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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Xray T4 18
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Welcome to the XRAY T4'18 Thread & Wikipost! Here you will find some useful info, tips and tricks as well as setups that are used by several team drivers. This wikipost is a work in progress and should continue to develop over time. Feel free to add anything you feel is useful to the community!

New for 2018:
Similar to 2017, the T4'18 kit comes available in the U.S. with either a Graphite chassis (Part no. XRA300024), or Aluminum Flex chassis (Part no. XRA300024A) along with all of the great features introduced last year. We recommend the Graphite chassis for starting on asphalt, and the Aluminum Flex for starting on carpet. The big changes for 2018 are much lower center of gravity, courtesy of the Ultra Low Profile (ULP) shocks/towers and narrower weight distribution by shifting the motor in towards the center-line of the car. In moving the motor closer to the center, the topdeck and layshaft bulkheads have been re-designed. Also new this year, the motor mount includes more holes which extend further toward the rear of the car to improve traction. With the new shorter shocks, the 2018 will use the same springs as previous T4 models.

What's NEW at T4 2018? Convert your '17 to '18 specs with these parts:

- NEW chassis plate (3 options to chose from, Graphite, Aluminum, Alum. Flex)
- NEW topdeck
- NEW ULP shocks (4mm shorter than 2017)
- NEW ULP shock towers (4mm shorter than 2017)
- NEW Motor mount (1mm narrower than 2017)
- NEW Motor mount plate
- NEW layshaft bulkheads
- NEW 51mm ECS ES driveshafts

301145 T4'18 CHASSIS 2.2MM GRAPHITE
301199 T4'18 UPPER DECK 2.0MM GRAPHITE
302084 ULP SHOCK TOWER FRONT 3.0MM GRAPHITE
303001-O T4'18 ALU LAYSHAFT BULKHEAD RIGHT - ORANGE
303002-O T4'18 ALU MOTOR MOUNT - ORANGE
303003-O T4'18 ALU MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - ORANGE
303085 ULP SHOCK TOWER REAR 3.0MM GRAPHITE
305221 ECS (ES) DRIVE SHAFT 51MM FOR 2MM PIN - HUDY SPRING STEEL(tm) (1)
305334 ECS ES (EXTRA STRONG) DRIVE SHAFT 51MM - HUDY SPRING STEEL(tm) - SET
308043-O ULP ALU SHOCK ADJUSTABLE NUT - ORANGE (2)
308308-O ULP ALU SHOCK ABSORBER-SET - ORANGE (2)
308324 ULP ALU SHOCK BODY (2)
308334 ULP COMPOSITE SHOCK PARTS
308354-O ULP ALU SHOCK CAP-NUT WITH VENT HOLE - ORANGE (2)

Tips & Tricks:

Alex Hagberg's Tech Tip Tuesday articles

How to mount your Protoform LTC-R Body
Setting static camber
How to mount weight on your chassis Part1
How to mount the rear wing on Protoform bodies
Simple troubleshooting guide
How to mount the battery on your chassis
How to glue your front tires for CRC Black carpet with Eric Anderson
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing Exponential and RMode
How to mount weight on your chassis Part2
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing TH-Hold

ULP Shock:

Building the new ULP Shock w/ Zero Rebound by Dominic Quek

Team driver Tim Wahl posted some very useful build tips for the T4'16 on Facebook as he worked through building a new kit. These tips will still apply on the current model.

1- Carbon Parts
2-Suspension
3-Solid Axle and Differential
4-Bulkheads & Drivetrain
5-Driveshaft (ECS & CVD)
6-Front & Rear Suspension
7-Tweak
8-Anti-Roll Bar
9-Battery Fix (OPTIONAL)
10-Bumper & Body
11-Shocks
12-Steering

Center Brace:
The manual indicates using a 2mm shim under the center brace when attaching to the chassis plate. The gap is actually 3mm, so a 3mm shim should be used here.

Tuning Note:
On Carpet we have found that adding screws or doubling up the graphite brace will make the car react quicker to steering input, & change direction faster. Raising the graphite brace off of the aluminum bulkheads by placing a shim under it on the front and rear holes will reduce response. Using the tie-rod will reduce initial response to input, but will generate more in-corner traction or 'side-bite'. Using no brace will generate even more of this 'side-bite' but all of this is at the expense of corner speed. Best to use the tie-rod or no brace only in low-traction conditions. Additionally, the center brace increases forward traction, so removing it will potentially increase wheel-spin out of low speed corners.

New Graphite Hubs:
Xray have recently released some additional Graphite hubs for the T4 lineup. The 4° Graphite C-Hub has been out for some time and is known to improve steering on entry, and in general makes the car turn better. This has been the go-to c-hub on asphalt for many on the Xray team, though it is not needed on high bite carpet. The Graphite rear hub tends to make the car more stable, especially on corner entry. We are still working on gathering input on the new Graphite steering block, but for the moment feel that it should improve steering response. All Graphite parts are approximately 1g lighter than the Hard or Medium options.

ARS Tuning courtesy of Ed (TryHard):
If you set the ARS up with no shims under either inside or outside ball positions, it actually adds toe-in under compression, at around 1° at 5.2mm ride height (how much it adds depends how much the car compresses, obviously )

Adding shims reduces the amount added (1mm under one of the links gives about 0.5°), until the link has 2mm worth of shims (1mm either side, or 2mm on one side) makes the ARS neutral. Adding more shims then turns it into reducing toe in under compression.

Whilst that might sound a bit backwards, it's actually not quite as simple as it sounds. By having the links to add toe, you gain forward traction. Also consider as the car rolls, the inside wheel is in negative compression, and the outside in compression. So the inside is toe-ing out, and the outside toe-ing in, so the whole rear is then 'steering' in the direction of the turn. Obviously the inside wheel has a lot less influence than the outside as it's far less loaded, but the effect is still there.

Optional & Tuning Parts to consider:

XRA301146 T4'18 ALU CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6 **For high traction**
XRA301147 T4'18 ALU FLEX CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6 **For very high traction**
XRA301169 T4'18 UPPER DECK 1.6MM GRAPHITE
XRA302254 Composite Steering Block - Graphite
XRA302334 Aluminum C-Hub Block - Caster
0° - Orange **Only for ARS**
XRA302383 Composite C-Hub Right – 4
° - Graphite (ECS) **Not recommended for high traction**
XRA302384 Composite C-Hub Left – 4
° - Graphite (ECS) **Not recommended for high traction**
XRA302711 Brass Front Lower 1-Piece Suspension Holder - Front - FF
XRA302803 1.3mm Front Anti-Roll Bar
XRA303360 Composite Upright 0° Outboard Toe-In - Graphite
XRA303802 1.2mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar
XRA305137 Steel Solid Axle Driveshaft Adapters - HUDY Spring Steel **Highly recommend**
XRA305242 Composite Drive Shaft Replacement Cap 3.5mm – Orange – Strong (QTY 4)
XRA305351 Aluminum Wheel Hub – Offset “-0.75mm” – Black (QTY 2)
XRA305352 Aluminum Wheel Hub - Offset
“+0.75mm” - Black (QTY 2)
XRA306191 T4 Graphite + Aluminum Fully Adjustable Battery Holder
XRA308029 ULP ALU PROGRESSIVE SHOCK SYSTEM - SET (2) **Only for asphalt**
XRA308264 4S Spring-Set Progressive C=2.5-2.8 (QTY 2)

XRA308276 4S Spring-Set C=2.7 (QTY 2)
XRA308286 4S Spring-Set C=2.6 (QTY 2)


Recent Setups:
7-Oct - Alexander Hagberg - IIC - High Traction Carpet - Mod Q2, P2
7-Oct - Craig Xavier - IIC - High Traction Carpet - SuperStock Q5, P5

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Old 09-13-2017, 11:31 PM   #46
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Last edited by syndr0me; 09-13-2017 at 11:39 PM. Reason: Figured it out.
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Old 09-14-2017, 03:44 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
Not really hard to tell with a bit of zoom, can see the exposed front of the bearing...
Ahh yes been too busy to have a proper look, shouldn't need to shim the top deck anymore as well. Proper release coming tomorrow
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:56 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
So the shocks will be lowered with a combination of shorter bodies and shorter plastics?
Wouldn't have thought they could go much shorter without compromising something.
Spring retainers already almost touch the wishbones.
Perhaps as you've mentioned, higher volume.

Certainly won't be getting rid of my std shock sets yet in case they work better outdoors etc.

Interested to see what they've done
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:01 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Bar View Post
Ahh yes been too busy to have a proper look, shouldn't need to shim the top deck anymore as well. Proper release coming tomorrow
Haven't 'needed' to shim the top deck on the '17 as the layshaft mounts were lowered, but most drivers do as it seems to give better traction.
In the pics we have so far the top deck is too far away from the front belt to be different to the current version.

Wonder if the bulkheads are different to allow for the bearing carriers, which are either mounted incorrectly in the pics or have changed (flange is on the outside in the pics)
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Last edited by Skiddins; 09-14-2017 at 06:12 AM.
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:16 AM   #50
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Haven't 'needed' to shim the top deck on the '17 as the layshaft mounts were lowered, but most drivers due as it seems to give better traction.
The reason for the shimming on the 15/16 was to stop it hitting the mounts, yes. But on the 17, you actually do still need it as under flex the top deck hits the bearing on one side causing some tweak
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:13 AM   #51
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The reason for the shimming on the 15/16 was to stop it hitting the mounts, yes. But on the 17, you actually do still need it as under flex the top deck hits the bearing on one side causing some tweak
That wasn't the reason the team drivers were adding the shims, at least, not the ones I've spoken to.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:13 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Haven't 'needed' to shim the top deck on the '17 as the layshaft mounts were lowered, but most drivers due as it seems to give better traction.
In the pics we have so far the top deck is too far away from the front belt to be different to the current version.

Wonder if the bulkheads are different to allow for the bearing carriers, which are either mounted incorrectly in the pics or have changed (flange is on the outside in the pics)
Yeah ran it all year, still gives more traction as the top deck is still too close to the layshaft. Looks like a smaller layshaft bearing, finally
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:19 AM   #53
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We talked to Bruno at Euros 1/8E Buggy few weeks back. He said on carpet the car is a monster and they found nice set-up, already faster than with T4 2017! On asphalt a different story at the moment, the old car with bigger shocks works better but they think it’s just a matter of shock set-up… oil/spring combo.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:28 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Geberit View Post
We talked to Bruno at Euros 1/8E Buggy few weeks back. He said on carpet the car is a monster and they found nice set-up, already faster than with T4 2017! On asphalt a different story at the moment, the old car with bigger shocks works better but they think it’s just a matter of shock set-up… oil/spring combo.
This is the issue that I was worrying about, guys racing indoors will love it, guys outdoor we shall see I guess.... Which is why I would like to see two versions one for highgrip indoors/outdoors(flat) and one for low to med outdoors inc bumpy tracks, T3 shock perhaps
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:37 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Bar View Post
This is the issue that I was worrying about, guys racing indoors will love it, guys outdoor we shall see I guess.... Which is why I would like to see two versions one for highgrip indoors/outdoors(flat) and one for low to med outdoors inc bumpy tracks, T3 shock perhaps
I will keep my T4 17 only for this reason also buy the new one and test it back to back...

We also ride on low to medium grip asphalt.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:43 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geberit View Post
We talked to Bruno at Euros 1/8E Buggy few weeks back. He said on carpet the car is a monster and they found nice set-up, already faster than with T4 2017! On asphalt a different story at the moment, the old car with bigger shocks works better but they think it’s just a matter of shock set-up… oil/spring combo.
That would be my expectation. Particularly once you throw in bumps and curbs. Not totally sure it can be fixed with springs/oil if what's really lacking is travel and space above/below the piston. I think if the piston gets too close to the bladder or shock bottom then the bladder/bottom interferes with the flow of oil over the piston and through the holes. Or maybe it's a suction effect, with the piston attaching to the bladder.

In the UK on particularly bumpy tracks the team drivers sometimes run the old T3 shocks to good effect.

I won't be selling my old cars just yet!
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:10 AM   #57
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I don't understand why not a single manufacture has implemented rotary shocks besides Awesomatix and why not a single manufacture has implemented gull wing arms besides Schumacher. Both designs solve all of the issues with shorter shocks.
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:27 AM   #58
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I don't understand why not a single manufacture has implemented rotary shocks besides Awesomatix and why not a single manufacture has implemented gull wing arms besides Schumacher. Both designs solve all of the issues with shorter shocks.
Because it's not necessarily a better option the design of the gull wing arms that Schumacher use on their onroad car are very stiff in their design. They will probably end up being dropped if or when Schumacher go to a shorter shock. It was most likely done to save money, they would of had to produce a brand new shorter shock otherwise
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:20 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Bar View Post
Because it's not necessarily a better option the design of the gull wing arms that Schumacher use on their onroad car are very stiff in their design. They will probably end up being dropped if or when Schumacher go to a shorter shock. It was most likely done to save money, they would of had to produce a brand new shorter shock otherwise
Not sure if I agree with the argument that no short shocks because Schumacher didn't want to design them. The shock bodies for the Mi5 and Mi6 are actually different.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:42 AM   #60
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Making a shorter shock is far less expensive than making a different arm

The Gizmo has "gullwing geometry". Much like the Schuei, this allow to run a slightly longer shock and still have them sit lower on the car. Our car with longer shocks than the XRAY (2mm total longer), the shocks sit 2-3mm lower than on the T4 for example. With Short shocks, the difference is about 5mm. I personally think there is a benefit to the higher volume shock on asphalt though, and find myself using the original longer shocks more and more as they give a slight bit more steering.

I have not been able to identify the reason much, but I am starting to think it is the extra volume. I have played around with yokomo shock caps, which fit the xray shocks and make the shocks 2mm shorter to try to see if it is the geometry that makes a difference. What I have observed is that by using yokomo caps and the longer shocks, while essentially having the same length shock, the feel is still not the same. The longer shock gives more mid corner steering and overall a more responsive feel. The CG difference is negligible at best because by making it 2mm shorter, I can run the same towers.

On Carpet the effect is typically the same, however the shorter shocks mellow out the car and make it easier to drive hard, which I think translates into better laptimes.

I think we are getting to the point where cars have to be built slightly different for asphalt than carpet to maximize performance. We already are partly there, by running alloy vs carbon, shocks should be on that list if you ask me...
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