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Old 01-25-2006, 07:37 PM   #106
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Each cell's chemical composition determines its voltage. Something about covalent electrons and other fancy words. Borrow your local high school's chemistry book or the internet for more info. Lithium Poly are 3.6-7.. these others may be mixed up but - Lithium Ion was 3v, Lithium 2.8v. These are numbers from years ago but you get the point.
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:08 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Greg Sharpe
Earlier I said it will be interesting to see where this goes. But I just can't agree with slowing the cars down. I want to go faster. Are we really in need of slower cars?
That's my point. I totally agree. While I think we deperately need to define and enforce a class for a beginner, we also need a class for speed freaks!!
I want to go faster and if I smash into something (barriers lately) and break a few parts, then I get to re-build. To me that's fun.........
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:25 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpetrich
That's my point. I totally agree. While I think we deperately need to define and enforce a class for a beginner, we also need a class for speed freaks!!
I want to go faster and if I smash into something (barriers lately) and break a few parts, then I get to re-build. To me that's fun.........
Thanks,
Matt

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Old 01-25-2006, 08:27 PM   #109
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Rebuilding is theraputic (sp)
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:34 PM   #110
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I have been watching this thread with great interest and as a fairly new racer (almost 2 years racing) I love watching the skill that is displayed by the front running mod drivers and one day I hope to be able to run with them.
Ok so it does cost alot to race mod but that is part of racing if you ask me.
I just hope that we can keep a class like mod where drivers can race their cars at such high speeds.
I think that something needs to be done about the Stock (27T) class because at my club it's the people with big $$$ who buy 3800 and now 4200 batteries who keep dominating.
Just my 2c
Nick
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:44 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plucked_camel
I have been watching this thread with great interest and as a fairly new racer (almost 2 years racing) I love watching the skill that is displayed by the front running mod drivers and one day I hope to be able to run with them.
Ok so it does cost alot to race mod but that is part of racing if you ask me.
I just hope that we can keep a class like mod where drivers can race their cars at such high speeds.
I think that something needs to be done about the Stock (27T) class because at my club it's the people with big $$$ who buy 3800 and now 4200 batteries who keep dominating.
Just my 2c
Nick
Maybe it is recommended for Ifmar and all other organizations to set stock motors to 23turns instead 27turns like in Japan
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:51 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plucked_camel
I think that something needs to be done about the Stock (27T) class because at my club it's the people with big $$$ who buy 3800 and now 4200 batteries who keep dominating.
Just my 2c
Nick
When I was racing against you Nick my 3300's were all around 18 months old on average, I dont have anything larger than 3300's.. I know for a fact the other guys at the top dont have much more than 3300's with some 3700 packs.. Just a tip, the setup of your car on carpet with foams is 90% of where you're loosing out Come see me at the next carpet meeting if you like and i'll explain where you can make your setup more suited to the foams and ozite I'll be in 19t by the way, so no false info
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:52 PM   #113
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It is certainly a difficult task to reduce cost that would be a “win-win” for everyone. I personally don't have the answer, but it definitely is a concern for all around the world racing todays modified.
I don't know if Japan will be success, but if they do then Formula 1 should take some notes. They have been trying for years to slow there cars down. Each year a new set of regulation are put in place to reduce there speed, and by the years end nearly all the teams are beating the times they posted from the previous year.

Just a couple of personal points to note:
  • Racing is better now then several years ago when a quarter of the field would dump across the line because they didn't have batteries to suit there driving.
  • Most big Race Meetings are "Controlled Tire Events" (reducing costs).
  • Several Motor Companies have released "long-life brushes" (reducing cost)

Maybe all we need now is "long-life armatures and magnets"


Regards,
Peter
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Old 01-25-2006, 10:29 PM   #114
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Do rare earth magnets last longer, as well as being more magnety? (that's a technical term) They aren't allowed (IIRC) in current IFMAR/ROAR approved motors but are available.
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Old 01-26-2006, 12:09 AM   #115
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Quote:
Manfredo, stock will always be THE MOST EXPENSIVE FORM OF RACING anyone can be in. When you restrict the motors, you get guys who buy 4, 5, 6, 7 or more motors just for 1 race, and toss them afterwards. Plus, what about the guy who goes to a race with those motors and another motor is "The Motor" to run and the guy just guessed wrong before he came? Well, now he's going to buy 4, 5, 6, 7, or more of the "Better Motor" just to get 2-3 "Good Ones". I think the key with going with 4-cells is to replace 27 Turn "stock" or spec motors with 19T motors.
So when we assume that stock is the most expensive form of racing (which is my opinion too) why does it make sense to anyone to add restrictions to modified racing. Now we are running 7turn Motors with 6 cells. Reducing to 4 cells would make batteries and Motors even more important...

Personally, I think that it is not the worst thing in the wold that not just anybody is able to control a mod touring car. This class is definately not for beginners... So I ask again: what's the point on this rule ?
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Old 01-26-2006, 12:34 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manfredo
So when we assume that stock is the most expensive form of racing (which is my opinion too) why does it make sense to anyone to add restrictions to modified racing. Now we are running 7turn Motors with 6 cells. Reducing to 4 cells would make batteries and Motors even more important...

Personally, I think that it is not the worst thing in the wold that not just anybody is able to control a mod touring car. This class is definately not for beginners... So I ask again: what's the point on this rule ?
They are Japanese,and they like to be different...!!
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Old 01-26-2006, 12:39 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manfredo
Personally, I think that it is not the worst thing in the wold that not just anybody is able to control a mod touring car. This class is definately not for beginners... So I ask again: what's the point on this rule ?
I don't think the intent is to slow down Mod because it's too hard to drive, after all it is the premier class - so it should be tough!

The intent is to slow the cars down so the risk of equipment damage is reduced. Going to 4 or 5 cells would fix this though they create their own problems too.

I would like to hear from some of the motor reps. A few of them have been saying recently that it's the current Mod motor rules that are holding them back - and with more freedom they could build motors which are as quick (if not quicker) without having to over-stress the design like the current motor situation.
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Old 01-26-2006, 01:22 AM   #118
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Cutting costs? Being competitive is ALWAYS expensive! If you're gonna cry about having to replace FET servos, you got issues! But less maintanence is good!

Weight distribution issues? Chassis mods(shifting/reallocate components), New chassis upgrades, Saddle pack chassis, 4 cell side by side sitting sideways like a 12th scale or centerline a la Losi! Ofcourse you can opt with less beefier chassis and other parts, new cars, new everything, back to cost issues?

Somehow I feel going slower makes racing more difficult! Anyone ever tried racing low end spec stuff? ie. silver can motors or trinity street spec? Its slower yes, but you also have to drive more cautiously! Very hard to make up lost time!

Revive(not that it was ever popular) pan-sedans! Assoc 10L3T, CRC Pantoura, Corally CCT! Adaptors for touring rubbers if you want; tamiya is making a F103GT!
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Old 01-26-2006, 01:51 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kufman
After destroying several Reedy Brushless motor systems at the novak race, Barry should be the last person to want lower cell counts. Higher Current = more heat = lower life time electronic stuff.
Actually your wrong.. I run oval which is all 4 cell.. Brushless class is the largest class right now.. i have yet to see a 4 cell brushless motor go bad on the track..Brushless motors do not work like brushed motors. Touring cars are harder on equipement, but i still think the motor would last longer..

With 6 cells your pushing the cars limits every run especially in mod.. the way the batteries keep changing and getting better eventually the speeds will get close again.. Our 4 cell oval speeds are pretty close to what 6 cell was back in the day.. Our local paved track in 2000 had a 6 cell mod record of 42 laps.. our 19 turn cars are doing that and 4 cell mod is doing 44-45 laps now..You get to a point where a car can only handle so much and go so fast...


The other thing i like about it is just like oval.. it took the volatage game away.. Your setup becomes 90% critical now.. yes it works true with 6 cells but even more so with 4...with 4 cells you only go so fast, so every extra little bit is in the chassis..
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Old 01-26-2006, 01:58 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bender
I would like to hear from some of the motor reps. A few of them have been saying recently that it's the current Mod motor rules that are holding them back - and with more freedom they could build motors which are as quick (if not quicker) without having to over-stress the design like the current motor situation.
Yes, but it will cost you double or triple for a motor than now...
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