Better cornering
07-29-2010, 06:17 AM
#16
07-29-2010, 08:35 AM
#17
07-29-2010, 07:08 PM
#18
don't ask me...i also dun know...i am just a beginner...
copy from somewhere
Droop is often misunderstood and confused with downstop settings. Droop is the measure of travel of the chassis from its static position, to its most extended position (see Figure XX). The downstop setting alters how much downtravel you’re A-arms will experience. It is set by turning the screw in the A-arm (see Figure XXX). Therefore, altering ride-height and the downstops effect droop.
copy from somewhere
Droop is often misunderstood and confused with downstop settings. Droop is the measure of travel of the chassis from its static position, to its most extended position (see Figure XX). The downstop setting alters how much downtravel you’re A-arms will experience. It is set by turning the screw in the A-arm (see Figure XXX). Therefore, altering ride-height and the downstops effect droop.
07-29-2010, 07:34 PM
#19
don't ask me...i also dun know...i am just a beginner...
copy from somewhere
Droop is often misunderstood and confused with downstop settings. Droop is the measure of travel of the chassis from its static position, to its most extended position (see Figure XX). The downstop setting alters how much downtravel you’re A-arms will experience. It is set by turning the screw in the A-arm (see Figure XXX). Therefore, altering ride-height and the downstops effect droop.
copy from somewhere
Droop is often misunderstood and confused with downstop settings. Droop is the measure of travel of the chassis from its static position, to its most extended position (see Figure XX). The downstop setting alters how much downtravel you’re A-arms will experience. It is set by turning the screw in the A-arm (see Figure XXX). Therefore, altering ride-height and the downstops effect droop.
07-29-2010, 07:45 PM
#20
07-29-2010, 08:40 PM
#21
Tech Master
07-29-2010, 09:09 PM
#22
07-29-2010, 09:25 PM
#23
Tech Master
07-29-2010, 09:27 PM
#24
all is base on theory written at handbook...
but some ppl play for so long still confuse...
07-29-2010, 09:42 PM
#25
Tech Master
07-29-2010, 09:44 PM
#26
07-29-2010, 11:03 PM
#27
Coming back to the original question, if you claim that you want more steering, the cause and the fix is very subjective. There are too many variables that can cause this and one of them is the driver's style and expectations.
For example;
A given car can have tons of steering while another driver that drive the same car may not have steering on the same corner. One of the reasons may be because the first driver may have too much approach speed and forces the car into the corner, while the second driver gave it a blip of brakes just before the corner and steers the car into the corner. This is even more evident if this corner is at the end of a high speed straight.
This is a typical example that usually does not need any setting change on the car but in driving style for obvious reasons.
If you will, its just like you driving 160kmh on the highway and trying to make a sharp 90 degree turn without slowing down the car to the appropriate speed. Even F1 needs to slowdown on corners.
Second example;
The failure of the driver to control the power of the motor to suit the track resulting the car over shooting the corners. Again this somewhat got nothing to do with the setting of the car but typically the settings on the ESC or motor/driver combo and driving style.
Third example;
A given car can have lots of steering for one driver and drives round the track perfectly, but when another driver drives the same car, the rear end steps out on almost every corner.
So is this car rear end having problem?
The are so many factors that contributes to the handling dynamics of the car but the key is to understand the shifting of the weight in the car during acceleration and deceleration or also known as off-power and on-power. The droop/down stop thingy discussed are one of the elements that controls the amount of weight shift between the front and rear during at on/off power.
In theory, you want the weight to shift to the front at off-power so the front tires have more bite on the road so the car can turn, and when on-power you want the weight to shift to the rear to have more bite on he rear so the car does not spin out. But if the weight shifts between the front and rear are too extreme you either will end up with car that has a very lose rear end at off power cornering or you will have no steering at on-power while exiting the corner. So the trick is to find the balance and that suits your driving style.
In the Xray manual being referred earlier, you must read the part before the droop bit that describes this weight shift theory. Look at "Weight Transfer".
Enough theory for now.
It sounds like your car has a very stable rear end now, So my question is, when you say you don't have steering or not enough steering, is this during off-power or on-power? Unless the rear end also lacks stability, then its a whole different story then.
For example;
A given car can have tons of steering while another driver that drive the same car may not have steering on the same corner. One of the reasons may be because the first driver may have too much approach speed and forces the car into the corner, while the second driver gave it a blip of brakes just before the corner and steers the car into the corner. This is even more evident if this corner is at the end of a high speed straight.
This is a typical example that usually does not need any setting change on the car but in driving style for obvious reasons.
If you will, its just like you driving 160kmh on the highway and trying to make a sharp 90 degree turn without slowing down the car to the appropriate speed. Even F1 needs to slowdown on corners.
Second example;
The failure of the driver to control the power of the motor to suit the track resulting the car over shooting the corners. Again this somewhat got nothing to do with the setting of the car but typically the settings on the ESC or motor/driver combo and driving style.
Third example;
A given car can have lots of steering for one driver and drives round the track perfectly, but when another driver drives the same car, the rear end steps out on almost every corner.
So is this car rear end having problem?
The are so many factors that contributes to the handling dynamics of the car but the key is to understand the shifting of the weight in the car during acceleration and deceleration or also known as off-power and on-power. The droop/down stop thingy discussed are one of the elements that controls the amount of weight shift between the front and rear during at on/off power.
In theory, you want the weight to shift to the front at off-power so the front tires have more bite on the road so the car can turn, and when on-power you want the weight to shift to the rear to have more bite on he rear so the car does not spin out. But if the weight shifts between the front and rear are too extreme you either will end up with car that has a very lose rear end at off power cornering or you will have no steering at on-power while exiting the corner. So the trick is to find the balance and that suits your driving style.
In the Xray manual being referred earlier, you must read the part before the droop bit that describes this weight shift theory. Look at "Weight Transfer".
Enough theory for now.
It sounds like your car has a very stable rear end now, So my question is, when you say you don't have steering or not enough steering, is this during off-power or on-power? Unless the rear end also lacks stability, then its a whole different story then.
07-29-2010, 11:23 PM
#28
Coming back to the original question, if you claim that you want more steering, the cause and the fix is very subjective. There are too many variables that can cause this and one of them is the driver's style and expectations.
For example;
A given car can have tons of steering while another driver that drive the same car may not have steering on the same corner. One of the reasons may be because the first driver may have too much approach speed and forces the car into the corner, while the second driver gave it a blip of brakes just before the corner and steers the car into the corner. This is even more evident if this corner is at the end of a high speed straight.
This is a typical example that usually does not need any setting change on the car but in driving style for obvious reasons.
If you will, its just like you driving 160kmh on the highway and trying to make a sharp 90 degree turn without slowing down the car to the appropriate speed. Even F1 needs to slowdown on corners.
Second example;
The failure of the driver to control the power of the motor to suit the track resulting the car over shooting the corners. Again this somewhat got nothing to do with the setting of the car but typically the settings on the ESC or motor/driver combo and driving style.
Third example;
A given car can have lots of steering for one driver and drives round the track perfectly, but when another driver drives the same car, the rear end steps out on almost every corner.
So is this car rear end having problem?
The are so many factors that contributes to the handling dynamics of the car but the key is to understand the shifting of the weight in the car during acceleration and deceleration or also known as off-power and on-power. The droop/down stop thingy discussed are one of the elements that controls the amount of weight shift between the front and rear during at on/off power.
In theory, you want the weight to shift to the front at off-power so the front tires have more bite on the road so the car can turn, and when on-power you want the weight to shift to the rear to have more bite on he rear so the car does not spin out. But if the weight shifts between the front and rear are too extreme you either will end up with car that has a very lose rear end at off power cornering or you will have no steering at on-power while exiting the corner. So the trick is to find the balance and that suits your driving style.
In the Xray manual being referred earlier, you must read the part before the droop bit that describes this weight shift theory. Look at "Weight Transfer".
Enough theory for now.
It sounds like your car has a very stable rear end now, So my question is, when you say you don't have steering or not enough steering, is this during off-power or on-power? Unless the rear end also lacks stability, then its a whole different story then.
For example;
A given car can have tons of steering while another driver that drive the same car may not have steering on the same corner. One of the reasons may be because the first driver may have too much approach speed and forces the car into the corner, while the second driver gave it a blip of brakes just before the corner and steers the car into the corner. This is even more evident if this corner is at the end of a high speed straight.
This is a typical example that usually does not need any setting change on the car but in driving style for obvious reasons.
If you will, its just like you driving 160kmh on the highway and trying to make a sharp 90 degree turn without slowing down the car to the appropriate speed. Even F1 needs to slowdown on corners.
Second example;
The failure of the driver to control the power of the motor to suit the track resulting the car over shooting the corners. Again this somewhat got nothing to do with the setting of the car but typically the settings on the ESC or motor/driver combo and driving style.
Third example;
A given car can have lots of steering for one driver and drives round the track perfectly, but when another driver drives the same car, the rear end steps out on almost every corner.
So is this car rear end having problem?
The are so many factors that contributes to the handling dynamics of the car but the key is to understand the shifting of the weight in the car during acceleration and deceleration or also known as off-power and on-power. The droop/down stop thingy discussed are one of the elements that controls the amount of weight shift between the front and rear during at on/off power.
In theory, you want the weight to shift to the front at off-power so the front tires have more bite on the road so the car can turn, and when on-power you want the weight to shift to the rear to have more bite on he rear so the car does not spin out. But if the weight shifts between the front and rear are too extreme you either will end up with car that has a very lose rear end at off power cornering or you will have no steering at on-power while exiting the corner. So the trick is to find the balance and that suits your driving style.
In the Xray manual being referred earlier, you must read the part before the droop bit that describes this weight shift theory. Look at "Weight Transfer".
Enough theory for now.
It sounds like your car has a very stable rear end now, So my question is, when you say you don't have steering or not enough steering, is this during off-power or on-power? Unless the rear end also lacks stability, then its a whole different story then.
07-29-2010, 11:54 PM
#29
thanks all...
in fact the cornering is very steady (alot of grip) now after i 36R tires, medium inserts, traction compound, settings on ackermann, RH and DS..as for now im using the drag brake (10%) instead of braking and full TH in and out of the corner..hmmm...
back to the xray setup book on page 10. it says:
When you use rubber tires on your car, you can set a particular downstop value to get a particular droop value, and then forget about it. Rubber tires
do not wear appreciably during use, so the droop value should not change.
However, when you use foam tires on the car, things become a bit more complicated. You will have to constantly adjust ride height and downstop
settings to maintain a particular droop value.
so DS = droop for rubber tires? hehehe...
in fact the cornering is very steady (alot of grip) now after i 36R tires, medium inserts, traction compound, settings on ackermann, RH and DS..as for now im using the drag brake (10%) instead of braking and full TH in and out of the corner..hmmm...
back to the xray setup book on page 10. it says:
When you use rubber tires on your car, you can set a particular downstop value to get a particular droop value, and then forget about it. Rubber tires
do not wear appreciably during use, so the droop value should not change.
However, when you use foam tires on the car, things become a bit more complicated. You will have to constantly adjust ride height and downstop
settings to maintain a particular droop value.
so DS = droop for rubber tires? hehehe...
07-30-2010, 12:23 AM
#30
Totally agree with Oldman on his advise. He is an "old timer" in RC anyway. 
It really depends on how you take a corner (i.e speed, aggresiveness, racing line etc). You have to set your car up to the way you drive. For me, my setup is usually very different from my sifu who is a very smooth driver while I am quite an aggresive driver, although we drive similar cars.
My advise....learn and understand the xray setup book. Then based on how you drive.....and the knowledge you gain from the xray setup book, set your car up to suit your driving.
As to whether droop = downstop, don't bother yourself too much with it. As long as you have the tool to setup your downstop/droop, and you know how adjustments to it will affect your car, then you're going in the right direction.
Just to share, at Glenmarie with my TRF416X, I normally use Sorex 36R, Muchmore Pink (softest insert), HPI pink (front) and HPI silver (rear) springs, 600 Muchmore (front) and 500 Muchmore (rear) shockoil, with 5 (front) and 4 (rear) downstop. Ride height 5 front and 5.5 rear. Low roll centre so that the car rolls a bit more for more lateral bite at corners.
If it is of interest, with downstop at 4 and ride height at 5.5 at the rear, my rear "droop" is larger than the front.
Regards
It really depends on how you take a corner (i.e speed, aggresiveness, racing line etc). You have to set your car up to the way you drive. For me, my setup is usually very different from my sifu who is a very smooth driver while I am quite an aggresive driver, although we drive similar cars. My advise....learn and understand the xray setup book. Then based on how you drive.....and the knowledge you gain from the xray setup book, set your car up to suit your driving.
As to whether droop = downstop, don't bother yourself too much with it. As long as you have the tool to setup your downstop/droop, and you know how adjustments to it will affect your car, then you're going in the right direction.
Just to share, at Glenmarie with my TRF416X, I normally use Sorex 36R, Muchmore Pink (softest insert), HPI pink (front) and HPI silver (rear) springs, 600 Muchmore (front) and 500 Muchmore (rear) shockoil, with 5 (front) and 4 (rear) downstop. Ride height 5 front and 5.5 rear. Low roll centre so that the car rolls a bit more for more lateral bite at corners.
If it is of interest, with downstop at 4 and ride height at 5.5 at the rear, my rear "droop" is larger than the front.
Regards