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Mugen MTC1

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Mugen MTC1 Wiki:

MTC1 Manual on the Mugen Web Site.

Correction for the manual




The max/min tooth count of the spur and pinion combined.

64p = 127 to 164 total teeth


48p = 95 to 120 total teeth


People who have spare spur gears left over from other cars which they wish to use but can only utilize 2 of the 4 mounting holes, here's neat trick from MKAH to drill 2 more holes precisely in the spur gear:

1.Dismantle the Spur Holder and mount XRAY Spur with two screws.

2.If you have take a 3mm Top Setting Screw

3.Get the Top Screw in the first free thread to the Spur Holder from the other side until it touches the Spur a litle bit.
Make the same with the second free Thread.


4.Dismantle Top set Srew an the two screws witch holds the Spur on the Holder.
Now you see two marks absolutely central.


5. Take an 3mm Driller an Drill the holes at the marked places

6.Mount the Spur with the two old and two new holes on the Spur.


Spur Gears known to fit the gear holder with the correct hole pattern

1. Axon
2. Panaracer


Upper front arm hinge pin set screw tip (or any of the kit set screws):

When installing the set screw run the set screw in until you can see it come into the hinge pin gap. Back the screw out and make sure there is no flashing in the way and then the screw. Now slide the pin in and you should hit the pin and come to a dead stop. It will be a solid feel and not sloppy like it will not tighten which is caused by any loose plastic.

Hara's Setup


Robert Pietsch's Latest Carpet Setup

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Old 05-29-2017, 06:00 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Smashrc View Post
One big issue with indexing, is the car can be easily tweaked. Even with high precision of machining, it is very very difficult with indexing everything without tweaking. Also, the car can be tweaked more seriously with indexing if you tighten the left right screw unevenly. So, I think indexing is not a good thing for 1/10 touring EP. The more indexing means the more tweak, the more stiffer chassis. (i don't have that experience on GP, so only apply my statement to EP touring.)
I think you're right.

But I think it can be easily avoided.

The 1/8 I am running is not GP, it is electric (Capricorn E801). There's no tweak in it and it's all indexed and it can take a serious smash without trouble. In fact, I think this is the reason the whole car is indexed - to survive major crashes with no problem.

You can of course engineer the car to fail at controlled points such that you avoid tweaking the chassis and this is the way I would go. Make something cheap give (say a suspension arm) and save the rest. In real terms, you can design the car such that the suspension arms break before anything else, no matter what. That way you would of course only ever sell suspension arms as spares, and I think this is where major manufacturers will turn around and run the other way.
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Old 05-29-2017, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by niznai View Post
I think you're right.

But I think it can be easily avoided.

The 1/8 I am running is not GP, it is electric (Capricorn E801). There's no tweak in it and it's all indexed and it can take a serious smash without trouble. In fact, I think this is the reason the whole car is indexed - to survive major crashes with no problem.

You can of course engineer the car to fail at controlled points such that you avoid tweaking the chassis and this is the way I would go. Make something cheap give (say a suspension arm) and save the rest. In real terms, you can design the car such that the suspension arms break before anything else, no matter what. That way you would of course only ever sell suspension arms as spares, and I think this is where major manufacturers will turn around and run the other way.

I got what you mean. But what I experienced is, right after you built the car. The car is already tweaked. Can be like 1mm different L and R. Then I need to lose all the screws then tighten it carefully and still have some degree of tweak. Car with no indexing has no problem at all. Why add indexing to add more chance of tweaking.
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Old 05-29-2017, 07:58 AM
  #93  
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Any more pics of this thing yet?
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Old 05-29-2017, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Antimullet View Post
Any more pics of this thing yet?
Still yet to see any chassis shots of this Would of been nice to see Mugen take it to Reedy Race.
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Old 05-29-2017, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Smashrc View Post
I got what you mean. But what I experienced is, right after you built the car. The car is already tweaked. Can be like 1mm different L and R. Then I need to lose all the screws then tighten it carefully and still have some degree of tweak. Car with no indexing has no problem at all. Why add indexing to add more chance of tweaking.
I've been noticing a lot lately on my MTX-6R that unless something is actually bent, a lot of the tweak comes from the sway bars. When I get all of the tweak out of them, put everything back together and then put it on the tweak station, it is dead on.

I learned this way by watching someones video on youtube, I think it was Salven. With the shocks off, lift one arm until the opposite arm starts to come up. Check the arm that you are lifting and measure it like you would droop. Say the measurement is 3mm. Then check the other side the same way. You want to adjust the sway bar until both measurements are the same.

Hope this helps.
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Old 05-29-2017, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GrandeGixxer View Post
Was Tim Long running the Mugen at the Reedy race?
Nope, looks like he was running a Yokomo on his fb post.
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Old 05-29-2017, 05:35 PM
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Would have loved to see how well it would have handled against the competition, to bad they did not have one at the Reedy race. Again hoping for more in depth details and close ups of this car, I'm sure that it will be very high quality!

Patrick
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Old 05-29-2017, 06:28 PM
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XCELL: When you hear Mugen, you think it must be good, it must be high quality. Not always the case, I remember when the MTX-5 released. MTX-5 has an issue of keep strapping gears because too much flex of the chassis. Then like 3 months later, Mugen released MTX-5 version 2. The version 2 is what fixed this strapping gear issue. That's why during that time, I heard people is selling MTX-5 because you need to keep changing gears.
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Old 05-30-2017, 03:12 PM
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This car already has me reconsidering my plans for a T4 2018. I have it ahead of the A800 and 4X in my mind as the top contender to the Xray, as much as I'd love to build those super cool cars, because... like wife and kids and work and shtuff require time.
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Smashrc View Post
XCELL: When you hear Mugen, you think it must be good, it must be high quality. Not always the case, I remember when the MTX-5 released. MTX-5 has an issue of keep strapping gears because too much flex of the chassis. Then like 3 months later, Mugen released MTX-5 version 2. The version 2 is what fixed this strapping gear issue. That's why during that time, I heard people is selling MTX-5 because you need to keep changing gears.
On that topic, nobody is bullet proof. Xray, Tamiya, Corally, everybody and their dog have put out a , errr- dog (for lack of a better word) at one point or another.

What you can hope (if you bought the first release) is that they quickly come out with an update to help iron out whatever is wrong, hopefully with only a few parts that need replacing rather than an entirely new kit. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

Sometimes they want to make you buy an entire new kit because the parts you need are not available separately. I think this is the shittiest move from a manufacturer. In my opinion this is the manufacturer tacitly admitting they should just reimburse you for the dog you already bought (or replace your car at no cost to you). Good luck with that.

I did buy cars that turned out not to be the best the manufacturer could come up with simply because I was in the market at the time and didn't mind taking a chance. If the car doesn't perform, cut your losses, sell and move on. There's plenty to choose from.

Or wait a bit until reports from customers start coming out and make a decision then.

Either way, I am not going to sleep outside the shop the night before just to get my hands on a car. If it is really good, there will be more production after the initial pre-orders of the fanboys are satisfied.

My personal gut feeling (aka opinion based on nothing) is that the beefy front end of the prototype as it is right now comes with a weight penalty. How important that is will probably be decided after the car lays some laps in the hands of many customers all over the world. Past experience shows that manufacturers move away from that design for some reason. I guess we'll see if it makes it into production and then if it lasts.

As I mentioned above, I have more trouble with the rear end of the car being fragile rather than the front. And I don't think you would want the front arms and carriers/c-hubs to be that strong, because the impact of a hit will then be transmitted to the bulkhead or the chassis, or whatever they are attached to. Something has to give and I'd rather change a suspension arm than a chassis or a bulkhead or who knows what else. Your mileage might vary.

I think the most important advantage of this front suspension design is that it can accomodate some really beefy CVD joints (a current problem for all manufacturers) but we don't have enough info right now to know if Mugen has done that.

Last edited by niznai; 05-30-2017 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:57 AM
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GrandeGixxer: Thank you for your information on how to setup sway bar properly. What I mean the chassis tweak is actually the chassis tweaked. You put the car on setting board/setup blocks with no tire, removed the shocks and sway bars. You can see the bottom of chassis is not flat. Can be 1 mm different L and R.
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by niznai View Post
On that topic, nobody is bullet proof. Xray, Tamiya, Corally, everybody and their dog have put out a , errr- dog (for lack of a better word) at one point or another.

What you can hope (if you bought the first release) is that they quickly come out with an update to help iron out whatever is wrong, hopefully with only a few parts that need replacing rather than an entirely new kit. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

Sometimes they want to make you buy an entire new kit because the parts you need are not available separately. I think this is the shittiest move from a manufacturer. In my opinion this is the manufacturer tacitly admitting they should just reimburse you for the dog you already bought (or replace your car at no cost to you). Good luck with that.

I did buy cars that turned out not to be the best the manufacturer could come up with simply because I was in the market at the time and didn't mind taking a chance. If the car doesn't perform, cut your losses, sell and move on. There's plenty to choose from.

Or wait a bit until reports from customers start coming out and make a decision then.

Either way, I am not going to sleep outside the shop the night before just to get my hands on a car. If it is really good, there will be more production after the initial pre-orders of the fanboys are satisfied.

My personal gut feeling (aka opinion based on nothing) is that the beefy front end of the prototype as it is right now comes with a weight penalty. How important that is will probably be decided after the car lays some laps in the hands of many customers all over the world. Past experience shows that manufacturers move away from that design for some reason. I guess we'll see if it makes it into production and then if it lasts.

As I mentioned above, I have more trouble with the rear end of the car being fragile rather than the front. And I don't think you would want the front arms and carriers/c-hubs to be that strong, because the impact of a hit will then be transmitted to the bulkhead or the chassis, or whatever they are attached to. Something has to give and I'd rather change a suspension arm than a chassis or a bulkhead or who knows what else. Your mileage might vary.

I think the most important advantage of this front suspension design is that it can accomodate some really beefy CVD joints (a current problem for all manufacturers) but we don't have enough info right now to know if Mugen has done that.
About the front end making the car heavier that's actually a benefit in my mind because racers are actually making their cars heavier and heavier rather than making them lighter and about the rear end , I think they should have done what awsomatix , serpent and gizmo has done with their cars and make the rear and the front the same , first it's more cost effective, it's simpler to setup , better balance in relation front and rear and many more. But let's see how it developes
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Smashrc View Post
GrandeGixxer: Thank you for your information on how to setup sway bar properly. What I mean the chassis tweak is actually the chassis tweaked. You put the car on setting board/setup blocks with no tire, removed the shocks and sway bars. You can see the bottom of chassis is not flat. Can be 1 mm different L and R.
Absolutely, I have a piece of glass that I put my chassis on when I do tear downs to verify it's not tweaked in this way. I run nitro though, I know it's a lot different building and maintaining them than it is an electric sedan. The precision and attention to detail weighs the same though in my opinion.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:30 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by Ricardo_d99 View Post
About the front end making the car heavier that's actually a benefit in my mind because racers are actually making their cars heavier and heavier rather than making them lighter and about the rear end , I think they should have done what awsomatix , serpent and gizmo has done with their cars and make the rear and the front the same , first it's more cost effective, it's simpler to setup , better balance in relation front and rear and many more. But let's see how it developes
I agree on both points.

The Kawada Sigma was absolutely identical front to back in everything before all those cars you mention (2004-ish). That meant you only had to have one suspension arm spare, the bulkheads were the same, suspension mounts likewise (shock towers different).

It also had the benefit that being a single belt you could hook the motor and its associated hardware (all mounted to the motor bulkhead) at any point along the chassis (the car came with three pre-drilled sets of holes so you could have the motor forward, mid and rear) so you could choose your weight balance.

I think our cars a bit rear-biased these days because the motor hangs out the back and the electronics are up front, whilst the battery is somewhere in the middle (lengthwise). Sure, you can usually balance it out, but then you have differences left to right depending on where you place weights (how far from the centre line). This results in different inertia moments when the car rolls and this will affect how your car turns left to right. I am not sure I can measure these differences (or if they really make a difference to your car's handling) but I am sure they do exist.

This is why I am in the process of making a single belt car with central motor and saddle pack battery in an effort to distribute the weight symmetrically. More an experiment to see if it makes any difference than anything. We'll see.
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:46 AM
  #105  
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OMG, show us the rest of the car Mugen
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