Like Tree758Likes

Mugen MTC1

    Hide Wikipost
Old 03-13-2018, 09:34 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: Mugen MTC1
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: liljohn1064
Mugen MTC1 Wiki:

MTC1 Manual on the Mugen Web Site.

Correction for the manual




The max/min tooth count of the spur and pinion combined.

64p = 127 to 164 total teeth


48p = 95 to 120 total teeth


People who have spare spur gears left over from other cars which they wish to use but can only utilize 2 of the 4 mounting holes, here's neat trick from MKAH to drill 2 more holes precisely in the spur gear:

1.Dismantle the Spur Holder and mount XRAY Spur with two screws.

2.If you have take a 3mm Top Setting Screw

3.Get the Top Screw in the first free thread to the Spur Holder from the other side until it touches the Spur a litle bit.
Make the same with the second free Thread.


4.Dismantle Top set Srew an the two screws witch holds the Spur on the Holder.
Now you see two marks absolutely central.


5. Take an 3mm Driller an Drill the holes at the marked places

6.Mount the Spur with the two old and two new holes on the Spur.


Spur Gears known to fit the gear holder with the correct hole pattern

1. Axon
2. Panaracer


Upper front arm hinge pin set screw tip (or any of the kit set screws):

When installing the set screw run the set screw in until you can see it come into the hinge pin gap. Back the screw out and make sure there is no flashing in the way and then the screw. Now slide the pin in and you should hit the pin and come to a dead stop. It will be a solid feel and not sloppy like it will not tighten which is caused by any loose plastic.

Hara's Setup


Robert Pietsch's Latest Carpet Setup

Print Wikipost

Old 07-27-2017, 06:36 AM
  #286  
Bar
Tech Addict
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 579
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

It will be interesting to see if they are using their standard top deck or the more traditional one piece optional one
Bar is offline  
Old 07-27-2017, 08:59 AM
  #287  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (4)
 
thisguy2849's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Orlando, Fl
Posts: 844
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

My guess would be the standard one. Think the one piece is gonna be more for spec racing
thisguy2849 is offline  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:12 AM
  #288  
Tech Master
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,410
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

I still struggle with the torsional flexing the new cars are trying to achieve. I'd rather control the car's stiffness by changing out springs then to rely on the chassis flexing.
GrandeGixxer likes this.
glennhl is offline  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:15 AM
  #289  
Tech Master
iTrader: (16)
 
snuvet75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,590
Trader Rating: 16 (94%+)
Default

Originally Posted by glennhl View Post
I still struggle with the torsional flexing the new cars are trying to achieve. I'd rather control the car's stiffness by changing out springs then to rely on the chassis flexing.
Yeah me too. I think it's pretty hard to manage the flex of chassis consistently. They claim what does what on the chassis but I would rather make it stiff that way I can eliminate unexpected torsional flex from making front and back differ from each other.
GrandeGixxer likes this.
snuvet75 is offline  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:30 AM
  #290  
Tech Adept
 
stormridersp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 125
Default

I used to think just like that as well, but the thing is that 1/10 is just still too small a scale in order to achieve a reasonable amount of precision required by no-flex. This obviously affects the suspension geometry for the worse. Even if one could put a 100% precise suspension geometry and no flex into these small cars, they'd still suffer the bad effects from cheap simple 1/10 dampers. Put also into the equation the amount of downforce vs car weight vs 1/10 scale and one can easily notice that "controlable" chassis flex becomes an irresistible shortcut option. This is obviously widely open to discussion, as everything is in motorsports.
stormridersp is offline  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:36 AM
  #291  
Tech Master
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,410
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

Yea, it's really tough to compare a full scale car to a 1/10 scale one. I saw a slow motion video of a 1/10 touring car going through the sweeper at the Tamiya track and the front tires were almost at full lock. The slip angle was way more than anything you would see on a full scale car.

However, I think adding torsional flex is just a crutch. Some fast driver tried adding torsional flex to his car by removing screws on the top deck and he went faster. Why? Probably because he didn't have the right springs on the front and rear. Give me a super stiff car and let me put softer springs on each corner to get the same effect. I wish someone would try this and see if it works. Just drives me crazy that on a full scale car they spend big bucks to make the chassis as stiff as possible without adding too much weight. But in our 1/10 scale cars they make the cars more limber.
glennhl is offline  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:48 AM
  #292  
Tech Master
iTrader: (16)
 
snuvet75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,590
Trader Rating: 16 (94%+)
Default

Originally Posted by glennhl View Post
Yea, it's really tough to compare a full scale car to a 1/10 scale one. I saw a slow motion video of a 1/10 touring car going through the sweeper at the Tamiya track and the front tires were almost at full lock. The slip angle was way more than anything you would see on a full scale car.

However, I think adding torsional flex is just a crutch. Some fast driver tried adding torsional flex to his car by removing screws on the top deck and he went faster. Why? Probably because he didn't have the right springs on the front and rear. Give me a super stiff car and let me put softer springs on each corner to get the same effect. I wish someone would try this and see if it works. Just drives me crazy that on a full scale car they spend big bucks to make the chassis as stiff as possible without adding too much weight. But in our 1/10 scale cars they make the cars more limber.
I have still yet to find out if what you said truly works although that is exactly what I've been thinking. The issues brought to me on my Project X from other drivers got me thinking like that but I haven't even run the car yet lol.
glennhl likes this.
snuvet75 is offline  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:50 AM
  #293  
Tech Adept
 
stormridersp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 125
Default

Originally Posted by glennhl View Post
Give me a super stiff car and let me put softer springs on each corner to get the same effect. I wish someone would try this and see if it works. Just drives me crazy that on a full scale car they spend big bucks to make the chassis as stiff as possible without adding too much weight. But in our 1/10 scale cars they make the cars more limber.
You probably would, but with softer springs, how much downforce can you car handle? You know that when downforce became something to look after in F-1, teams were using so much spring rates that any movement at all in the suspension was caused by flexing in the suspension arms.

To setup a car is to put in the same pot all the different ingredients, to cook together, even if we have, for obvious reasons, to threat each ingredient individually.
stormridersp is offline  
Old 07-27-2017, 11:37 AM
  #294  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (13)
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,161
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by glennhl View Post
Yea, it's really tough to compare a full scale car to a 1/10 scale one. I saw a slow motion video of a 1/10 touring car going through the sweeper at the Tamiya track and the front tires were almost at full lock. The slip angle was way more than anything you would see on a full scale car.

However, I think adding torsional flex is just a crutch. Some fast driver tried adding torsional flex to his car by removing screws on the top deck and he went faster. Why? Probably because he didn't have the right springs on the front and rear. Give me a super stiff car and let me put softer springs on each corner to get the same effect. I wish someone would try this and see if it works. Just drives me crazy that on a full scale car they spend big bucks to make the chassis as stiff as possible without adding too much weight. But in our 1/10 scale cars they make the cars more limber.
This is not necessarily true. A lot of what happens is the forces don't scale up (or down) from full size machines. You have to remember that surface area goes up Square, while volume goes up Cubed. This is the reason why our car's design philosophy is different than on full sized cars. In other words, our 3lb cars are not 30 lbs in real life. (more like 3000 lbs)

Additionally flex is a tuning aid that depending on where it is focused on can make a car do different things. Due to the volume increase in full size cars being cubed, if we really tried to do these things with them, parts would be likely to break or flex to the point where you would damage the frame from the forces at play.

A lot of full size racers preach that flex is a bad thing when they start racing RC Cars. They soon find out that for us, it is a tuning adjustment and for a certain particular type of conditions you are better off with a more flexible car vs a more rigid one (and vice versa). As a car designer I will tell you, there are certain things you can only achieve with flex tuning. For example, no matter what spring/oil swaybar combo you run, you cannot change the way a car behaves on power in the same way that having different motor mount screw points changes a car.

I will say this. After tires, shock package is probably the second most important thing. I love shock and spring tuning. If people could see how many springs I have, along with pistons, they'd think I am insane.

However, in the hierarchy of things I deem important, closely followed in third place is flex characteristics. Material type of the chassis, shape, flex points, arm flex and material type, shock tower thickness, top deck type and shape all play into the flex characteristic of the car and often can make a much bigger difference than tire alignment, droop settings, link length and other adjustments many of us often fiddle with tremendously.

Lastly, the whole bandage thing... This is not directed at anyone in particular, but I simply don't believe in the expression. If it makes you go faster, it's repeatable with consistency and provides a benefit, by definition,it cannot be a band aid. Now, if it's mod-podged together and is not repeatable, it's a different story. However, flex tuning is not a band aid. It is a super valuable adjustment that can help you unlock a huge amount of speed across all conditions if you just have a mild semblance of understanding of it.
CristianTabush is offline  
Old 07-27-2017, 12:15 PM
  #295  
Tech Champion
 
Roelof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,128
Default

Pietsch is currently at the ETS and has a 3rd practise time regarding his FB page.
Roelof is offline  
Old 07-27-2017, 12:41 PM
  #296  
Tech Adept
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 110
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Has anyone run this on carpet yet? What was your setup?
CaptSlow is offline  
Old 07-27-2017, 12:43 PM
  #297  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (4)
 
thisguy2849's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Orlando, Fl
Posts: 844
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by CaptSlow View Post
Has anyone run this on carpet yet? What was your setup?
Car hasn't been released yet
Marcos.J and Drift_Buggy like this.
thisguy2849 is offline  
Old 07-27-2017, 12:50 PM
  #298  
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chatham Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,447
Default

I'm just gonna keep smiling.
DavidNERODease is offline  
Old 07-27-2017, 01:35 PM
  #299  
Tech Master
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,410
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
This is not necessarily true. A lot of what happens is the forces don't scale up (or down) from full size machines. You have to remember that surface area goes up Square, while volume goes up Cubed. This is the reason why our car's design philosophy is different than on full sized cars. In other words, our 3lb cars are not 30 lbs in real life. (more like 3000 lbs)

Additionally flex is a tuning aid that depending on where it is focused on can make a car do different things. Due to the volume increase in full size cars being cubed, if we really tried to do these things with them, parts would be likely to break or flex to the point where you would damage the frame from the forces at play.

A lot of full size racers preach that flex is a bad thing when they start racing RC Cars. They soon find out that for us, it is a tuning adjustment and for a certain particular type of conditions you are better off with a more flexible car vs a more rigid one (and vice versa). As a car designer I will tell you, there are certain things you can only achieve with flex tuning. For example, no matter what spring/oil swaybar combo you run, you cannot change the way a car behaves on power in the same way that having different motor mount screw points changes a car.

I will say this. After tires, shock package is probably the second most important thing. I love shock and spring tuning. If people could see how many springs I have, along with pistons, they'd think I am insane.

However, in the hierarchy of things I deem important, closely followed in third place is flex characteristics. Material type of the chassis, shape, flex points, arm flex and material type, shock tower thickness, top deck type and shape all play into the flex characteristic of the car and often can make a much bigger difference than tire alignment, droop settings, link length and other adjustments many of us often fiddle with tremendously.

Lastly, the whole bandage thing... This is not directed at anyone in particular, but I simply don't believe in the expression. If it makes you go faster, it's repeatable with consistency and provides a benefit, by definition,it cannot be a band aid. Now, if it's mod-podged together and is not repeatable, it's a different story. However, flex tuning is not a band aid. It is a super valuable adjustment that can help you unlock a huge amount of speed across all conditions if you just have a mild semblance of understanding of it.
Thanks for the info. I am a retired Professional Engineer that worked Aerospace for 40 years but never worked on cars other than my personal cars. I understand the problems with scaling, we had the same issues trying to scale items at work. You can scale 2 to 1 without a lot of issues, but 10 to 1 would be a disaster. Thank you for trying to explain the benefits of torsional flexing. However, I would love to have someone try some back to back testing of allowing a car to flex versus a stiffer one with softer springs. And I also agree with your priority rating of important things in tuning. Tires are number 1 by far followed by the shock package. I dare to say this holds true for full size race cars. One the guys I race with is also an engineer and is an Associated team driver, we've talked of doing some back to back testing.

Thanks,
Glenn
Germania and 30Tooth like this.
glennhl is offline  
Old 07-27-2017, 02:02 PM
  #300  
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chatham Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,447
Default

If stiffer was better we'd be racing it. All the major manufactures have been there done that and all of them use flex tuning now. What has changed that would make super stiff the way to go now? Flex evolved due to performance gains not performance losses. I don't see this ship this reversing course... although I'd still love to see that back to back testing
DavidNERODease is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.