fitting a 3x6x3 thrust bearing ( closest avialble one i could find at the time) into a typical ball diff by attemptig to shave off .5mm from the thrust bearing ring plates but just couldnt get it done using different sand papers and other techniques...just did another search and located a 3x6x2.5 thrust bearing which I had not seen b4, plan to order and pop into one of my diffs just to see but in any case for sure will be trying out the MC3 diff which is a comprehensivly overhauled design with another bearing added to the inside of outer diff hub and ultimaltely processes forces sent through it differently.


P2 - There is a presentational video under MRCS's FB page about the diff...in the description it says it will be released soon with a list of about 5 retailers who'll be carrying the item initially
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Old 11-23-2021, 06:08 AM
  #581  
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I think the MC3-WLS diff will be available at multiple sources. MRCS will be carrying it, that I know of.

Mugler, I had thought to do the same thing, but I think that the thrust bearing alone will not be able to deal with the radial loading of the pressure plate... Using both a ball bearing, and thrust bearing solves a lot of that issue. Also the fact that the diff is 2mm wider on each side, shouldnt really effect the majority of use case for this diff. It is the same outer dimensions as the LM diff, and the majority (if not all) competitive 98mm bodies will fit over with 0-1mm rear offsets.

I had spent many nights thinking about integrating a thrust bearing into our differentials, and couldnt think of a way to do it properly without completely redesigning the diff. Which was a bit more than I have capability to do. When MC3 contacted me, asking if I was interested in reviewing one, and stress testing it, I didnt hesitate. I also knew that there would be no better level of competition to truly compare it than the GL Nationals in the Lipo Spec class. The level of competition in that class was unreal, that A-Main was stacked with most of the fastest drivers in the country!
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Old 11-23-2021, 11:15 AM
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Ditto regarding axial loads & how different MC3 diff design & function is, just curious to see if a thrust bearing in place of regular bearing will smooth out the exitsing action on common diffs any further…built in +2 offset not an issue…been running almost exclusively +3 rear offset rear just have to get some +1 rears …if anything the shorter wheel stem on lower offsets is less prone to tweaking out ( slightly bending) or cracking after direct accidental axle hits by other cars etc.

That LSC class must’ve been a treat to participate in for sure !

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Old 11-28-2021, 06:54 AM
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EMU,
Another successful weekend with the GLR, helped a friend with his car and now he's ditching his MRZ .
What's your Mod car baseline setup? I'm gonna build one up...what ESC and motor do you recommend? So many questions Lol.
I contemplated building up a GLR GT w/RR conversion but GLR is so dialed right now!
Cheers!
Paul
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Old 11-28-2021, 07:39 AM
  #584  
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Originally Posted by P2
EMU,
Another successful weekend with the GLR, helped a friend with his car and now he's ditching his MRZ .
What's your Mod car baseline setup? I'm gonna build one up...what ESC and motor do you recommend? So many questions Lol.
I contemplated building up a GLR GT w/RR conversion but GLR is so dialed right now!
Cheers!
Paul
Glad to hear you're having a good time with the GLR.

As far as mod goes, I typically use 5500kv, 11/53 sensorless, or 4500kv with boost and turbo for sensored. If you want to keep power etup more simple, the 5500 is more plug and play, and 4500 with boost and turbo is on a similar power level to 5500 without. My pan car has the standard hobbywing GL V1.2 ESC and PN 5500kv v3 motor. My 2wd mod has GL sensored ESC with GL 4500kv motor with 12/53 ratio. Once tuned, they have a similar feel and power delivery, but it takes more time to dial in the boost and turbo. So if you don't want to work on ESC setup to get the feel right, I would just use a 5500 motor without boost and turbo.

As far as physical setup, it doesn't change much from the baseline setup I mentioned for superstock. With superstock already being like a mild modified setup, a lot of the setup translates just with the power band being larger due to the faster motors. Superstock having the low gear restriction, generates a lot of power off the corners, then hits rev limits, so it demands a lot of stability to get the power down... My superstock setup is worked from a mod setup down to superstock so it can go up to mod power pretty easily. Just add power, and adjust drag brake to the motor and circuit to balance the attitude of the car.

The GT does have a little pace in hand compared to GLR, and the Reflex rear end conversion does bring the consistency level of the car in line with GLR as well.
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Old 11-28-2021, 11:21 AM
  #585  
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Originally Posted by EMU
Glad to hear you're having a good time with the GLR.

As far as mod goes, I typically use 5500kv, 11/53 sensorless, or 4500kv with boost and turbo for sensored. If you want to keep power etup more simple, the 5500 is more plug and play, and 4500 with boost and turbo is on a similar power level to 5500 without. My pan car has the standard hobbywing GL V1.2 ESC and PN 5500kv v3 motor. My 2wd mod has GL sensored ESC with GL 4500kv motor with 12/53 ratio. Once tuned, they have a similar feel and power delivery, but it takes more time to dial in the boost and turbo. So if you don't want to work on ESC setup to get the feel right, I would just use a 5500 motor without boost and turbo.

As far as physical setup, it doesn't change much from the baseline setup I mentioned for superstock. With superstock already being like a mild modified setup, a lot of the setup translates just with the power band being larger due to the faster motors. Superstock having the low gear restriction, generates a lot of power off the corners, then hits rev limits, so it demands a lot of stability to get the power down... My superstock setup is worked from a mod setup down to superstock so it can go up to mod power pretty easily. Just add power, and adjust drag brake to the motor and circuit to balance the attitude of the car.

The GT does have a little pace in hand compared to GLR, and the Reflex rear end conversion does bring the consistency level of the car in line with GLR as well.
I'll try the 5500 senseless route. Same springs and tires? currently on KSM Med/Marka 10. What's the difference between KS and KSM compounds?
Lastly, what's the "go to" lexan body and what parts are required to mount it to the chassis?
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