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Old 03-13-2018, 09:34 AM   -   Wikipost
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Mugen MTC1 Wiki:

MTC1 Manual on the Mugen Web Site.

Correction for the manual




The max/min tooth count of the spur and pinion combined.

64p = 127 to 164 total teeth


48p = 95 to 120 total teeth


People who have spare spur gears left over from other cars which they wish to use but can only utilize 2 of the 4 mounting holes, here's neat trick from MKAH to drill 2 more holes precisely in the spur gear:

1.Dismantle the Spur Holder and mount XRAY Spur with two screws.

2.If you have take a 3mm Top Setting Screw

3.Get the Top Screw in the first free thread to the Spur Holder from the other side until it touches the Spur a litle bit.
Make the same with the second free Thread.


4.Dismantle Top set Srew an the two screws witch holds the Spur on the Holder.
Now you see two marks absolutely central.


5. Take an 3mm Driller an Drill the holes at the marked places

6.Mount the Spur with the two old and two new holes on the Spur.


Spur Gears known to fit the gear holder with the correct hole pattern

1. Axon
2. Panaracer


Upper front arm hinge pin set screw tip (or any of the kit set screws):

When installing the set screw run the set screw in until you can see it come into the hinge pin gap. Back the screw out and make sure there is no flashing in the way and then the screw. Now slide the pin in and you should hit the pin and come to a dead stop. It will be a solid feel and not sloppy like it will not tighten which is caused by any loose plastic.

Hara's Setup


Robert Pietsch's Latest Carpet Setup

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Old 03-12-2018, 07:04 PM
  #1336  
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Originally Posted by noproblems209 View Post
Switched from the TOP cars? Almost ready to pull the trigger on one! how you liking them chris? good on the bumpy tracks?
Excellent on bumpy tracks using X-Ray or SMJ springs. Still have all 3 single belt Sabres, but .3 quicker with the MTC1's with last year's 21.5! Amazing cars on asphalt with kit setup. Building second car for carpet using Fenix aluminum chassis and top deck. No chance to run it yet. Asphalt 21.5 (last season's) USGT is .1 quicker than 17.5 Saber. Who am I talking to?
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by casrcr View Post
Excellent on bumpy tracks using X-Ray or SMJ springs. Still have all 3 single belt Sabres, but .3 quicker with the MTC1's with last year's 21.5! Amazing cars on asphalt with kit setup. Building second car for carpet using Fenix aluminum chassis and top deck. No chance to run it yet. Asphalt 21.5 (last season's) USGT is .1 quicker than 17.5 Saber. Who am I talking to?
Glad your liking the car Chris. Did you get my setup from Juan?
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott B View Post
Glad your liking the car Chris. Did you get my setup from Juan?
Sure did sir!! Thank you very much Mr. B. Already thanked Juan when he sent it. Car with your whole setup other than 5k to your 7k in the diff. Really good on medium bite asphalt. Like at Camarillo. Real handful on early AM sketchy surface. Really good when track warmed up. Keep trying to get up to 209, between me getting sick every-other weekend and my customer's last minute needs,(all racers and tractor pullers are alike about waiting to the last minute) haven't made one yet! Killing me! Will be seeing you soon tho Scot. Thanks again.
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Old 03-12-2018, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by casrcr View Post
Excellent on bumpy tracks using X-Ray or SMJ springs. Still have all 3 single belt Sabres, but .3 quicker with the MTC1's with last year's 21.5! Amazing cars on asphalt with kit setup. Building second car for carpet using Fenix aluminum chassis and top deck. No chance to run it yet. Asphalt 21.5 (last season's) USGT is .1 quicker than 17.5 Saber. Who am I talking to?
Its Josh B.
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Old 03-12-2018, 09:26 PM
  #1340  
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Originally Posted by noproblems209 View Post
Its Josh B.
Pull the trigger Josh, you're gonna love the amount of steering it has!!
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by SLOW 77 View Post
Sounds good Marcos!
Here you go , so far its very easy to drive lots of corner speed

i forgot to mark the bottom shock mount , i have them on the default setting


Attached Thumbnails Mugen MTC1-screenshot-539-.jpg  
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:33 AM
  #1342  
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I added Robert Pietsch's latest setup to the Wiki.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:31 PM
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The prototype softer front upper arm makes no sense to me - same with the o-ring spacer idea. All other manufactures are going stiffer and stiffer and stiffer with the C-hub to prevent caster geometry deviations. Awesomatix and Gizmo have very rigid upper arms (Awesomatix made a flexy caster option but it doesn't look this caught on). It would make sense to me to have precisely controlled reactive caster which could be done on the MTC1.
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Old 03-13-2018, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidNERODease View Post
The prototype softer front upper arm makes no sense to me - same with the o-ring spacer idea. All other manufactures are going stiffer and stiffer and stiffer with the C-hub to prevent caster geometry deviations. Awesomatix and Gizmo have very rigid upper arms (Awesomatix made a flexy caster option but it doesn't look this caught on). It would make sense to me to have precisely controlled reactive caster which could be done on the MTC1.
i went with just shims in the upper arm and left the caster at 4 degrees , i see no need for upper arms to be softer either.
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Old 03-18-2018, 03:44 PM
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After not short of putting 200laps of testing over the weekend, here is my latest setup for outdoors aspahlt. It was HOT (40C+) yesterday, but car still worked great.

Now, I know it is a very big departure from a lot of other setups out there, but bare with me. And I have also referenced back to the kit setup (back-backs) and feel this is the right direction to be going. I don't agree with the super low front roll centre/less flex route that seems to be being run elsewhere, so I am working on a more conventional philosphy.

Key points to note;
  • Prototype chasssis and top deck, rear shock tower - I had Bezerk make up a carbon chassis and top deck for with more regular shaping (ok, I copied Yokomo..), however since then I've taken a dremel to it to actually increase the flex a little in the rear section, as the original was too locked in. This works in hand with not running the rear most motor mount screw (Screw in further locks down the car). It also had the steering posts moved back 1mm to increase the range of ackerman options.
    The top deck is changed mainly around the front, where there is more of a V than a T connecting to the bulkheads.
    The rear shock tower is same thickness, but with a revised shape with a lot more material to stiffen it up, helped to make the rear a little more consistent.
  • Raised axles - 0.5mm between steering and castor blocks, and xray rear hubs. This is from the previous setup that I had shared previously, to help improve the roll-centre/camber gain relationship.
  • Long wheelbase - As standard, the Mugen is short.. compared to other cars, your looking around 2mm shorter. So I've moved the rear arms back, and front arms forward. On track, it's better balanced and carries better corner speed, and helped to calm the naturally aggressive rotation. Just note, on the front, you'll want to compensate for the ackerman (move forward a position) and the castor shims (otherwise you'll increase castor too).
  • Diff Fill - 1.5g of oil was much better than 1.3g. I had been struggling with getting heavier diffs to come in quick enough during a run.. however with the lighter oil, but more of it, this was much improved. Will be the go to for me now.
  • Diff bulkheads raised 1mm - Ok, so this was a more subtle change than I expected... but again, comparing to other cars on the market, the Mugen diffs are low... very low. Even in the high position they are around 1mm lower than others. Having seen the last brand to try low go back to high pretty rapidy (Yokomo), I followed their lead and raised the axle bulkheads by putting 1mm shims underneath. The diff height is now much closer to the recognised standard. On track, a better flow (less stopping mid corner), so more corner speed. And quicker by a 10th on fastest and average lap.
    Doing this though, just remember to lower the upper camber link shims 1mm to compensate as well.
  • Flex - Because of the front upper arm mounting, the front flex is shorter than the rear. If you look closely at the mounting holes for the top deck, the front is secured one hole further back in effect. So to even this up, mount the top deck only with the the 2 forward most screws. This provided a massive time gain (over 2/10ths!) which was very very surprising, but really helped to gain mid-corner bite.
  • Shock angle - To improve the angles of the shocks, having played with this previously on my Xrays, I have added shims behind the mounts on the towers. The front shock is quite angled in standard, which does sharpen the reaction up. Putting a 3mm (would be 2mm with shorter wheelbase) shim behind the upper mount makes the shock more vertical, and this in turn smoothens the front out. On the rear, it's actually pretty upright as standard, so just added 1mm to compensate for the longer wheelbase.
  • Bump Steer - 2mm shim under the outer steering joint. The standard position makes for easy to drive, but lacks mid-corner steering. I had been running 1mm, but 2mm seems to work even better. Again, about a 10th improvement.

That pretty much covers it. I would actually encourage people to really give this a try. Obviously the bottom deck, top deck and rear tower are unique items (and I have plans for another revision yet!), but the rest can bolt onto the standard MTC1 easy (just use all the motor mount screws). I may be biased, but for me it has really improved the balance of the car, and help unleash its potential.

[Also - I'm going to do a video blog soon to run through this lot, should be a bit easier to understand ]
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
SMA-18Mar18.pdf (615.7 KB, 173 views)
kentech, robk, carkillaii and 3 others like this.

Last edited by TryHard; 03-18-2018 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 03-19-2018, 01:15 AM
  #1346  
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Hi

Very thoughtful changes you have written here. Have you had experiences with this car having a snappy rear? This may have to do with the fact that the initial turn in and rotation of this car is very aggresive and may well be the most aggressive of any touring car out there today..compensation have been made with the roll centre shims that have made it a lot better. Just wondering which of the mods you have specified impacts the aggresiveness of this the most? Trying to bring it down heaps more if i can. One point is that on a hot weather our track surface temp hits 60 deg C then again i feel this is irregardless of ambient temps.

Do you find the rear diff gears being stripped from time to time? Been seeing that on many cars here. Wondering if this is a design issue mugen has taken note of.

Thks.

Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
After not short of putting 200laps of testing over the weekend, here is my latest setup for outdoors aspahlt. It was HOT (40C+) yesterday, but car still worked great.

Now, I know it is a very big departure from a lot of other setups out there, but bare with me. And I have also referenced back to the kit setup (back-backs) and feel this is the right direction to be going. I don't agree with the super low front roll centre/less flex route that seems to be being run elsewhere, so I am working on a more conventional philosphy.

Key points to note;
  • Prototype chasssis and top deck, rear shock tower - I had Bezerk make up a carbon chassis and top deck for with more regular shaping (ok, I copied Yokomo..), however since then I've taken a dremel to it to actually increase the flex a little in the rear section, as the original was too locked in. This works in hand with not running the rear most motor mount screw (Screw in further locks down the car). It also had the steering posts moved back 1mm to increase the range of ackerman options.
    The top deck is changed mainly around the front, where there is more of a V than a T connecting to the bulkheads.
    The rear shock tower is same thickness, but with a revised shape with a lot more material to stiffen it up, helped to make the rear a little more consistent.
  • Raised axles - 0.5mm between steering and castor blocks, and xray rear hubs. This is from the previous setup that I had shared previously, to help improve the roll-centre/camber gain relationship.
  • Long wheelbase - As standard, the Mugen is short.. compared to other cars, your looking around 2mm shorter. So I've moved the rear arms back, and front arms forward. On track, it's better balanced and carries better corner speed, and helped to calm the naturally aggressive rotation. Just note, on the front, you'll want to compensate for the ackerman (move forward a position) and the castor shims (otherwise you'll increase castor too).
  • Diff Fill - 1.5g of oil was much better than 1.3g. I had been struggling with getting heavier diffs to come in quick enough during a run.. however with the lighter oil, but more of it, this was much improved. Will be the go to for me now.
  • Diff bulkheads raised 1mm - Ok, so this was a more subtle change than I expected... but again, comparing to other cars on the market, the Mugen diffs are low... very low. Even in the high position they are around 1mm lower than others. Having seen the last brand to try low go back to high pretty rapidy (Yokomo), I followed their lead and raised the axle bulkheads by putting 1mm shims underneath. The diff height is now much closer to the recognised standard. On track, a better flow (less stopping mid corner), so more corner speed. And quicker by a 10th on fastest and average lap.
    Doing this though, just remember to lower the upper camber link shims 1mm to compensate as well.
  • Flex - Because of the front upper arm mounting, the front flex is shorter than the rear. If you look closely at the mounting holes for the top deck, the front is secured one hole further back in effect. So to even this up, mount the top deck only with the the 2 forward most screws. This provided a massive time gain (over 2/10ths!) which was very very surprising, but really helped to gain mid-corner bite.
  • Shock angle - To improve the angles of the shocks, having played with this previously on my Xrays, I have added shims behind the mounts on the towers. The front shock is quite angled in standard, which does sharpen the reaction up. Putting a 3mm (would be 2mm with shorter wheelbase) shim behind the upper mount makes the shock more vertical, and this in turn smoothens the front out. On the rear, it's actually pretty upright as standard, so just added 1mm to compensate for the longer wheelbase.
  • Bump Steer - 2mm shim under the outer steering joint. The standard position makes for easy to drive, but lacks mid-corner steering. I had been running 1mm, but 2mm seems to work even better. Again, about a 10th improvement.

That pretty much covers it. I would actually encourage people to really give this a try. Obviously the bottom deck, top deck and rear tower are unique items (and I have plans for another revision yet!), but the rest can bolt onto the standard MTC1 easy (just use all the motor mount screws). I may be biased, but for me it has really improved the balance of the car, and help unleash its potential.

[Also - I'm going to do a video blog soon to run through this lot, should be a bit easier to understand ]
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Old 03-19-2018, 07:13 AM
  #1347  
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@TryHard,that helps me tremendously by validating the points I've been making.
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Old 03-19-2018, 09:07 AM
  #1348  
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I was holding out for the cutout free aluminum chassis before making radical changes to the cars setup but it never happened
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Old 03-19-2018, 10:59 AM
  #1349  
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Originally Posted by BD1541 View Post
Hi

Very thoughtful changes you have written here. Have you had experiences with this car having a snappy rear? This may have to do with the fact that the initial turn in and rotation of this car is very aggresive and may well be the most aggressive of any touring car out there today..compensation have been made with the roll centre shims that have made it a lot better. Just wondering which of the mods you have specified impacts the aggresiveness of this the most? Trying to bring it down heaps more if i can. One point is that on a hot weather our track surface temp hits 60 deg C then again i feel this is irregardless of ambient temps.

Do you find the rear diff gears being stripped from time to time? Been seeing that on many cars here. Wondering if this is a design issue mugen has taken note of.

Thks.
I have run more than 100 packs through my car and no issues with the diff gears. I have run 13.5 and 17.5 with no problems.
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Old 03-19-2018, 11:12 AM
  #1350  
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Originally Posted by lbckevin View Post
I have run more than 100 packs through my car and no issues with the diff gears. I have run 13.5 and 17.5 with no problems.
Same here no issues
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