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Old 03-08-2006, 04:39 PM   #1
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Default Share your brushless experience

I know a few of us have started on the brushless systems. I'm considering getting one myself. So far, the reliability of the systems seem to be a bit of a mystery to most of us though. From what I've read on the internet, it seems some people have problems on their first run, some have problems a few months later, and some seem to have gone through 150 battery packs without a single hiccup.

I myself is considering getting an LRP Sphere but want to hear more about all the pros and cons of each system first. The Novak GTB sounds good too but seems to be only available in 5.5 turn package here and the official word from a Novak rep is that it has glitching problems with 40Mhz radios, which is very unfortunate for me.

So everyone, if you can share your experiences with your Spheres, GTB's, Super Sports, Velocitis, Vectors, Schulzes, Hackers, Lehners, Kontroniks, etc that would be awesome. Also, if you can, let us know how long you've been running your system, if you have any problems with glitching, or broken motors/escs, reliability, and oh what radio frequencies you are using.

Thanks.
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:01 PM   #2
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Dear Sim600,

I have a little experience with brushless of the sensorless type. I have put a feigao 7XL motor paired with a BK warrior 9920 esc running on 5S lipo into my savage without much problems. I am generally bashing not racing the truck in a small track locally.

I have put a similar system into my sacker buggy but battled constantly with overheating problems (esc hetasink temp. reaching over 100 deg C) & thermal shutdowns. I was basically running the buggy on a track in a racing like condition (but not actually racing). Changed the motor to something smaller (feigao 10L) & it was ok so far (only 1 outing).

I have also put the above 7XL system into a custom chassis using HB lightning pro truggy main components without success. Again overheat & thermal shutdown.

My general conclusion so far is that for sensorless systems, need to pay big bucks to get decent esc. Motor is not the limiting factor here. Also, I heard other mention that gearing is critical for the performance of brushless system. Gearing down is not always the solution to overheating or other problems. Sometimes have to gear up !

A couple of sites with useful info are :

http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/f...play.php?f=335

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=12

Hope this is helpful.

Regards,
Joe Ling
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:56 PM   #3
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Default Novak Super Sport 5800

Sim ,

I have had my brushless for about a year now .. 150 packs or more .. lost count
Still performs like the first time I ran it .... consistent performer , you can count on .. no worn out brush / comm to bog you down ..

Performance is about the same as a 12 turn .. Cost me 1K one year ago new..
looking back , no regrets .. worth the money ..

The only maintenance I did , was lube the bearing once every month ..
My application was for touring car only .. Dunno how it will hold up against off road rigours..

Currently my friend rudy is running brushless on his Academyt buggy .. so far so good.
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Old 03-12-2006, 09:51 PM   #4
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Joe,
Thanks for the feedback.

Uthaya,
Yours and Rudy's are both the Novak Super Sport with the SS5800 motor, right?
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Old 03-14-2006, 09:21 AM   #5
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Read somewhere today that the original Sphere couldn't handle the Vector 4 star. For the 4 star, a Sphere competition is required. Hmm
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Old 03-14-2006, 09:43 AM   #6
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Sim,

I was fortunate enuf to test the Novak GTB 4.5R courtesy of Novak at the TITC. It was awesome! Blistering fast too. Throttle feels like a brushed motor. Did have some minor heat problems as we were gearing it to the moon under blistering heat. Once the gearing was right, it was perfect.
Dunno how it'll work for off-road though.

Cheers.
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Old 03-14-2006, 07:54 PM   #7
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SIm ,
mine is the Novak SS 5800 , sensored system .. throttle control is very decent ..
Rudy has schulze esc hooked to a lehner motor .. sensorless system.
tried his buggy .. throttle feels linear too ..

My 2 cents .. future of electric RC = brushless + LiPo
I beleive functionality is already there , just have to work out the performance bugs ...
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Old 03-14-2006, 09:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sim600
Read somewhere today that the original Sphere couldn't handle the Vector 4 star. For the 4 star, a Sphere competition is required. Hmm
Hi Sim,

Yes, it is better to run the 4 Star with the Sphere Comp.

To all,

We have some very attractive pricing for the original Sphere + Vector combos. Do check them out at HPC!!!

Cheers,
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Old 03-14-2006, 09:06 PM   #9
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I own 3 Novak SS (sold one to Strider, glad that he's happy with it), 1 GTB, 1 sphere competition and 1 sphere ESCs. Pretty much, I'm a brushless maniac.

Based on my experience, the brushless systems are too delicate. They have more wires, glitching, more heat problems and more motor problems. take my GTB for example, Charlie Suangka from Novak asked me to return my GTB to them for replacement due to faulty temperature sensor. They have a new upgrade and I am waiting for my GTB unit.

Of all the Brushless ESCs, my Novak SS ESCs are still standing tough, similar to Uthaya's. After trying all of the units above, sorry to say that I'm now back to basic; V2 motors. Lucky that I have not sold my V2 motors, brushes and motor lathe.

We have a choice, brushless is a new technology for rc car and I have been using it since Dec 2003. No harm in waiting for 1-2 more years for more testing and development.
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Old 03-14-2006, 09:15 PM   #10
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sim

If glitching is an issue, solve it with Spektrum. I solved my brushless glitching problems with Spektrum. You may not need it at Subang Speedway and probably at TT. At glenmarie and Kelang, Spektrum is a must especially if you're running pan cars. Frankly for pan cars, the graphite chassis seems to magnify the motor and esc noises.
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:30 PM   #11
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Hi guys,
Thanks for all the feedback. Keep them coming I am sure people other than myself will find all the info useful.

It does sound like the GTB and original Sphere have their share of issues. From what I've gathered on the forums, some people complained about the BEC of the Sphere, especially when used with early DSM (Spektrum) receivers and also about some weird things happening to programming modes. Not sure if the non-reversible Sphere Competition actually works differently with regards to this. I do like the lifetime warranty and great support that HPC gives to LRP products though. I've had some old LRP ESC's for brushed motors and their BECs worked flawlessly (giving power to the receiver first before the motor even when the battery is almost fully dumped), so I was really surprised to read all the forum reports about the Sphere's erratic behaviour.

As for the GTB, the performance of the esc and the new 4.5 motor is definitely great, but again some people had glitching problems (especially with AM radios and 40Mhz FM radios, according to Charlie Suangka in another forum). Good to know that the Spektrum actually solves this, especially for current spektrum users (unfortunately, I'm a 40Mhz FM guy, so maybe no GTB for me for now). Also, from what I know, the only GTB package available in Malaysia at the moment is the 5.5R package.

And as azmio mentioned, at the moment brushed motors are still more reliable and useful and won't be obsolete for another few years. They seem to be getting a little bit cheaper too. As brushless tech advances though, it will be interesting to see what happens. The possibilities are really quite amazing but at the moment, it looks to me like the main priority should be not more features but more reliability.

Keep the comments coming
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Old 03-14-2006, 11:10 PM   #12
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sim,

the later version of Novak SS is quite reliable. Kamil also told me that Lehner brushless is reliable as well.

The problem with GTB and Sphere is that they are made to handle higher power motors. The development challenges go up exponentially and it's gonna be while before they sort out all the problems.
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Old 06-21-2006, 05:10 AM   #13
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Any feed back from touring guy using GTB with 4.5R
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Old 06-22-2006, 08:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uthaya
SIm ,
mine is the Novak SS 5800 , sensored system .. throttle control is very decent ..
Rudy has schulze esc hooked to a lehner motor .. sensorless system.
tried his buggy .. throttle feels linear too ..

My 2 cents .. future of electric RC = brushless + LiPo
I beleive functionality is already there , just have to work out the performance bugs ...

HI BRO,

uthaya
i have some new stock are and boss interested???

i thought novak super sport + s5800 bl motor is about equal to a 8.5 turn brushed motor? as posted in novak web,


sim,
miss you in action in ikano buggy race, i am using novak ss + s5800 bl motor, ran at local 1/10 track, perform ok la, coz i seen gtb 5.5 perform here, but funny thing is the motor is much cooler compare to my 23t motor, off course different in ratio......i like...
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Old 06-22-2006, 08:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azmio
sim,

the later version of Novak SS is quite reliable. Kamil also told me that Lehner brushless is reliable as well.

The problem with GTB and Sphere is that they are made to handle higher power motors. The development challenges go up exponentially and it's gonna be while before they sort out all the problems.

hi all,

maybe more power will coz more problem.....i c everybody mention that novak ss is almost problem free. i am happy to hear that, i am a bit sad that the SS is not as fast the gtb 5.5, but as long got less problem than ok

was wondering can i hook the gtb 5.5 motor using Novak ss esc?? please give tested answer...i do not want to kill my bl system thanks...
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