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Old 01-20-2006, 03:06 AM   #1
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Default History Question - Why 27T ?? why 19T??

Just got thinking yeaterday (always dangerous) , but why is Stock 27 turn (not 30 or 26?) and why was it then decided to place superstock as a 19 turn single rather than anything else?

anyone know?
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Old 01-20-2006, 09:31 AM   #2
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Well, I am not that old on the stocks, but I was told that just what the mabuchi motors were at the time......and since they were not techincally made for RC.....they just happened to be 27 turn......and when RC specific motors started being made......they just carried the turn number over to the new motors and then the official rules....

19t motors I believe just grew out of popularity when some tracks started using budget motors that happened to be 19t.......and it took off from there...

Later EddieO
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Old 01-20-2006, 09:46 AM   #3
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Stock in Asia usually means 23T motor. In Asia there are usually 2 grp only, 23T stock and Modify, no 19T!
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Old 01-20-2006, 11:04 AM   #4
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About 27yrs ago we were using Mabuchi 540 (we even used 380 motors). Because they we 30turns and we wanted faster motors Mabuchi decided to bring out a faster which was the 540S motor but still 30turn and closes enbells! Brands like AYK from Japan decided to rewind the armatures to 27turn and with open endbells so we could change the brushes and best of all: we could clean the comm. We used in those days earsticks!!! and simple alcohol to celan the comm. The motors were approved by clubs and organizations. WE used 1200mah Sanyo cells (SC-type and later SCR types the famous red cells). Since the capicity increased over the years the 27turn motors are to slow for competitve racing using 3300-4200mah or you can overgear the the motor with the chance too fry the esc.
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Old 01-20-2006, 04:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exint2
Just got thinking yeaterday (always dangerous) , but why is Stock 27 turn (not 30 or 26?) and why was it then decided to place superstock as a 19 turn single rather than anything else?

anyone know?

Oh yeah...........like you're too young to remember eh?
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Old 01-20-2006, 04:40 PM   #6
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I believe Ernie is the one to thank for the 19t, as well as the rebuildable 27t.

Thanks Ernie P.!!
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Old 01-20-2006, 05:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestormers
Oh yeah...........like you're too young to remember eh?
Not too young but when I was doing stock off road in the mid 80's there was no turn limit, the motors just had to have plain bearings and a sealed fixed endbell. Demon produced a "Mr T" stock that was a 15 double!

Then we all went mod and then I stopped for a bit...... and then when I returned it had become 27T and 19T.......
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Old 01-20-2006, 05:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Well, I am not that old on the stocks, but I was told that just what the mabuchi motors were at the time......and since they were not techincally made for RC.....they just happened to be 27 turn......and when RC specific motors started being made......they just carried the turn number over to the new motors and then the official rules....

19t motors I believe just grew out of popularity when some tracks started using budget motors that happened to be 19t.......and it took off from there...

Later EddieO
if i remember, mabuchi was really popular with the slot car people ? i faintly remember the mabuchi corp also being the first to really create the first industrial motor winding machine to speed up processes for industrial motors back in like 1950's.

*shrug* im not that old...

but what i DO remember is seeing mabuchi motors come with THIS kit:

and boy.. it was fast ;-)
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Old 01-20-2006, 09:56 PM   #9
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When I started racing in the summer of 1980 the ROAR stock motor was an Igarashi closed endbell 35 turn motor. The Yokomo and Mabuchi open endbell motors started showing up around 1984 to 1985 and eventually became the new stock motor with 27 turns. I'd be interested to find out, if anybody knows, why the change came about.
I've found a picture of my first car with the Igarashi stock. This brings back some great memories.
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Old 01-20-2006, 10:16 PM   #10
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Nice Pic!, RCMits

A friend gave me one of those, but it is in really rough shape
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Old 01-20-2006, 10:32 PM   #11
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I can't say why we use 27 turn motors, I can say I was a huge supporter of the old NORRCA and the use of 24 degree stock motors in SPORTSMAN class and the use of 36 degree in Expert.

I can also say...from all I've heard over the past 20 years of racing...that the 19t motor was popular as a spec mod alternative and I think it was David Timmerman (East Coast Motors) who made it popular in the south east several years ago. I have also heard that was the motor of choice in the old RCRA series that swept the south east about 12-15 years ago.

As for rebuildable stocks, I know I lobbied for them for YEARS after being involved with a team who had several of our BEST Stock motors torn down in a single year...which drove the expense right through the roof.

The proposals were made to then NORRCA Owner JR Sitman and his Tech Inspector Rick Phelps. After NORRCA took on a NEW owner, these proposals were submitted again and with a lot of work by ARCOR's JB, (Then with NORRCA) we were able to get these things made and more important...APPROVED for USE.

When these proposals were made, we also tried to have a 36 degree rebuildable built too. It was said since only NORRCA ran the 36 degree motor it wasn't feasable. Not long after, the same people decided to take a look at the old 19t idea, and how to make it a Stepping Stone from STOCK. The original idea was to use a "Rebuildable Stock Can" with a "SPEC 19" arm. Staying with the Bushing style motor with both options for Stand Up and Lay Down brushes. TRINITY came out with a Chameleon motor about the same time that had about 80% of the "TECH" rules built in, and it was picked up as the 19t of Choice.... until ARCOR went toward the "Handwound SPEC 19t" that is now used for most of the 19t OVAL racing.

Thank you to TRINITY for building the rebuildable Motors, and for the other MFG's for following along... Rebuildable STOCK motors are so much nicer in the long run...and give you a chance to keep a motor going a lot longer.
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Old 01-20-2006, 11:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMits
if i remember, mabuchi was really popular with the slot car people ? i faintly remember the mabuchi corp also being the first to really create the first industrial motor winding machine to speed up processes for industrial motors back in like 1950's.

*shrug* im not that old...

but what i DO remember is seeing mabuchi motors come with THIS kit:

and boy.. it was fast ;-)

just wondering if you still use it
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Old 01-21-2006, 12:07 AM   #13
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when I first started in 86 I had one of those 35 turn motors in my 12th scale tamiya 956 porsche with 6 cell. then I bought a 23 turn parma enduro as it was open class. we didn't have a stock or mod class till like 90 or 91. now the trinity 350 and 427 motors were 23? and 18 turns and we had a few poeple try to get a 427 class going at my local track in 90. I just ran my 15 doubles and quads in just about anything from 4wd dirt oval the 4 cell 12th scale onroad. and then a bunch of people started running the 21 turn spec motors in about 93 94 I think. I think fantom came out with them for a while for oval racing. can't think of any other classes they have tried to run at my local tracks. as for stock the first ones I remember were the joel johnson 36 degree 27T. and then I had a 44 degree motor called the 44 magumn from quaterflash and then was fast but I think I remember smoking that arm and the next one I put in from another motor. oh well. that was about 91. then they told me I had to run a 24 degree stock motor at the track. need to find that can.....
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Old 01-21-2006, 01:14 AM   #14
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Nashracer

Remember the 1700SCE cels? It was a huge advantage over the 1200SCR cells. We were able to run motors up to 15turns and I remember in offroad we Europeans ran 6cells in offroad and the US-racers 7cells.
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Old 01-21-2006, 07:42 AM   #15
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1200sc still have 2
1200scr have 3 packs
1400scr tossed them and yes 7cell 4wd dirt oval with 13t and 14t for 3 minutes couldn't make anymore time!
1700sce ditto
2000 got 8 packs
2400 didn't even buy one pack
3000 probably 20
3300 probably 300 cells
3600 skipped
3700 ditto
3800 17 packs
4200
4300

haven't gotten any of the last 2 but it's a given that I will, running 12th mod. and I don't know what the desination letters are for the rest. I actually skipped the 2400 craze and went right to the 3000nmh and hv batteries from the 2000 cells. now that was a jump!
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