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Old 11-25-2002, 03:30 AM   #1
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Default HPI vs Associated

Since this is a 'warm' topic i decided to start a new thread just to hear u guys out..
I was considering to buy a hpi rtr but mid-way (and after placing a $25 deposit) i discovered that rtr tc3 would be a better idea considering all the opinions and proven race results.
Now Im in a terrrrible dilemma as to which to choose..............
But many of u ppl r a little leaned towards assoc. cars , why?Is HPI that bad?Do they give less value for money or do they not sponsor enufff to get some wins at races?To me..even tho i dont actually own a car yet , a fast car is one with less weight , more batt. power , high chassis strength(for high speed cornering) , and good electronics and motor.Would brand really make that much of a difference?
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Old 11-25-2002, 05:13 AM   #2
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Default Re: HPI vs Associated

Quote:
Originally posted by lee82gx
high chassis strength(for high speed cornering)
well... this rules out the HPI cars in general...

The Pro3 is not a bad car. It'll just take you hundreds of dollars to bring it up to the performance level of other top-notch cars.

Paul
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Old 11-25-2002, 09:31 AM   #3
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The "Brand" doesnt really matter but the difference between the 2 cars you are looking at is huge. I would classify the RTR TC3 as a Ready to Run Race Car and the HPI RTR as a Ready to Run Hobby Car. The biggest diffences between the two are the geometry of the suspension components and the quality of the material. The plastic of the HPI is softer but not very stiff. It will take more bashing around in a parking lot but will flex alot under high speed racing action.
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Old 11-25-2002, 01:04 PM   #4
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Lee,

I think to best answer to your question, you really need to ask yourself... What am I planning on doing with the car ? Basic street bashing, or Racing ? If bashing, what does it matter, get which ever.., that said, the HPI prolly will be more durable. If your going to race, my opinion is to go with the TC3, just a better platform to build on. For that matter, any know what spec the XXX-s RTR is ? That may be an option for you too.
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Old 11-25-2002, 01:11 PM   #5
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If you are looking at the Sprint RTR, I would stay away from it. It is just a backyard basher, not a real race car. The Pro3 is the only car HPI makes that is realy intended to compete at high levels.
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Old 11-25-2002, 06:27 PM   #6
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thanks for the input guys.but even if i do intend to race someday/sometime , wouldn't it be advisable that i bash around my parking lot first before i get really serious and stuff?cos this is my 1st time man.....i think if i get a competitive car it would quite a lot of support(financially) and if i lose at races bcos of my inexperience i would be quite put of.If i lost bcos i was using an inferior car then at least i have something else to blame HEHE.
And the main point is ...i also intend to get another car (a mid/high end like TA04) in a few months.So all is not lost.I would race that one and practice with the Sprint(yeah guys i think that is whaht i'll do)That will also teach me what difference a good and bad car is .
PS.we chinese have a saying: to learn to run u must first learn to walk
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Old 11-26-2002, 02:51 AM   #7
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Hi guys. Greetings from Malta.

LEE.

Agreed about Chinese saying. But it doesn't mean you can't walk with a good car.

If your intention is to get a good race car in a while, go for the basic TC3 now. This will give you time to learn all about it. Then go for an FTTC3 when you feel you are ready to race. You will already have all the experience you need with regard to tuning the car, and you won't have to start from scratch again. And you will have probably collected quite a few parts on the way.

Just the advice of an old man!

And by the way, the best way to learn is to start at the deep end. Start racing. Don't worry about making a fool of yourself the first couple of times. We've all been there. I know guys that have been racing for years and still make fools of themselves. I'm one of them.

So long as you enjoy it.........go for it!

Good luck.

Joe from sunny Malta.
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Old 11-26-2002, 03:25 AM   #8
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I agree 100% with JohnBull... the basic TC3 Racer is already an excellent car, way better than any HPI, especially a low-end model like the Sprint. Plus all you learn with it you can reuse with a higher-end Team or Factory Team TC3! In addition to this the TC3 requires almost no maintenance as opposed to a belt car... which is better for beginners who want to play rathe rthan wrench on the car. And once again, Johnbull is right, go racing as soon as you can...you'll learn way faster, plus that's where the real fun is at!

Last comment: the TA04 is not a mid/high end car... it's 100* mid-end. It won't be a big step up the Sprint. Don't bother.

Paul from rainy Switzerland
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Old 11-26-2002, 03:40 AM   #9
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thanks for all the advice ppl.
I just spoke to my LHS (hpi only) and there's no way i can get back my deposit
I will stick by the sprint (actually we R bashing it up more than it deserves-for a real bargain-entry-level kit).If before it arrives i can come up with $100 bucks more then i will buy a PRO3 ( any kindred soul up for a loan?-thought not )
but the truth is-bottom line-i get what i pay for and i will not regret buying an imcompetent car bcos thats all i can afford.
maybe after i get my degree and hold a steady job then i will thrash my money around on FTTC3's and Xrays and Yokomo's.

Another question though...whats the difference towards my cheap1500 nicads if i use overnight chargers instead of those fast chargers(something bout the charge rate?).if i do get some better batteries do i need good chargers?wil overnight chargers spoil my batteries?
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Old 11-26-2002, 04:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by lee82gx
thanks for all the advice ppl.
I just spoke to my LHS (hpi only) and there's no way i can get back my deposit
I will stick by the sprint (actually we R bashing it up more than it deserves-for a real bargain-entry-level kit).If before it arrives i can come up with $100 bucks more then i will buy a PRO3 ( any kindred soul up for a loan?-thought not )
but the truth is-bottom line-i get what i pay for and i will not regret buying an imcompetent car bcos thats all i can afford.
maybe after i get my degree and hold a steady job then i will thrash my money around on FTTC3's and Xrays and Yokomo's.

Another question though...whats the difference towards my cheap1500 nicads if i use overnight chargers instead of those fast chargers(something bout the charge rate?).if i do get some better batteries do i need good chargers?wil overnight chargers spoil my batteries?
I dont know your local prices, but what about the HPI Rally? It aint RTR, but it take a lot of abuse and are really nice for bashing? Okay, maybe it's too expensive, I dont know, but I'll suggest you check it out. The Rally can quite easily be turned into a touring car later.

About chargers: This is the worse point to save money on. In the long run a cheap charger means ruined batteries. It also means a slower car. If you got some soldering experience and a little electronic know-how, I'll suggest you find an old computer and re-use the power supply. This can be done very very cheap. I forgot the link, but somewhere on the net, there's a nice how-to instruction on converting PC power supplys into nice 12 VDC supplys. Alternatively, get an old car battery. Now, you only need a peak detection charger. Even the cheapest ones are better than a over-night or timer charger.
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Old 11-26-2002, 05:36 AM   #11
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Default

I had found same link some time and contacted the person. Even though I don't remember the link I do have the directions out of an email he sent me!

Here it is

After trying for several days to figure out how to get instructions out
>I've settled on this. I've done a small diagram in mspaint and sent it out.
>It shows the connections you nee to make an has a parts list. Due to
>several folks having hotmail and yahoo accounts I can't get the photos to
>go through. So...
>
>Basicly there are two ways to go at this. One is to make the all the
>connections on the outside of the powersupply without openning the case.
>Not really neat and a little ackward but it works. The prefered way is to
>do the mod inside the case. Much neater and less chance of shorting out
>something.
>
>Most all supplys are similar with the exception that some use multipule
>Yellow wires for +12volts and some use multipule Orange wires. There are
>always several odd colored individual wires along with the power wires.
>These can be clipped off and discareded. They aren't used. To find the +12
>and +5 volt wires remove the cover and usually in one corner of the board
>there will be several Yellow,Red and Black wires all grouped together. The
>board should have +12 and +5 marked on it. Keep these groups bundled
>together.
>
>Since various supplys have different layouts inside you need to workout
>your own arrangement of the Capacitors and Resistors. I try to mount my
>resistors standing upright with one end through the board at the +5 volt
>buss. Just keep in mind that the resistors will get a bit warm, so place
>them somewhere in the case that air from the fan can move across them if
>possable. If you are not going to be using the +5volt tap for anything then
>just run half the black wires and all the red wires to the resistors and
>one capacitor and terminate.
>The capacitors can be placed anywhere. They do not get warm and they are
>well insulated.
>
>The number of resistors is mostly dependent on the output of the supply. I
>use a basic rule of thumb. Use 2 resistors for a supply that is rated at
>220 watts or under. Use 3-4 on supplys that are rated 230 watts or more.
>The number of resistors determines the +12 volt output of volts and amps,
>up to a point. In most cases 2 resistors on a 220 watt ps will yeald about
>10 amps or so. This depends on the charger and if you are "flex" charging
>or not. On higher rated supplys you should get double the amps with more
>resistors.
>
>The +12volt tap is usually very sensitive to power spikes so you really
>need twin capacitors or the supply will trip off when you attach a battery
>pack or charger. Not a problem, just annoying. Just turn off the supply and
>turn back on to reset. The 5volt tap is much less sensitive to spikes, but
>use at least one cap if you are going to be using the +5volts for a motor
>lathe or breakin station. In this case, I recommend using a MSC like the
>Traxxas rotory speed control. It is very flat and bolts nicely to the side
>of the supply. You don't have to use a MSC but the supply will usually trip
>off a lot without the soft start of the MSC. It's just much easier on the
>unit to use one. Last caution, don't connect a lightbulb or motor of any
>type across the 12volt output. It will usually fry the supply instantly.



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Old 11-26-2002, 06:04 AM   #12
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Ok...
anybody understand that?
well actually i do have plenty of old Pc power supplies(my family sells computers!!)
but i lost u when u went into the +5/+12V thing .I do know how to solder and get the right capacitors,diodes,resistors.
can u explain step by step what to do ?I prefer the none opening the power supply method .thanks.
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Old 11-26-2002, 06:09 AM   #13
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Few more things...what's a peak detection charger?is it easy to use?I read something about 2 peaks/false peaks or something.Is there a difference in the chraging current(like 5A or 4A)?So these peak detection chargers , can they control the charging current?Most importantly , are the cheap ones any good and are the good ones very expensive?I'm more than very confused about charging batteries.
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Old 11-26-2002, 06:40 AM   #14
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Maybe I can find the link to the How-To guide - it's much more easy, with pictures too. Tomorrow....

In the meantime: The principle in the PC PS conversion, is to place a resistor on the 5 volt section (Usually the red wire). Now the 12 works. The 12 volt scetion, is often the yellow wire. By opening the cabinet, it's normally easy to identify the zero volt (black) and the 5 and the 12 volt. Wire colors differs from brand to brand.

The resistor used, should be in the range 2-5 ohms / 10 watt.

I reccomend the method, where you open the cabinet and mount the resistor inside. Otherwise theres heat problems (the resisot DO get hot) and all in all it's easier to handle the PS, when the resistor is mounted inside.

About chargers: A peak charger measure the voltage on the batteries. This way, the charger know when to stop.

For NiCd, the charger detects when the battery voltage start decreassing. Voltage drop are as small as 0,01 volt. This happens very fast, so I wont recommend to do it manually.

For NiMh, the charger usually detects when the voltage dont increase anymore. This is even harder to do manually.

Prices and products vary a lot, depending on location. Where I live, You can get a decent peak charger with AC/DC power supply for around 60-70$. Without the AC power supply, I think they start around 40.

Remember: Your batteries arent any better than your charger !
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Old 11-26-2002, 12:41 PM   #15
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This is interesting because I tried using a Computer ps a couple of years ago.

The 5 volt side worked great for my lathe.
The 12 volt side didn't hold voltage well enough to charge. When I was charging at 5-6 amps, the output voltage would drop to around 10 volts. For some of my older packs this wasn't cutting it. Was my ps just a piece?

Why are you placing a resistor on the 5 volt side? By putting a load on the 5v side does that increase the 12 volt output. Get technical, I can take it!!
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