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Old 10-02-2007, 08:14 AM
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Stevier, in reference to that BOOK you wrote (I wont quote it because its wayy too long), your writing sounds alot like Jewish elitism and seperatism. Not for nothing, its this elitism/seperatism that has led to the persecution of jews for centuries. To say "another jewish line gone" reads the same way when white supremacists say that about whites marrying non-whites. You may want to monitor what you write, it comes off a bit "holier than thou". Hate to burst your bubble, but you arent any better than the next person because of your jewish identity. God judges everyone the same regardless as to how they worship be they Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu or Buddhist.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by stevier View Post
Beef ones
Ok, But what brand?
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Old 10-24-2007, 10:33 AM
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Who's Torah ?????

I like the dalai lhama, hes cool.
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Old 11-09-2007, 04:02 AM
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I have a question, Im not trying to get at anyone here Im just curious.

God treats every man equally, this is true?

There is a Jewish man, who rarely goes to shul to pray to G-d, and doesnt obey any rules the religoun lays out, There is another Jewish man, who is very religeous and goes to shul regularly. Will G-d treat both these men as equals?
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Old 11-12-2007, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bxpitbull View Post
Hate to burst your bubble, but you arent any better than the next person because of your jewish identity. God judges everyone the same regardless as to how they worship be they Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu or Buddhist.
THe Torah tell us that God's chosen people are the Jewish people because they were the ONLY ones to obey Him in lieu of other gods. Deuteronomy 7:6 says, "For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession."

What are the factors that were involved in God's selection of Israel? His instructions and teachings to mankind, as a whole, had been challenged by a united rebellion of the people against Him at Babel (Genesis 11:1-9), and He then forcibly confounded their languages and divided them into distinct nations.

All of the nations formed as a result of the judgment at Babel were already in rebellion against God and unsuitable for this purpose of learning and living accoring to G-d's laws and teachings and fulfilling our intented purpose.

God, therefore, chose one man, Abraham, to establish a new nation through which "all families of the earth would be blessed." Then G-d continued his covenant with Abraham thru his successor, his son Isaac and then Jacob, and the 12 tribes, who were the foundation for people of Israel, who were chosen by G-d to be his servants and to become a special nation and people that would live according to G-d's instructions and teachings.

According to the Torah, Israel's character as the chosen people is unconditional as it says in Deuteronomy 14:2, "For you are a holy people to YHVH your God, and God has chosen you to be his treasured people from all the nations that are on the face of the earth".

Although the Torah also says, "Now therefore, if you will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people," God promises that He will never exchange the Jewish people with any other.

Although a parable of a man divorcing his unfaithful wife is described in the Prophets-Hosheia, God says, nevertheless, I can never "divorce" My people, and we find a drastic switch from, "Declare them no longer My nation because they are not Mine and I am not theirs" (1:9) and one verse later, God calls the Jewish people "sons of YHVH," a new status (Sifrei, Balak). See also Deutoronomy 14:1.

Other Torah verses about chosenness, "For all the earth is mine: and you shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation" (Exodus 19:5, 6). "The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because you were more in number than any people; for you were the fewest of all people; but because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your ancestors." (Deuteronomy 7:7, 8).

The obligation imposed upon the Israelites is emphasized by the prophet Amos (Book of Amos 3:2): "You only have I singled out of all the families of the earth: therefore will I visit upon you all your iniquities."


Yohan

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Old 11-12-2007, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by JeromeB View Post
I have a question, Im not trying to get at anyone here Im just curious.

God treats every man equally, this is true?

There is a Jewish man, who rarely goes to shul to pray to G-d, and doesnt obey any rules the religoun lays out, There is another Jewish man, who is very religeous and goes to shul regularly. Will G-d treat both these men as equals?
Hello Jerome,

The only way to judge if someone is doing the right thing or not, or deserves some reward or punishment or some good is thru behavior. How be act and behave is the way we can gage what each person deserves.

For example: you are the boss of your business. You have 2 employees who you jsut hired and trained and will begin to work this week. One comes to work late, the other is on time. One doesnt follow the rules and protocol you have set for your employees, while the other one does. One starts not showing up to work, while the other one doesnt miss a day....while you treat both men as equals? When it comes time for raises or promotions, will both be equal in your eyes? Which of these will you entrust your business to?
The answer is obvious!

G-d has created this world for a purpose! We are here because G-d has a plan for our lives. We are here to see if we are good servants of G-d or bad. Who is the good servant? The one that Follows G-d's rules and behaves accoring to G-d's teachings...who are the bad, those that choose to behave and do as they please. A Jew that does what the Torah/G-d asks of him/her, or a non-Jew that lives according to what the G-d of Israel asks of him/her, will reap the rewards of staying true to G-d and his commandments and laws, while those who choose to ignore G-d's laws and choose to live according tot heir own ideas will reap the consequesnces of their behavior...G-d will judge each according to their deeds and reward/punish each deed accordingly in this world and the world to come
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mopar70 View Post
Will you believe wither I give you an answer or not? Questions are fine as long as itís for the pursuit of knowledge and a better understanding. But if itís to come in to a form topic that it dedicated to God to try to tare down ones beliefs and cast stones, thatís not.

I came from Adam not through evolution. I was created in the image of God. Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Just as their are many extinct animals today, the Neanderthal it just an extinct gorilla or beast that man has placed in the line of evolution to show he came from a one cell creature that claimed out of some goop. Evolution is taught as fact, it is far from a fact.
We as people want to believe we are where we are because we have done it.
Evolution was created to give someone a way to try to show where they came from without acknowledging God.
so you discount ALL the evidence that evolution happened? evolution was a continuous process, where thigns slowly changed. maybe one fish had slightly longer fins, which meant it could swim slightly faster than its companions. therefore, it survived to pass on its genes to other fish. so in time the whole population had slightly longer fins. then another one had slightly longer fins etc etc... until different things happen over billions of generations, and you get an amphibian, then a reptile, then a mammal, then finally us. and we're still evolving. and of course, you can see evolution happening around you. why do humans get colds? because the viruses evolve randomly until they become different enough to infect you, so another strain is born. neanderthals were a branch of humans that died out millions of years ago. they had tools, probably a language, CLOTHES (adam and eve, the apple, temptation, original sin eh?) but did not adapt to the rapidly changing world around them. so if after this you still believe that a theological creature made you and me, then you have your head so deep in the sand that you can see the bones of the dinosaurs that ate grass and pranced hand in hand with adam and eve, 5000 years ago.


oh the big bang? no one ever said it was the truth, just another theory. the difference between creationism/intelligent design and the big bang is that the former are hypothesies, the latter a theory. theories need evidence, hypothesies dont need anything.
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Old 11-23-2007, 07:19 AM
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There is no proof what so ever of the evolution theory of creation you have mentioned! not one! Its all assumptions and beliefs from atheists, who are looking for "logical" explanations and answers to the origin of creation and how it all has come about. There is no scientific proof whatsoever that even hints that creation began from some big bang or evolution! It is just a myth, a suggestion and alternative belief from the atheist camp, who do not want to accept what the Torah states concerning G-d and Creation...which is much more logical and sensible to belive than the foolish big bang/evolitionist atheistic invention...

1) Everything has a root cause...all creations, were created by something before it. A tree, came from a seed, which came from another tree, which came from a seed before that, which came from a tree before that, etc...if you trace it all back, at some point there must be an original tree, from which all other trees in its family line followed. Same thing for soil, rocks, minerals, animals, etc...everything finite and created must have an original source or creator from which they all emanated. The universe as a whole must have a begining and source from which it emanated along with all things in it....everything from the biggest galaxy to the most ingsignificant fly must have a source and begining from which they all came forth and began to exist and just be...

2)Mankind, we all have parents who procreated and gave birth to us, and their parents gave birth to our parents, and their parents parents gave birth, etc....each human being alive today has been created from someone who preceded them and created them. We all have been created by our predecessors...which can be traced back generation after generation, and eventually, we all must have come from one original creator/progenitor of us all. One set of parents who gave birth to and engendered all of us...from which we all come from. The original father and mother of us all, could not have been engendered, or else their progenitors are the souce of us all...so therefore, the source and origin must not have been preceded or engendered by "parents", or else they would be the source or origin of said species or thing.

3) The universe and all things created all have a begining point and root cause...the root cause and progenitor of all created things cannot be created, or else he'd also be created and thus finite and have a creator and root cause. There a creator and source of all things created, who was not preceded or created by anything else, who created and is the root cause of all causes and creation.

4) This Source and Creator of all creation cannot be limited or equal in any way to its creations, since limits are placed by creation and its creators, which would mean he was created by someone and limited by its creator...Similarly, there cannot be multiple creators and sources of all things, since there can only be one who be the source and root of all things, an original point and creator of all things created...if there are multiple, one has the be the source and root, which means the other is a creation and limited and subject to the original source.

5) The Creator and Source of all things must have a purpose and plan for creating creation....nothing exists for nothing...everything has a specific purpose and reason for being...the Source and Creator of all creation created and formed all things with great logic, wisdom, and pourpose, corresposning to the function of all things created since they all have a purpose and reason for being. For all things to interact there must be order, and all order and fuction is planned and directed by the maker and creator to ensure everything fuctions and does its job.

6) Everything in creation was created and formed by a Source Creator, who was not preceded or created by something before it, who is the source and author of all creation and root cause of all things, who created all things according to great wisdom and logic and reason and purpose, who is unlimited in any way or form, and has absolute power over all creation and is their Master Source and director in every detail. As human beings, this creator and source of all things, created a pair of original human beings, the frst pair ever, with great wisdom and for a purpose and task in creation,as with the rest of all other things created. They were designed with powers and abilitites for fulfill such purpose and given their task and mission or work to perform within the context of their creation,as with the rest of all creations...

7) This Master and Source of all creation revealed himself to the Jewish People in Mount Sianai over 3,600 yrs ago, after liberating us from the nearly 400 yrs of slavery under Egyptian rule. The Jewish nation numbered over a million people, and The Egyptians were a superpower of the time, and we were their slaves along with other peoples whom they subjugated and enlsaved to work for them as is known...This Creator spoke to us as a whole nation...millions of people who all heard and saw the Creator...not to one person in the middle of no where who claims to be some prophet...No...Every Jew saw and heard how this being brought havoc over the Egyptian superpower with 10 great plagues, which struck them, each toughter than the next, in a methodotical process and showing his power and command of the earth and water, birds animals insects, the heaves and the lumniaries, humans, and all kinds of creation...Untill their supreme ruler had no choice but let us go, so we were allowed to leave Egypt and escape the many years of bondage and suppresion. This Creator spoke to Us as a whole, in eyes of and precense of millions of people and neighboring nations, and revealed himself to us as a nation and revealed his Will and laws for us to follow and live by that we may be succesfull live long and healthy lives, amongst other things....not only did we hear and see the Creator speak to us and the great sings and wonders we saw and witness in the process, but he wrote for us His words in Stone Tablets as an eternal sign and witness to such an event, and had us write a whole book full of teachings and laws, the Torah, essntial for our survival and knowledge of how to live in this world according to the Creator's revealed will and plan/purpose for us...this book is the Torah, which recounts the account of creation by G-d, the Source and Craetor of all things, and how the creation came about, and the reason for creation in general and man in particular, a history of their decendants and story of our decendats and patriarcs, our enslavery in Egypt, and liberation, and G-d's revelation at Sinai and all the laws and teachings and commandments we are to follow and live by as Jews, and non-Jews. Ever since we Jews have lived by the Torah, and have been punished by G-d for not living accordingly and greatly blessed when we have chosen to live by G-d's laws and stick to the plan and purpose, in general and each person accordingly.

In short...there it is...
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Old 11-23-2007, 03:03 PM
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I have 1 concern regarding the creation that the Torah reads, and hopefully you can give me a "logical" answer to this.

The first 2 human beings were adam and eve. They had 2 sons, Cane and Abel. Cane killed Abel, and Cane was banished from the the garden of eden, and he went to the land of Nod - he then begot a wife.

Where did she come from? Which creation did she form part on?
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JeromeB View Post
I have 1 concern regarding the creation that the Torah reads, and hopefully you can give me a "logical" answer to this.

The first 2 human beings were adam and eve. They had 2 sons, Cane and Abel. Cane killed Abel, and Cane was banished from the the garden of eden, and he went to the land of Nod - he then begot a wife.

Where did she come from? Which creation did she form part on?
By the time the account of Kain and Hevel (abel) took place, Adam and Hava (eve) had already been expelled from the Garden many years before that...in fact, hundreds of years had passed by already. They had many more children after being banished, and they in turn had many children, etc, and had begun to settle in other areas...so that by the time the story of Kain and Abel took place they had distant cousins and "political" family spread out in different areas a the time...that's why he went to the land of Nod and found a "wife" there, since they were somewhat "family"...also, many years went by before he actually "married":
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Old 11-28-2007, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
There is no proof what so ever of the evolution theory of creation you have mentioned! not one! Its all assumptions and beliefs from atheists, who are looking for "logical" explanations and answers to the origin of creation and how it all has come about. There is no scientific proof whatsoever that even hints that creation began from some big bang or evolution! It is just a myth, a suggestion and alternative belief from the atheist camp, who do not want to accept what the Torah states concerning G-d and Creation...which is much more logical and sensible to belive than the foolish big bang/evolitionist atheistic invention...
actually, there is more proof than you can possibly imagine! how do you explain the fact viruses evolve before our very eyes? and how do you explain the burgess shale? surely all those creatures couldn't just have been created and then destroyed?

so, logical? a theological being created us all, as we are? i call that filling in the gaps with rubbish. as you would pack the gaps in a ships's timbers with tarred roap to make it watertight. but it doesn't hold forever. there is probable truth (evolution) leaking through the holes in the ship of utter drivel.

if you trace back the line of a tree, you will find subtle differences over it's ancestors, all the way back to a lump of slime or something similar. creationism is an old fashioned way of looking at the world. but it doesnt stand up to the huge amounts of evidence that are stacked up against it. name me one peice of evidence that your theological presence created us. just one. and for every one you find, there are a thousand more against it.

and back on the true subject of the thread. so you're not allowed to do anything relating to electricity. does static electricity count? you build up huge charges of thousands of volts whenever you move, and sometimes, tiny sparks are created. does this mean you can't move on saturdays?
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Old 12-15-2007, 04:16 PM
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Evolution is a mere theory! Its not fact! There is no definite scientifical proof that validates evolution! This is the only fact. Its merely taught as fact and accepted by such when these theories began to be publically taught in schools only 50 yrs ago...kids that grew up in the public school systems promoting the atheist/secularist agenda were taught this, and this is what they belive...but there is no scintific proof at all.

Scientists have no clue whatsoever how Creation came in to being...all they have is mere suggestions and theories, like the big bang, evolution, etc...but no real concrete definite answer...

Besides, scientists have already discovered true scientific proof that humans did not evolve at all from primates, as evolutionists and atheists have foolishly preached all these years...this has been published recently, a few months ago.

If you want logical proof that there is a true G-d and Creator of all things, who created all things and sustains all, you should refer back to my post a few places up, where I give you about 7 simple premises...if you would take the time to look at them and think a bit, you would logically, and reasonably have to conclude that must be a G-d, First Cause, Intelligent Being and Creator of all things...go back and read them and then let me know point by point...

About the Sabbath, the prohibition about lighting a flame on the Sabath or using electricity, is simply that. We are not allowed to turn on a flame, candle, light, stove, etc, on the Sabath. Electricity is a derrvative if it, and we are therefore not allowed to turn electrical switches, or electronical appliances on the Sabath...the idea is not create a new fire or light for our personal use...

the static electricity you speak of, only applies when one deliberately rubs ones feet on a rug and delibreatly tries to make sparks and light something, if such a thing was possible...such a thing would be prohibited. But our mere biological ultra micro electro-pulses and magnetisms vital and key in our organs and body's function, has nothing to do with purposely trying to light a fire or flame, etc...The Torah doesnt prohibit our bodily function from ceasing on the Sabath nor expects us to shut off on the Sabath...this would mean some kind of clinical death...which is the opposite of G-d and Torah and its commandments, which are all about life, law, morality, ethics, and justice, purity, holiness, etc...
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:44 PM
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There is proof of evolution. There are many creatures or animals that are capable of changing their physical form to adapt to the changing habitat. That is proof that we can see happening with our own eyes, in days, weeks or months.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by joe of loath View Post
actually, there is more proof than you can possibly imagine! how do you explain the fact viruses evolve before our very eyes? and how do you explain the burgess shale? surely all those creatures couldn't just have been created and then destroyed?

so, logical? a theological being created us all, as we are? i call that filling in the gaps with rubbish. as you would pack the gaps in a ships's timbers with tarred roap to make it watertight. but it doesn't hold forever. there is probable truth (evolution) leaking through the holes in the ship of utter drivel.

if you trace back the line of a tree, you will find subtle differences over it's ancestors, all the way back to a lump of slime or something similar. creationism is an old fashioned way of looking at the world. but it doesnt stand up to the huge amounts of evidence that are stacked up against it. name me one peice of evidence that your theological presence created us. just one. and for every one you find, there are a thousand more against it.

and back on the true subject of the thread. so you're not allowed to do anything relating to electricity. does static electricity count? you build up huge charges of thousands of volts whenever you move, and sometimes, tiny sparks are created. does this mean you can't move on saturdays?
Joe do you believe in God?
Do you believe the Bible or Torah to be true?

Either you believe it all or nothing. Because if some of it is wrong than you can't stand on any of it. I believe it all.
I can go back and forth with you over eveloution but you already have made it a fact and my head is in the sand right!
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Old 12-19-2007, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mopar70 View Post
Joe do you believe in God?
Do you believe the Bible or Torah to be true?

Either you believe it all or nothing. Because if some of it is wrong than you can't stand on any of it. I believe it all.
I can go back and forth with you over eveloution but you already have made it a fact and my head is in the sand right!
i find the best viewpoint in life is an impartial one. so no, i am not religious. i find it only breeds contempt, whether it be for another religion, or for people who have chosen to be free of the bonds of theism.
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