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Shabbat: is it Ok to race on Shabbat & Holidays

Shabbat: is it Ok to race on Shabbat & Holidays

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Old 10-25-2009, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by glarepro View Post
yyhayyim,

I think you are missing the point my brother. You need to understand that there is the spirit of the law and there is the letter of the law. The spirit of God's law is obviously God. At some point you have to ask yourself, "Why did God outline to us the importance of the Sabath?"

I did not say that it is not a sin to disobey God. Obviously, disobeying God is clearly a sin. What I am saying is, Racing R/C on the Sabath is not disobeying God. Racing is not work, its Rest & Relaxation. Racing is not work, bathing is not work, eating is not work, walking is not work, feeding your kids is not work.
Concerning the terms "spirit of the law", vs. "letter of the law", those are hebrew terms, and they are not at all what you refer to. Actually I understand them very well, since I've been trained in them during my many years of learning in Yeshiva. They are common terms every knows when introduced to Jewish law, Mishna, Talmud, etc. But since u mention it, let's talk abit about what the terms mean:

Spirit of the Law is the translation of the hebrew "Ruach haTorah", which refers to Oral Law/Tradition. This is how the written law is interpreted and applied in all areas where the written law is not clear or too vague to know what to do in certain situations. In Judaism, the term Spirit of the Law, refers to the interpretation of the of the written law, passed down from generation of Judges and Rabbis from Moses all the way till the present(Deut. 17:11-13). Now all the Jewish books of Law, explain clearly these rulings and decisions at length, and so even according to our own Jewish/Hebraic term "Spirit of the Law", playing around w/ electric/fire is a violation of the Sabath. The point is how to do it without breaking the commandments, i.e., doing it in a permissible manner.

Second, in Judaism, the word for work is "melaha", which has nothing to do with merely doing something, as you claim. In hebrew, the word melaha refers to creating a new, bringing about something new.

There are 39 types of these kinds of labor, which are the basis for the laws of the Sabbath. Just like G-d rested on the 7th day from bringing about new creations(melahot), so to he asks that we do the same. That's why we prepare everything before the 7th day, during the 6 days of the week, so that on the 7th day we don't have to worry about cooking, cleaning a house, washing, etc., since those are activities that by Torah law are forbidden on the Sabbath, since they are weekday labors.

I'd suggest that you read some of the first posts, especially the sections that speak about fire and electricity on the Sabbath, so that you get a bit more background info on the matter, and understand from a Torah point of view, what the problem with "r/c racing" is about.

Again, the problem is not the racing. Just as playing basketball, baseball, soccer, swimming, etc., on the Sabbath are not issues. The problem has to do with doing not violating the basic explicit command of not kindling a light/fire on Shabat.

G-d doen't want us to be lighting fires on the Sabath itself, for many reasons. That's why Jews for millenia have always lite their fires/lights/candles, etc, preparing everything on the eve of the 7th day, so that none of things are done on the 7th day. This way we have light/fire/candles, etc., for the 7th day, and enjoy them, but we do not kindle or turn them on the 7th day, which is forbidden by the G-d of Israel.

Now with reguards to R/C, the issue is with the electronics, as it is with driving a 1:1 car, or turning on anything electric on the Sabath. When you turn on anything electric, you create a new spark/lights, and combustion in gas r/c cars and real cars, which are forbidden on the 7th day by G-d. That's the main issue. This has already been discussed in previous posts.

Now, these laws are in a general sense, and must be violated/broken when there's even a threat to life, much more when someone's life is in danger. The Torah is very clear that human life/safety comes before all commandments. But of course that's not the case here...we're merely talking about a recreational activity. Those are all fine, since they increase the joy of the day of rest, however, we must follow the guidelines G-d gives us so that we don't go against His commandments as we "have fun".

Lastly, let's remember that we don't make up the Laws, nor do we get to tell the Creator what we think His laws aought to be or how we wish to make them up. All of G-d's commandments as written in the Written and Oral Law, are there to provide us with the guidelines and parameters by which to live and be able to judge and determine what is right and wrong, permitted/forbidden, good/bad, etc. It's up to us to live up to them, and if we do, then we are abiding by G-d's laws, and if we choose to not follow them, then we are disobeying- it's simple...

Now again, r/c racing is not the problem. The issue for us Jews is having to deal with electrical/fire aspects of turning the equipment on, blinking lights, combustions, etc, which are forbidden to be done on the Sabath day it self by Oral and Written Law, as noted. Doing this or any activity on the Sabbath is a sin, since its a violation of the Laws of the Sabath. The only reason this or anyother law is OK to break is when there's an issue of concern for our safety or danger to our lives, since our life and safety come first.

Sure we can all come up with own ways doing things, or our own ways of keeping laws, arbitratrily picking what we feel like doing, how we want to do things; bottom line, it's all good, as long we are keeping the law. The laws are there for our protection and benefit, and if we stick to them, we'll have long happy lives

Last edited by yyhayyim; 10-25-2009 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 10-26-2009, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
Concerning the terms "spirit of the law", vs. "letter of the law", those are hebrew terms, and they are not at all what you refer to. Actually I understand them very well, since I've been trained in them during my many years of learning in Yeshiva. They are common terms every knows when introduced to Jewish law, Mishna, Talmud, etc. But since u mention it, let's talk abit about what the terms mean:

Spirit of the Law is the translation of the hebrew "Ruach haTorah", which refers to Oral Law/Tradition. This is how the written law is interpreted and applied in all areas where the written law is not clear or too vague to know what to do in certain situations. In Judaism, the term Spirit of the Law, refers to the interpretation of the of the written law, passed down from generation of Judges and Rabbis from Moses all the way till the present(Deut. 17:11-13). Now all the Jewish books of Law, explain clearly these rulings and decisions at length, and so even according to our own Jewish/Hebraic term "Spirit of the Law", playing around w/ electric/fire is a violation of the Sabath. The point is how to do it without breaking the commandments, i.e., doing it in a permissible manner.

Second, in Judaism, the word for work is "melaha", which has nothing to do with merely doing something, as you claim. In hebrew, the word melaha refers to creating a new, bringing about something new.

There are 39 types of these kinds of labor, which are the basis for the laws of the Sabbath. Just like G-d rested on the 7th day from bringing about new creations(melahot), so to he asks that we do the same. That's why we prepare everything before the 7th day, during the 6 days of the week, so that on the 7th day we don't have to worry about cooking, cleaning a house, washing, etc., since those are activities that by Torah law are forbidden on the Sabbath, since they are weekday labors.

I'd suggest that you read some of the first posts, especially the sections that speak about fire and electricity on the Sabbath, so that you get a bit more background info on the matter, and understand from a Torah point of view, what the problem with "r/c racing" is about.

Again, the problem is not the racing. Just as playing basketball, baseball, soccer, swimming, etc., on the Sabbath are not issues. The problem has to do with doing not violating the basic explicit command of not kindling a light/fire on Shabat.

G-d doen't want us to be lighting fires on the Sabath itself, for many reasons. That's why Jews for millenia have always lite their fires/lights/candles, etc, preparing everything on the eve of the 7th day, so that none of things are done on the 7th day. This way we have light/fire/candles, etc., for the 7th day, and enjoy them, but we do not kindle or turn them on the 7th day, which is forbidden by the G-d of Israel.

Now with reguards to R/C, the issue is with the electronics, as it is with driving a 1:1 car, or turning on anything electric on the Sabath. When you turn on anything electric, you create a new spark/lights, and combustion in gas r/c cars and real cars, which are forbidden on the 7th day by G-d. That's the main issue. This has already been discussed in previous posts.

Now, these laws are in a general sense, and must be violated/broken when there's even a threat to life, much more when someone's life is in danger. The Torah is very clear that human life/safety comes before all commandments. But of course that's not the case here...we're merely talking about a recreational activity. Those are all fine, since they increase the joy of the day of rest, however, we must follow the guidelines G-d gives us so that we don't go against His commandments as we "have fun".

Lastly, let's remember that we don't make up the Laws, nor do we get to tell the Creator what we think His laws aought to be or how we wish to make them up. All of G-d's commandments as written in the Written and Oral Law, are there to provide us with the guidelines and parameters by which to live and be able to judge and determine what is right and wrong, permitted/forbidden, good/bad, etc. It's up to us to live up to them, and if we do, then we are abiding by G-d's laws, and if we choose to not follow them, then we are disobeying- it's simple...

Now again, r/c racing is not the problem. The issue for us Jews is having to deal with electrical/fire aspects of turning the equipment on, blinking lights, combustions, etc, which are forbidden to be done on the Sabath day it self by Oral and Written Law, as noted. Doing this or any activity on the Sabbath is a sin, since its a violation of the Laws of the Sabath. The only reason this or anyother law is OK to break is when there's an issue of concern for our safety or danger to our lives, since our life and safety come first.
Is it ok for a mother who is feeding their newborn baby formula to heat up the bottle with fire or the microwave? Or does she have to give her baby cold milk on the Sabbath because she is not allowed to use fire or electricity??
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by glarepro View Post
Is it ok for a mother who is feeding their newborn baby formula to heat up the bottle with fire or the microwave? Or does she have to give her baby cold milk on the Sabbath because she is not allowed to use fire or electricity??
Yes, 110%- nursing mothers can do what needs to be done or have others do what needs to be for her or the infant to feed, bathe, clothe, burp, wash, change, and any other thing the baby needs done for them to ensure the mothers and infants health are optimal.

Normally this is what is done: Jewish families prepare all meals for grown ups and kids that will be eaten during the Sabbath by friday afternoon before the Sabbath begins. Then we set up warmers, which help warming foods up or keeping foods warm- these are set up and turned on before the Sabbath, and remain on during the Sabbath. They warm everything to about 140F in about 10-15min. Here you warm up all the food/drink you like, like milk for a baby, etc. Others use the warmer feature on their ovens or stoves, setting them up so that they are on before the start of the Sabbath, and then you can use them to warm things up during the Sabbath. So all cold food can be warmed up in a few minutes, without cooking them due to exesive heat or high temp. The main thing is not to turn them on during the Sabbath day itself. This is concerning normal circumstances.

However, if someone forwhatever reason could not prepare food in time, or was ill and could prepare in time, or suffers a breakdown of all equipment, etc, then of course one is allowed to heat things up an do what needs to be done to eat or feed one's children.

For example: Nursing mother for the first 7 days after giving birth, doesn't have to keep the Shabbat laws, since her life and health are at major risk as she recovers from the birthgiving process. Usually after the 14 days, she can start keeping more things, but it all depends on her health and doctor's suppervision. The same goes for newborns/infants...they're health is most important, and we are allowed to do whatever needs to be done to ensure their health is good- so warming up their milk or taking them to doctor appointment or hospital etc, is not only permitted- it is a must!!!
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:33 PM
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I find the Hebrew faith very interesting. To "work" on an Rc car can mean many things. On a good day it means charging batteries and driving and maybe cleaning the motor, on a bad day it could mean tearing the car completely apart to diagnose an issue, To try to tie RC car racing with the scriptures could prove to be difficult. I give you my respect for trying to find the balance. I have a couple of friends who are of the jewish faith and this topic has not been discussed. I will do so. Should be interesting.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:27 AM
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this is the dumbest thread in the world. take a religious discussion to a religious forum. if people want to race on their days of relaxation so be it!!! move on with your life. sit home and read the Torah all day if you want!!!
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Old 07-01-2010, 05:56 PM
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isnt rctech a RC FORUM? why bother taking up server memory for this stuff.

OFF TOPIC and ANNOYING
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:06 AM
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hello its nice & i am new here
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by racingnazy View Post
isnt rctech a RC FORUM? why bother taking up server memory for this stuff.

OFF TOPIC and ANNOYING
Then what the hell are you doing snooping around on this specific thread?
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by vstrok View Post
this is the dumbest thread in the world. take a religious discussion to a religious forum. if people want to race on their days of relaxation so be it!!! move on with your life. sit home and read the Torah all day if you want!!!
This is not a religious discussion, buddy. This is actual way of life and real decisions and applications that have to be made by observat Jews with regards to racing rc vehicles. In short, it is the observant Jewish r/c enthusiast's real life experience in the r/c hobby as a JEW.

Now why would you have a pblm with that?
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by elkman View Post
I find the Hebrew faith very interesting. To "work" on an Rc car can mean many things. On a good day it means charging batteries and driving and maybe cleaning the motor, on a bad day it could mean tearing the car completely apart to diagnose an issue, To try to tie RC car racing with the scriptures could prove to be difficult. I give you my respect for trying to find the balance. I have a couple of friends who are of the jewish faith and this topic has not been discussed. I will do so. Should be interesting.
That is another very good topic, indeed. Is wrenching on our r/c cars permitted ont he Sabbath? To what extent?
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Old 08-26-2010, 08:51 PM
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It really depends on how conservative you are really. If my dad did race his RC he probably wouldn't race on Shabbat because he is conservative for the religion. I myself am not quite as conservative and I do race on Shabbat.
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