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Old 01-25-2006, 02:08 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by EddieO
They blew apart.....why, cause the designs can't take the stuff we subject them to........and IFMAR ( I don't blame ROAR for this) decided it was best to not allow any of the motors the top brushless companies were making in (hacker, etc) under the rules....

The Novak's don't blow up much, but they thermal.....the LRP/REEDY units.....they just explode......probably before they can thermal...

Later EddieO
That I think is the biggest issue. IMHO, IFMAR (and I do include ROAR in this) get too much pressure from the "big" name motor companies to approve other brushless motors like Lehner, Hacker, etc.
It just does not make any sense. But you can see from all the posts on RCTECH, the BL/LiPo wave is getting stronger whether or not ROAR, IFMAR or any other governing body wants to acknowledge it.
I don't understand the resistance to embrace new technology. I could go on...but I won't.
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Old 01-25-2006, 02:32 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by mpetrich
I don't understand the resistance to embrace new technology.
Safety and subsequent liability?
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Old 01-25-2006, 02:42 PM   #93
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Safety and subsequent liability?
Please explain. From what I have seen, I think there is more of a safety issue with a car hitting someone (full throttle, no failsafe) then with a motor or battery pack blowing up. Regardless of whether the motor is brushed, BL or the batteries are NiMH or LiPo.
Plus, I don't really see an insurance carrier asking a race director if they allow BL and LiPo's.
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Old 01-25-2006, 02:49 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by mpetrich
Please explain. From what I have seen, I think there is more of a safety issue with a car hitting someone (full throttle, no failsafe) then with a motor or battery pack blowing up.
I've heard that the AMA has had a significant number of insurance claims due to Lipo issues. An insurance carrier definitely would recognize this liability eventually... especially if claims suddenly increased.
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Old 01-25-2006, 03:45 PM   #95
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I can't understand the 4 cell idea .. 5 will be much much better .. you dont have to have a receiver pack.. you still have less tire wear .. less batteries needed.. It will be cheaper to run, but still fast enough.. So 5 batteries with 27t 19t and mod (7 or 8t.. whatever)..

-Hugo
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Old 01-25-2006, 03:56 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by hugovdb
I can't understand the 4 cell idea .. 5 will be much much better .. you dont have to have a receiver pack.. you still have less tire wear .. less batteries needed.. It will be cheaper to run, but still fast enough.. So 5 batteries with 27t 19t and mod (7 or 8t.. whatever)..

-Hugo
I think this would help the best in lowering the cost of racing in all forms of racing. It will slow stock down more(which it should be slower anyway in my opinion) while only making mod less maintenance oriented, and reducing wear on the vehicles. Is similar to when 6 cells was prefered over 7 cells back in early 90's, just as fast, but way less maintenance on the motor. The only draw back is Lipo Batteries, how will they play into this since they are unable to only produce 6 volts in the current configuration.

One example of how 5 cells will not affect the outcome is this past years IFMAR offroad electric world championships when a 5 cell buggy won the title.
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Old 01-25-2006, 04:06 PM   #97
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Now what is the future? Are we aiming on brushed motors or brushless. Most brushless can be programmed through the computer. I have read somewhere that is impossible for some racers to race with speeds over 100km/u. What about nitro onroad cars most of them easily can achieve 100 km/u even the 1/10 cars. It takes practice. I run myself a 1/8scale hydroplane with speeds over 120km/u, Although it needs a lot of concentration it takes practice (and of course a lot of water ) I think the tracks has to be redesigned. We run now mostly technical tracks but if it has longer straights the only problem will be the cooling. What about the introduction of the new LIPO's. Orion is now offering 7.4V packs what about them? Will they come with 4.8V or 5.0V packs?
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Old 01-25-2006, 05:34 PM   #98
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One example of how 5 cells will not affect the outcome is this past years IFMAR offroad electric world championships when a 5 cell buggy won the title.
We are not really talking about the lowest traction, crappiest offroad track ever built here. we are talking about high traction, onroad, with 4wd.

Mr. Unlimited,
a single lipoly cell puts out 3.7 volts so 7.4 is two cells in series. the next step down in lipo would be way under 4 cells of NiMH.


Quote:
Safety and subsequent liability?
Everything is dangerous, even NiMH and NiCAD's, much less a gallon of alocohol with nitro in it. I have seen 3300's blow up and it isn't pretty.
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Old 01-25-2006, 06:18 PM   #99
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Getting a pack blown up in your face is no walk in the park. I know several guys whos packs have exploded and sent shrappnel flying towards me. It hurts
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Old 01-25-2006, 06:19 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kufman
We are not really talking about the lowest traction, crappiest offroad track ever built here. we are talking about high traction, onroad, with 4wd.
maybe not, but the only difference between those who ran 6 cells and those who only ran 5 cells was 1 turn in the motor, they had the same speed. I know the track had a shortage of traction, but the reference is the fact that 5 cells was able to accelerate and keep the same speeds as a 6 cells pack. I would also bet that the wear on the motor(even in a lower turn motor) was greatly reduced. I remember when 7 cells was legal, you could run a 7 cell pack and a stock motor and out perform a 14 turn, just the motor required a lot more maintenance so it was benificial to run 6 cells with a 10 turn(if both run with 6 cells only, the 10 turn required way more maintenance than the stocker, but add 1 cell to the stocker, it wore out and needed rebuilding more often than the 10 turn with only 6 cells).

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Mr. Unlimited,
a single lipoly cell puts out 3.7 volts so 7.4 is two cells in series. the next step down in lipo would be way under 4 cells of NiMH.
What depicks the reason the Lipo Battery must be built with a certain voltage. Could the Lipo Industry change what the starting voltage of a lipo cell from 3.7 to say 3.0?

Please do not take me wrong, I acept every view on this, for I am just trying to understand better why people keep wanting more power(is evident because Lipo is rated at a higher voltage and people like its rip due to that extra little voltage) when 15 years ago we dropped from 7 cells down to 6 cells.
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Old 01-25-2006, 06:22 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by kufman
Everything is dangerous, even NiMH and NiCAD's, much less a gallon of alocohol with nitro in it. I have seen 3300's blow up and it isn't pretty.
Sure. But the claims are coming in for Lipo specifically. An insurance agent is more worried about that.

I'm not saying Lipo's won't or shouldn't be the future of electric RC. I'm just trying to add some perspective to the lack of acceptance so many people rant about.
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Old 01-25-2006, 06:39 PM   #102
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What depicks the reason the Lipo Battery must be built with a certain voltage. Could the Lipo Industry change what the starting voltage of a lipo cell from 3.7 to say 3.0?
I am not sure what controls this or why NiMH are 1.2V per cell. I would have to say that it is cell geometry that conforms to some industry standard. Maybe is has to do with the voltage you get from a particular chemical reaction. I am not really sure. It does seem to be a universal standard though. Even when you look at Li Ion packs for laptops and phones they have the same voltages (3.7, 7.4, and 11.3). My best guess is that it is a chemical thing relating to the materials used. Akaline is 1.5, NiCD and NiMH are 1.2, Lipoly and Li-Ion are 3.7.
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Old 01-25-2006, 06:40 PM   #103
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[QUOTE=kufman]Mr. Unlimited,
a single lipoly cell puts out 3.7 volts so 7.4 is two cells in series. the next step down in lipo would be way under 4 cells of NiMH.
QUOTE]
I know but also Lipo's can be redesigned. Let's say they develop 2,5V Lipo's. A pack would be 5V. Now JMRA accepts this rule who says IFMAR, EFRA, ROAR will follow? In Europe we've always sticked to 6cells while in the USA many yrs ago offroad was racing 7cells. IFMAR didn't allow 7cells for world champions, so let's wait.
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Old 01-25-2006, 07:16 PM   #104
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Earlier I said it will be interesting to see where this goes. But I just can't agree with slowing the cars down. I want to go faster. Are we really in need of slower cars?
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Old 01-25-2006, 07:19 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Sharpe
Earlier I said it will be interesting to see where this goes. But I just can't agree with slowing the cars down. I want to go faster. Are we really in need of slower cars?

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