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Xray T4 18

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Old 07-17-2018, 03:49 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: Xray T4 18
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Welcome to the XRAY T4'18 Thread & Wikipost! Here you will find some useful info, tips and tricks as well as setups that are used by several team drivers. This wikipost is a work in progress and should continue to develop over time. Feel free to add anything you feel is useful to the community!

New for 2018:
Similar to 2017, the T4'18 kit comes available in the U.S. with either a Graphite chassis (Part no. XRA300024), or Aluminum Flex chassis (Part no. XRA300024A) along with all of the great features introduced last year. We recommend the Graphite chassis for starting on asphalt, and the Aluminum Flex for starting on carpet. The big changes for 2018 are much lower center of gravity, courtesy of the Ultra Low Profile (ULP) shocks/towers and narrower weight distribution by shifting the motor in towards the center-line of the car. In moving the motor closer to the center, the topdeck and layshaft bulkheads have been re-designed. Also new this year, the motor mount includes more holes which extend further toward the rear of the car to improve traction. With the new shorter shocks, the 2018 will use the same springs as previous T4 models.

What's NEW at T4 2018? Convert your '17 to '18 specs with these parts:

- NEW chassis plate (3 options to chose from, Graphite, Aluminum, Alum. Flex)
- NEW topdeck
- NEW ULP shocks (4mm shorter than 2017)
- NEW ULP shock towers (4mm shorter than 2017)
- NEW Motor mount (1mm narrower than 2017)
- NEW Motor mount plate
- NEW layshaft bulkheads
- NEW 51mm ECS ES driveshafts

301145 T4'18 CHASSIS 2.2MM GRAPHITE
301199 T4'18 UPPER DECK 2.0MM GRAPHITE
302084 ULP SHOCK TOWER FRONT 3.0MM GRAPHITE
303001-O T4'18 ALU LAYSHAFT BULKHEAD RIGHT - ORANGE
303002-O T4'18 ALU MOTOR MOUNT - ORANGE
303003-O T4'18 ALU MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - ORANGE
303085 ULP SHOCK TOWER REAR 3.0MM GRAPHITE
305221 ECS (ES) DRIVE SHAFT 51MM FOR 2MM PIN - HUDY SPRING STEEL(tm) (1)
305334 ECS ES (EXTRA STRONG) DRIVE SHAFT 51MM - HUDY SPRING STEEL(tm) - SET
308043-O ULP ALU SHOCK ADJUSTABLE NUT - ORANGE (2)
308308-O ULP ALU SHOCK ABSORBER-SET - ORANGE (2)
308324 ULP ALU SHOCK BODY (2)
308334 ULP COMPOSITE SHOCK PARTS
308354-O ULP ALU SHOCK CAP-NUT WITH VENT HOLE - ORANGE (2)

Tips & Tricks:

Alex Hagberg's Tech Tip Tuesday articles

How to mount your Protoform LTC-R Body
Setting static camber
How to mount weight on your chassis Part1
How to mount the rear wing on Protoform bodies
Simple troubleshooting guide
How to mount the battery on your chassis
How to glue your front tires for CRC Black carpet with Eric Anderson
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing Exponential and RMode
How to mount weight on your chassis Part2
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing TH-Hold

ULP Shock:

Building the new ULP Shock w/ Zero Rebound by Dominic Quek

Team driver Tim Wahl posted some very useful build tips for the T4'16 on Facebook as he worked through building a new kit. These tips will still apply on the current model.

1- Carbon Parts
2-Suspension
3-Solid Axle and Differential
4-Bulkheads & Drivetrain
5-Driveshaft (ECS & CVD)
6-Front & Rear Suspension
7-Tweak
8-Anti-Roll Bar
9-Battery Fix (OPTIONAL)
10-Bumper & Body
11-Shocks
12-Steering

Center Brace:
The manual indicates using a 2mm shim under the center brace when attaching to the chassis plate. The gap is actually 3mm, so a 3mm shim should be used here.

Tuning Note:
On Carpet we have found that adding screws or doubling up the graphite brace will make the car react quicker to steering input, & change direction faster. Raising the graphite brace off of the aluminum bulkheads by placing a shim under it on the front and rear holes will reduce response. Using the tie-rod will reduce initial response to input, but will generate more in-corner traction or 'side-bite'. Using no brace will generate even more of this 'side-bite' but all of this is at the expense of corner speed. Best to use the tie-rod or no brace only in low-traction conditions. Additionally, the center brace increases forward traction, so removing it will potentially increase wheel-spin out of low speed corners.

New Graphite Hubs:
Xray have recently released some additional Graphite hubs for the T4 lineup. The 4 Graphite C-Hub has been out for some time and is known to improve steering on entry, and in general makes the car turn better. This has been the go-to c-hub on asphalt for many on the Xray team, though it is not needed on high bite carpet. The Graphite rear hub tends to make the car more stable, especially on corner entry. We are still working on gathering input on the new Graphite steering block, but for the moment feel that it should improve steering response. All Graphite parts are approximately 1g lighter than the Hard or Medium options.

ARS Tuning courtesy of Ed (TryHard):
If you set the ARS up with no shims under either inside or outside ball positions, it actually adds toe-in under compression, at around 1 at 5.2mm ride height (how much it adds depends how much the car compresses, obviously )

Adding shims reduces the amount added (1mm under one of the links gives about 0.5), until the link has 2mm worth of shims (1mm either side, or 2mm on one side) makes the ARS neutral. Adding more shims then turns it into reducing toe in under compression.

Whilst that might sound a bit backwards, it's actually not quite as simple as it sounds. By having the links to add toe, you gain forward traction. Also consider as the car rolls, the inside wheel is in negative compression, and the outside in compression. So the inside is toe-ing out, and the outside toe-ing in, so the whole rear is then 'steering' in the direction of the turn. Obviously the inside wheel has a lot less influence than the outside as it's far less loaded, but the effect is still there.

Optional & Tuning Parts to consider:

XRA301146 T4'18 ALU CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6 **For very high traction** (Approx. 108g)
XRA301147 T4'18 ALU FLEX CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6 **For high traction** (Approx. 93g)
XRA301169 T4'18 UPPER DECK 1.6MM GRAPHITE
XRA302254 Composite Steering Block - Graphite
XRA302334 Aluminum C-Hub Block - Caster
0 - Orange **Only for ARS**
XRA302383 Composite C-Hub Right 4
- Graphite (ECS) **Not recommended for high traction**
XRA302384 Composite C-Hub Left 4
- Graphite (ECS) **Not recommended for high traction**
XRA302711 Brass Front Lower 1-Piece Suspension Holder - Front - FF
XRA302803 1.3mm Front Anti-Roll Bar

XRA303360 Composite Upright 0 Outboard Toe-In - Graphite
XRA303802 1.2mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar

XRA305137 Steel Solid Axle Driveshaft Adapters - HUDY Spring Steel **Highly recommend**
XRA305242 Composite Drive Shaft Replacement Cap 3.5mm Orange Strong (QTY 4)

XRA305351 Aluminum Wheel Hub Offset -0.75mm Black (QTY 2)
XRA305352 Aluminum Wheel Hub - Offset
+0.75mm - Black (QTY 2)
XRA306191 T4 Graphite + Aluminum Fully Adjustable Battery Holder
XRA308029 ULP ALU PROGRESSIVE SHOCK SYSTEM - SET (2) **Only for asphalt**
XRA308264 4S Spring-Set Progressive C=2.5-2.8 (QTY 2)

XRA308276 4S Spring-Set C=2.7 (QTY 2)
XRA308286 4S Spring-Set C=2.6 (QTY 2)

Recent Setups:
7-Oct - Alexander Hagberg - IIC - High Traction Carpet - Mod Q2, P2
7-Oct - Craig Xavier - IIC - High Traction Carpet - SuperStock Q5, P5

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Old 08-11-2018, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by didrace View Post
Guys i am just about to buy a t4 18 and serpent 4x evo. Some say buy the serpent and you wont regret it. Does anyone have any experience with both cars to give me some help on my choice?
A pretty good driver at my local track had both cars at the same time. He's not only a decent driver, but very technical and detailed about everything. He ended up keeping his xray and selling the Serpent after about 8 weekends of running it. That's all I know
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by didrace View Post
Guys i am just about to buy a t4 18 and serpent 4x evo. Some say buy the serpent and you wont regret it. Does anyone have any experience with both cars to give me some help on my choice?
The Xray, being a bit more on the traditional, set-up wise is always a good choice. The Serpent on the other hand is a bit more "technical", in that it requires a more "in depth" understanding of the suspension geometries. They are both very good cars as is the Awesomatix, so your choice would depend on your understanding of chassis dynamics.
That's my opinion on the subject, take it for what you will...
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Old 08-11-2018, 10:07 AM
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Well i was thinking the following. If i buy the xray i will save some money as now is a bit cheaper. However in a few months the 19 version is coming out and i will regret it maybe. The other thing i was thinking is that the xray is a platform that every year changes and rarely you can convert the previous car to the other. The serpent i think it will be a platform that it will convert every change they make. On the other hand this new design that serpent developed it might seem nice but i would like to find out what happens when you put the two platforms on the racing track. Thats all that it matters for me. I need to see which car os faster easier to drive. I think that is what i am looking for. The track that i will be running is asphalt and is quite loose.
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Old 08-11-2018, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by didrace View Post
Well i was thinking the following. If i buy the xray i will save some money as now is a bit cheaper. However in a few months the 19 version is coming out and i will regret it maybe. The other thing i was thinking is that the xray is a platform that every year changes and rarely you can convert the previous car to the other. The serpent i think it will be a platform that it will convert every change they make. On the other hand this new design that serpent developed it might seem nice but i would like to find out what happens when you put the two platforms on the racing track. Thats all that it matters for me. I need to see which car os faster easier to drive. I think that is what i am looking for. The track that i will be running is asphalt and is quite loose.
What are you serious!!!

it is easy to upgrade the T4 from one version to another and has been from the introduction of the T4 platform. Normally there are a few improvements, but all the parts to upgrade are readily available. In fact it is one of the benefits of running the Xray T4.
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Old 08-11-2018, 10:52 AM
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Xray aren't like Apple. When the 19 comes out Xray won't come round and loosen all the bolts on your 18 to slow it down. It will still be just as good, and will be better than the 4x will ever be with any number of upgrades.

The T4 hasn't really changed significantly in years. Each year is a small change over the previous one.
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Old 08-11-2018, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by didrace View Post
Well i was thinking the following. If i buy the xray i will save some money as now is a bit cheaper. However in a few months the 19 version is coming out and i will regret it maybe. The other thing i was thinking is that the xray is a platform that every year changes and rarely you can convert the previous car to the other. The serpent i think it will be a platform that it will convert every change they make. On the other hand this new design that serpent developed it might seem nice but i would like to find out what happens when you put the two platforms on the racing track. Thats all that it matters for me. I need to see which car os faster easier to drive. I think that is what i am looking for. The track that i will be running is asphalt and is quite loose.
You're gonna want a T4.
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Old 08-11-2018, 10:57 PM
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Serpent may be good for low grip. But without an anti-roll bar, cg would stay high during cornering and will not be as good as anti-roll bar cars (where cg lowers as car leans) in high grip conditions. In theory
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Old 08-16-2018, 04:10 PM
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I would say the Serpent and the Awesomatix are for more advanced racers that know setup. The Serpent seems pretty complicated and not many people run them in the U.S. and parts support isn't there.

The T4 is a proven chassis and there's lots of support and setups for every condition.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by trigger View Post
You're gonna want a T4.

no, he should go for the 4x or the a800x for now. Then cant figure things out or breaking more than racing. After experiencing that he will come back and appreciate a Xray. Get a Xray now he will only ichi for the others.
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JEFFs SC10 View Post
I would say the Serpent and the Awesomatix are for more advanced racers that know setup. The Serpent seems pretty complicated and not many people run them in the U.S. and parts support isn't there.

The T4 is a proven chassis and there's lots of support and setups for every condition.
Totally agree. In some conditions the 4X is good but the setup window is kind of small. I think the team (which in Europe is like one person) still trying to make it work more consistent. The recently upgraded parts seem to be a step in the right condition. I used to run the 4X but bought an T4 2017 and out of the box, I drove a lot faster and more consistent. I would say that my car works in every condition with just some small adjustments. And the setup database is huge.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:57 AM
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Hi all,

i am also new to this forum (ran trf). I just finished reading it from the begining .
What is the recommended shock shaft & lenght for ets carpet? (Kit, dramelled kit or rcmission 1mm shorter version). Is pss recommended for carpet and shorter hex?

many thanks,
Marton
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:23 PM
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Question, I’m looking at getting a used xray t4. Getting a 16 and upgrading, is the cost of doing that going to be cost effective and be competitive enough? I’m being realistic, not expecting to be competing for a podium out of the box. I know driver skill can make up for a lot but I don’t want to spend too much and then need more car in 6 months. The track I’ll be running will be asphalt.

Thanks
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Hundo View Post
Question, Im looking at getting a used xray t4. Getting a 16 and upgrading, is the cost of doing that going to be cost effective and be competitive enough? Im being realistic, not expecting to be competing for a podium out of the box. I know driver skill can make up for a lot but I dont want to spend too much and then need more car in 6 months. The track Ill be running will be asphalt.

Thanks
just run it as a 16. The cost to upgrade with new parts will be hideous.

- chassis and top deck
- mount mount, plate and layshaft mount
- servo mount
- servo plate
- shock towers
- shocks
- centre brace

easy $350-$450 with all that.

plus technically the bumper and front drive shafts are also different.

You can get away without a servo mount, but then cant run a centre brace. For asphalt its 50/50 if you want the SLP or ULP shocks also.
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:44 PM
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Thanks! Thats exactly what I wanted to know. Ill be running asphalt this year and next year were moving to Texas. Texas there seems to be more carpet tracks. More 1/8 cars that run on asphalt out there.

Thanks again 👍



Originally Posted by cplus View Post


just run it as a 16. The cost to upgrade with new parts will be hideous.

- chassis and top deck
- mount mount, plate and layshaft mount
- servo mount
- servo plate
- shock towers
- shocks
- centre brace

easy $350-$450 with all that.

plus technically the bumper and front drive shafts are also different.

You can get away without a servo mount, but then cant run a centre brace. For asphalt its 50/50 if you want the SLP or ULP shocks also.
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Old 08-19-2018, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Hundo View Post
Question, Im looking at getting a used xray t4. Getting a 16 and upgrading, is the cost of doing that going to be cost effective and be competitive enough? Im being realistic, not expecting to be competing for a podium out of the box. I know driver skill can make up for a lot but I dont want to spend too much and then need more car in 6 months. The track Ill be running will be asphalt.

Thanks
I'd try to buy a 17 or 18 if possible. I didn't really like my 16 and I race asphalt.
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