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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Xray T4 18
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Welcome to the XRAY T4'18 Thread & Wikipost! Here you will find some useful info, tips and tricks as well as setups that are used by several team drivers. This wikipost is a work in progress and should continue to develop over time. Feel free to add anything you feel is useful to the community!

New for 2018:
Similar to 2017, the T4'18 kit comes available in the U.S. with either a Graphite chassis (Part no. XRA300024), or Aluminum Flex chassis (Part no. XRA300024A) along with all of the great features introduced last year. We recommend the Graphite chassis for starting on asphalt, and the Aluminum Flex for starting on carpet. The big changes for 2018 are much lower center of gravity, courtesy of the Ultra Low Profile (ULP) shocks/towers and narrower weight distribution by shifting the motor in towards the center-line of the car. In moving the motor closer to the center, the topdeck and layshaft bulkheads have been re-designed. Also new this year, the motor mount includes more holes which extend further toward the rear of the car to improve traction. With the new shorter shocks, the 2018 will use the same springs as previous T4 models.

What's NEW at T4 2018? Convert your '17 to '18 specs with these parts:

- NEW chassis plate (3 options to chose from, Graphite, Aluminum, Alum. Flex)
- NEW topdeck
- NEW ULP shocks (4mm shorter than 2017)
- NEW ULP shock towers (4mm shorter than 2017)
- NEW Motor mount (1mm narrower than 2017)
- NEW Motor mount plate
- NEW layshaft bulkheads
- NEW 51mm ECS ES driveshafts

301145 T4'18 CHASSIS 2.2MM GRAPHITE
301199 T4'18 UPPER DECK 2.0MM GRAPHITE
302084 ULP SHOCK TOWER FRONT 3.0MM GRAPHITE
303001-O T4'18 ALU LAYSHAFT BULKHEAD RIGHT - ORANGE
303002-O T4'18 ALU MOTOR MOUNT - ORANGE
303003-O T4'18 ALU MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - ORANGE
303085 ULP SHOCK TOWER REAR 3.0MM GRAPHITE
305221 ECS (ES) DRIVE SHAFT 51MM FOR 2MM PIN - HUDY SPRING STEEL(tm) (1)
305334 ECS ES (EXTRA STRONG) DRIVE SHAFT 51MM - HUDY SPRING STEEL(tm) - SET
308043-O ULP ALU SHOCK ADJUSTABLE NUT - ORANGE (2)
308308-O ULP ALU SHOCK ABSORBER-SET - ORANGE (2)
308324 ULP ALU SHOCK BODY (2)
308334 ULP COMPOSITE SHOCK PARTS
308354-O ULP ALU SHOCK CAP-NUT WITH VENT HOLE - ORANGE (2)

Tips & Tricks:

Alex Hagberg's Tech Tip Tuesday articles

How to mount your Protoform LTC-R Body
Setting static camber
How to mount weight on your chassis Part1
How to mount the rear wing on Protoform bodies
Simple troubleshooting guide
How to mount the battery on your chassis
How to glue your front tires for CRC Black carpet with Eric Anderson
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing Exponential and RMode
How to mount weight on your chassis Part2
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing TH-Hold

ULP Shock:

Building the new ULP Shock w/ Zero Rebound by Dominic Quek

Team driver Tim Wahl posted some very useful build tips for the T4'16 on Facebook as he worked through building a new kit. These tips will still apply on the current model.

1- Carbon Parts
2-Suspension
3-Solid Axle and Differential
4-Bulkheads & Drivetrain
5-Driveshaft (ECS & CVD)
6-Front & Rear Suspension
7-Tweak
8-Anti-Roll Bar
9-Battery Fix (OPTIONAL)
10-Bumper & Body
11-Shocks
12-Steering

Center Brace:
The manual indicates using a 2mm shim under the center brace when attaching to the chassis plate. The gap is actually 3mm, so a 3mm shim should be used here.

Tuning Note:
On Carpet we have found that adding screws or doubling up the graphite brace will make the car react quicker to steering input, & change direction faster. Raising the graphite brace off of the aluminum bulkheads by placing a shim under it on the front and rear holes will reduce response. Using the tie-rod will reduce initial response to input, but will generate more in-corner traction or 'side-bite'. Using no brace will generate even more of this 'side-bite' but all of this is at the expense of corner speed. Best to use the tie-rod or no brace only in low-traction conditions. Additionally, the center brace increases forward traction, so removing it will potentially increase wheel-spin out of low speed corners.

New Graphite Hubs:
Xray have recently released some additional Graphite hubs for the T4 lineup. The 4° Graphite C-Hub has been out for some time and is known to improve steering on entry, and in general makes the car turn better. This has been the go-to c-hub on asphalt for many on the Xray team, though it is not needed on high bite carpet. The Graphite rear hub tends to make the car more stable, especially on corner entry. We are still working on gathering input on the new Graphite steering block, but for the moment feel that it should improve steering response. All Graphite parts are approximately 1g lighter than the Hard or Medium options.

ARS Tuning courtesy of Ed (TryHard):
If you set the ARS up with no shims under either inside or outside ball positions, it actually adds toe-in under compression, at around 1° at 5.2mm ride height (how much it adds depends how much the car compresses, obviously )

Adding shims reduces the amount added (1mm under one of the links gives about 0.5°), until the link has 2mm worth of shims (1mm either side, or 2mm on one side) makes the ARS neutral. Adding more shims then turns it into reducing toe in under compression.

Whilst that might sound a bit backwards, it's actually not quite as simple as it sounds. By having the links to add toe, you gain forward traction. Also consider as the car rolls, the inside wheel is in negative compression, and the outside in compression. So the inside is toe-ing out, and the outside toe-ing in, so the whole rear is then 'steering' in the direction of the turn. Obviously the inside wheel has a lot less influence than the outside as it's far less loaded, but the effect is still there.

Optional & Tuning Parts to consider:

XRA301146 T4'18 ALU CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6 **For high traction**
XRA301147 T4'18 ALU FLEX CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6 **For very high traction**
XRA301169 T4'18 UPPER DECK 1.6MM GRAPHITE
XRA302254 Composite Steering Block - Graphite
XRA302334 Aluminum C-Hub Block - Caster
0° - Orange **Only for ARS**
XRA302383 Composite C-Hub Right – 4
° - Graphite (ECS) **Not recommended for high traction**
XRA302384 Composite C-Hub Left – 4
° - Graphite (ECS) **Not recommended for high traction**
XRA302711 Brass Front Lower 1-Piece Suspension Holder - Front - FF
XRA302803 1.3mm Front Anti-Roll Bar
XRA303360 Composite Upright 0° Outboard Toe-In - Graphite
XRA303802 1.2mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar
XRA305137 Steel Solid Axle Driveshaft Adapters - HUDY Spring Steel **Highly recommend**
XRA305242 Composite Drive Shaft Replacement Cap 3.5mm – Orange – Strong (QTY 4)
XRA305351 Aluminum Wheel Hub – Offset “-0.75mm” – Black (QTY 2)
XRA305352 Aluminum Wheel Hub - Offset
“+0.75mm” - Black (QTY 2)
XRA306191 T4 Graphite + Aluminum Fully Adjustable Battery Holder
XRA308029 ULP ALU PROGRESSIVE SHOCK SYSTEM - SET (2) **Only for asphalt**
XRA308264 4S Spring-Set Progressive C=2.5-2.8 (QTY 2)

XRA308276 4S Spring-Set C=2.7 (QTY 2)
XRA308286 4S Spring-Set C=2.6 (QTY 2)


Recent Setups:
7-Oct - Alexander Hagberg - IIC - High Traction Carpet - Mod Q2, P2
7-Oct - Craig Xavier - IIC - High Traction Carpet - SuperStock Q5, P5

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Old 09-14-2017, 10:46 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Making a shorter shock is far less expensive than making a different arm

The Gizmo has "gullwing geometry". Much like the Schuei, this allow to run a slightly longer shock and still have them sit lower on the car. Our car with longer shocks than the XRAY (2mm total longer), the shocks sit 2-3mm lower than on the T4 for example. With Short shocks, the difference is about 5mm. I personally think there is a benefit to the higher volume shock on asphalt though, and find myself using the original longer shocks more and more as they give a slight bit more steering.

I have not been able to identify the reason much, but I am starting to think it is the extra volume. I have played around with yokomo shock caps, which fit the xray shocks and make the shocks 2mm shorter to try to see if it is the geometry that makes a difference. What I have observed is that by using yokomo caps and the longer shocks, while essentially having the same length shock, the feel is still not the same. The longer shock gives more mid corner steering and overall a more responsive feel. The CG difference is negligible at best because by making it 2mm shorter, I can run the same towers.

On Carpet the effect is typically the same, however the shorter shocks mellow out the car and make it easier to drive hard, which I think translates into better laptimes.

I think we are getting to the point where cars have to be built slightly different for asphalt than carpet to maximize performance. We already are partly there, by running alloy vs carbon, shocks should be on that list if you ask me...
BOOM BOOM BOOM. Agreed!
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:18 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Making a shorter shock is far less expensive than making a different arm

The Gizmo has "gullwing geometry". Much like the Schuei, this allow to run a slightly longer shock and still have them sit lower on the car. Our car with longer shocks than the XRAY (2mm total longer), the shocks sit 2-3mm lower than on the T4 for example. With Short shocks, the difference is about 5mm. I personally think there is a benefit to the higher volume shock on asphalt though, and find myself using the original longer shocks more and more as they give a slight bit more steering.

I have not been able to identify the reason much, but I am starting to think it is the extra volume. I have played around with yokomo shock caps, which fit the xray shocks and make the shocks 2mm shorter to try to see if it is the geometry that makes a difference. What I have observed is that by using yokomo caps and the longer shocks, while essentially having the same length shock, the feel is still not the same. The longer shock gives more mid corner steering and overall a more responsive feel. The CG difference is negligible at best because by making it 2mm shorter, I can run the same towers.

On Carpet the effect is typically the same, however the shorter shocks mellow out the car and make it easier to drive hard, which I think translates into better laptimes.

I think we are getting to the point where cars have to be built slightly different for asphalt than carpet to maximize performance. We already are partly there, by running alloy vs carbon, shocks should be on that list if you ask me...
Perhaps, we will what happens with Schumacher's next car. They can manufacture in house one off parts for suspension for testing, not sure about the shocks, they used to do everything a long time ago. I do agree about the two cars though it's been heading that way for a while. This car will be a beast on carpet I am sure, and at least match the Awesomatix if not better it
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:51 AM   #63
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:57 PM   #64
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HURRY UP ALREADY!!!!!!!! All these little spy shots is driving me bonkers man
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Old 09-14-2017, 03:56 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Making a shorter shock is far less expensive than making a different arm

The Gizmo has "gullwing geometry". Much like the Schuei, this allow to run a slightly longer shock and still have them sit lower on the car. Our car with longer shocks than the XRAY (2mm total longer), the shocks sit 2-3mm lower than on the T4 for example. With Short shocks, the difference is about 5mm. I personally think there is a benefit to the higher volume shock on asphalt though, and find myself using the original longer shocks more and more as they give a slight bit more steering.

I have not been able to identify the reason much, but I am starting to think it is the extra volume. I have played around with yokomo shock caps, which fit the xray shocks and make the shocks 2mm shorter to try to see if it is the geometry that makes a difference. What I have observed is that by using yokomo caps and the longer shocks, while essentially having the same length shock, the feel is still not the same. The longer shock gives more mid corner steering and overall a more responsive feel. The CG difference is negligible at best because by making it 2mm shorter, I can run the same towers.

On Carpet the effect is typically the same, however the shorter shocks mellow out the car and make it easier to drive hard, which I think translates into better laptimes.

I think we are getting to the point where cars have to be built slightly different for asphalt than carpet to maximize performance. We already are partly there, by running alloy vs carbon, shocks should be on that list if you ask me...
If we're lucky we will be able to simply use the T4'17 towers, then '17 shocks
will fit with no mods.

If they are bigger bore, how long until RSD bring out some machined nylon pistons?
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:38 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Making a shorter shock is far less expensive than making a different arm

The Gizmo has "gullwing geometry". Much like the Schuei, this allow to run a slightly longer shock and still have them sit lower on the car. Our car with longer shocks than the XRAY (2mm total longer), the shocks sit 2-3mm lower than on the T4 for example. With Short shocks, the difference is about 5mm. I personally think there is a benefit to the higher volume shock on asphalt though, and find myself using the original longer shocks more and more as they give a slight bit more steering.

I have not been able to identify the reason much, but I am starting to think it is the extra volume. I have played around with yokomo shock caps, which fit the xray shocks and make the shocks 2mm shorter to try to see if it is the geometry that makes a difference. What I have observed is that by using yokomo caps and the longer shocks, while essentially having the same length shock, the feel is still not the same. The longer shock gives more mid corner steering and overall a more responsive feel. The CG difference is negligible at best because by making it 2mm shorter, I can run the same towers.

On Carpet the effect is typically the same, however the shorter shocks mellow out the car and make it easier to drive hard, which I think translates into better laptimes.

I think we are getting to the point where cars have to be built slightly different for asphalt than carpet to maximize performance. We already are partly there, by running alloy vs carbon, shocks should be on that list if you ask me...
Are your Gizmo shocks the same bore as the T4 shocks? Are they off the NT1'13 (big bore, slightly longer than a T4 shock), or NT1'14+ (small bore, long like a T3 shock)?

It would be interesting to try a big-bore longer shock. The new Mugen has shocks that have 1.5mm more travel than the Xray ones, so it'll be interesting to see how they get on. First BRCA this weekend since the Mugen was released.
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Last edited by daleburr; 09-15-2017 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:43 AM   #67
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That wasn't the reason the team drivers were adding the shims, at least, not the ones I've spoken to.
It's what Jan told me a month or so ago. And when I took them out and looked, he was right.
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:26 AM   #68
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Default Graphite or alu flex

Which is better graphite or alu flex chassis? Track is flat concrete painted with high grip surface about 10 sec. a lap.
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:31 AM   #69
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Here it is: https://teamxray.com/t4/2018/
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:58 AM   #70
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Surprisingly not much has changed. I guess the car has matured enough that we will see small incremental changes. Still looks good.
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:12 AM   #71
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I don't think I'll be bothering with the 18. I'll stick with my longer shock 17 and 1mm further out motor.
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:17 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by WagwanBumba View Post
I don't think I'll be bothering with the 18. I'll stick with my longer shock 17 and 1mm further out motor.
If you didn't already have the '17, and were shopping for a T4, would you pick up the '17 or '18?
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:19 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Vega View Post
Surprisingly not much has changed. I guess the car has matured enough that we will see small incremental changes. Still looks good.
Significant changes has occurred that will certainly change the handling characteristics. The biggest change is the lower center gravity with the shocks and towers. The improved centerline flex is going to be a big improvement in stock racing for sure.

In stock racing if you don't have a T4'18 or an Awesomatix your packing it up. Not sure if this will help in mod? I'll know soon as I get my hands on one as I have the T4'14. I'm certainly getting one
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:40 AM   #74
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Funny, the shocks are the last thing I thought they would change.
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:50 AM   #75
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Umm, still no inboard battery stop - WTF?
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