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Old 01-23-2006, 09:31 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by jeffb
I am just wondering, if a person thinks that the winner of a stock event should move up and not race in that class anymore, does that mean if someone wins a world championship mod event that he has to quit R/C racing to give the other mod racers a chance????
Again, it sounds to me like you're deliberately twisting the discussion to make it sound like someone somewhere wants someone to "quit R/C racing"...that's what's known as a "red herring" or "straw man" argument. If you just misunderstood, I'm sorry and I'll try and clear it up for you.

Nobody has said at any time anyone should "quit R/C racing" at any time or for any reason.

The question at hand is whether by one means or another, there should be some progression from stock to faster classes once elite drivers demonstrate that they can dominate at national events in the slower classes.

I'm not expressing an opinion here, just stating the question at hand.
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Old 01-23-2006, 10:07 PM   #92
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Telling someone that they are not allowed to run a certain class because they are too good at it does not make sense. The natural progression is what most of has already been through, back yard bashing with your very first car, racing at your local track, becoming good enough to be sponsored, racing at national events, then World championship level events.

The suggestion of it being a moral or ethical problem makes me ask "Where does it stop?" The title of this thread says "be made to move" . If you make someone move from 19 turn at a national event because they are too good, then the natural progression to that answer would be what I said, where do you go if you can dominate mod? Make the driver quit?
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Old 01-23-2006, 10:24 PM   #93
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Oh, if you are PhD, then you can't go any higher, of course. But If you are first in your kindergarden class, you want to stay at kindergarden forever? I would rather get a lower grade in university(d main in mod) than be first in kindergarden(stock).
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Old 01-23-2006, 10:24 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by jeffb
The natural progression is what most of has already been through, back yard bashing with your very first car, racing at your local track, becoming good enough to be sponsored, racing at national events, then World championship level events.
And there is no stock class at the world level. Thats one of the points behind this. Stock TC and Mod TC are both still TC racing, not significantly seperate disciplines.

I was just looking through the Snowbirds list and I have to call bull$#!t on a few of the names in 19 turn SPORTSMAN. I see a couple beeshes trying to cherrypick.
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Old 01-23-2006, 11:29 PM   #95
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Actually look at the top 5 stock drivers at most of these events mentioned. Where do they work a full time job at, I would bet almost every oneof them work for a manufacturer and are given the oppertunity to run at a track every day. Do you see any of the unsponsored drivers with this kind of oppertunity, highly doubtful.
I do indeed work for a manufacturer, i wind, bake, balence, build, and ship all of the modifieds for Team Br00d. i have a track to practice on 50ft from the shop every day of the week, but i dont. to busy testing new winds and and tricks to help keep guys like dumas and jared scott up to speed.

in my case, the unsponsored majority are getting more track time then me.

but the bottom line is, you represent your sponsors product to the best of your ability, and in the class that they want you to.
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Old 01-23-2006, 11:58 PM   #96
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Moving to a class based system for each motor type (ie. Amateur Stock, Amateur Mod, Expert Stock, Expert Mod) may increase the overall entries to events as more people would feel as if they had a chance to be competitive.
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Old 01-24-2006, 12:08 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_robinson
I do indeed work for a manufacturer, i wind, bake, balence, build, and ship all of the modifieds for Team Br00d. i have a track to practice on 50ft from the shop every day of the week, but i dont. to busy testing new winds and and tricks to help keep guys like dumas and jared scott up to speed.

in my case, the unsponsored majority are getting more track time then me.

but the bottom line is, you represent your sponsors product to the best of your ability, and in the class that they want you to.
its true....i work with peter.....12 hours a day at the br00d shop.....track 50 feet away and i never run either.....we plan on running but it never really happens.....
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Old 01-24-2006, 12:38 AM   #98
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I can't see how anyone can justify forcing a driver to go to a DIFFERENT class just because they demonstrate outstanding skills in one class. Faster or slower, it's racing. In some cases, it is more difficult to race a stock class than a mod class...the car handles differently, you have to drive differently, you can't compensate for horsepower or the lack there of, etc. I'm under the impression someone is just upset at someone else, as this question makes no sense to me.

However, it is unfair for an obvious Expert driver to run in a sportsman class. We all know who these people are and all local (to each racer) tracks have them too. Some of them say...."well, it's a new car, so..." Yeah, so? Expert drivers are expert drivers, period.
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Old 01-24-2006, 01:30 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by caveman
Oh, if you are PhD, then you can't go any higher, of course. But If you are first in your kindergarden class, you want to stay at kindergarden forever? I would rather get a lower grade in university(d main in mod) than be first in kindergarden(stock).
You have the right to race in mod even though you would place in the "D". The same right for everyone elso to run in the Stock class and win the "A" .

If you place last in mod should you be demoted to stock? I think a win in the stock class at the national level is an awesome thing NOT easy to defend.

This whole thing has been hashed out multiple times on this forum alone and just sounds like sour grapes to me. Form your own sanctioning body and create a different class for everyone including lefties and racers who have their own mechanic, because if those people are beating me they must have an unfair advantage.

My post sounds as silly to you as yours does to me.

My opinion is harda$$ because I believe in the spirit competition, (just one example) when factory drivers showed up to the Kyosho gas challenge at Freedom hill in Michigan, I was honored to be racing in the same "class" as them. I made it to the "D" and I think it would be silly to say the top ten factory drivers should run something else so that I could make it to the "C".

There are many other classes and scales of R/C racing for beginners and hobbyists alike, you may not like losing in stock at Cleveland but kicking the top 5 out of the class won't help you.

Everyone should have the right to race in any class they wish.
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Old 01-24-2006, 02:27 AM   #100
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must say this is quite interesting for a change....

over here in the uk the same old names appear in the top 20, and the same old same old peeps in the top 5 in stock and 19T.

it would be nice for these top 20 to be bumped up to mod. at national level...

how difficult can it be to beat the same old same old.

granted it takes skill and technical ability to have car and mind in perfect harmony, but surely the top guys wanna challange themselves to see if they can compete with the mighty mods.. or

are they just happy that they arnt beatable in stock or 19T...

surely if the latter is the case thats arrogance rather than progression and skill...

dominating a championship is one thing but if you keep doing it others will change class until either......

1. no one left to race so you move up

or

2. no new blood as they get demoralised and give up..

if you good in stock/19T to be constant a final winner or top 5 surely you have enuff talent to become potentially the next world champion....but if you dont move up you will never find out...

disappointment is part of life, find out if your good enuff or not?
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Old 01-24-2006, 06:37 AM   #101
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I'm sure everyone that is fast today had to start from the bottom and was so called new "blood". That's part of the game. It didn't discourage me but made me faster. The same guys that were the slow guys then are the slow guys today for the most part. So either they just don't have it or don't care. I can remember my first month of racing and it was horrible. 90% of my problems were because I wasn't prepared. In my honest opinion the slower guys (beginner or 15 year vet) have cars that are neglected and their pits are a mess. Maybe it's just coincidence but it seems that every track in Ohio this falls true. Next time you see someone complaining about how they are doing, check out their car and pit area. I'm not saying that is always the case but it seems more often than not.
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Old 01-24-2006, 12:10 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamescam
Moving to a class based system for each motor type (ie. Amateur Stock, Amateur Mod, Expert Stock, Expert Mod) may increase the overall entries to events as more people would feel as if they had a chance to be competitive.
THANK YOU

AND JEFF CUFFS DOES HAVE A FULL TIME JOB
AND SO DOES MARK SMYKA
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Old 01-24-2006, 12:21 PM   #103
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I must say when i started this topic , i was realy looking for both points of view i have mine and everyone else has theres..but the debate has been thought out very well the arguments for both sides have been impecable...

and i thank everyone for not bashing everyone else and haveing well thought out arguments and comments
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Old 01-24-2006, 12:22 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by jrighter
I'm sure Ian will agree with me here.. We tried this at our local track 2 years ago so the faster stock guys ran 19t to give the slower and less experienced guys a shot at winning. Within in 2 weeks we had no stock class and everyone was running 19t. The same guys that were complaining were now pissed and wanted to run with the faster guys to get better. You'll be lucky to make 10% of the racers out there happy so run whatever the heck your heart desires. You cannot base it on a timeline either. I've been racing for 4.5 years now total (tc for 3 years on and off) and most of the so called "slower guys" have at least 3-4 years on me. So where do you draw the line? I have to run mod because I come to the track prepared and have sponsors? Don't think so. I run stock because I can only race once a week with no practice, don't want to spend a life savings on tires (even with a discount they are $$), and don't like to cut after every run. I ran stock this weekend with some decent guys that have been doing this longer than I have, have sponsors and it was their home track but yet they are 2 laps down. Not my issue.
Exactly John!!! We tried 19t, all the slower guys moved to 19t, because they had NO BENCHMARK. Not every track is large enough for Mod, and not every track has a field of guys capable of running Mod. So the fastest stock guys return home to their 25 entry club races and they're supposed to run Mod all by themselves at home? If you wanna run with the factory Mod guys there's a level of time and committment that most individuals just can't approach, based not only on finances but schedule. Nearly all those whining that they want progression more than likely wouldn't make the show if the top 20 stock guys at Cleveland, the Birds, etc all moved on. Do you know why these drivers are that good? For some it's just pure talent, for others it's work ethic and the determination to win. Not once while some of the current fast stock guys were coming up, (and I can say this because I've been doing this damn near forever), have I heard Dayger, Cuffs or Pulfer say, man I wish WHOEVER would move to Mod. They just put their noses to the grindstone and made themselves better. I guess that's just not how our Microwave, instant coffee, society works anymore.
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Old 01-24-2006, 01:35 PM   #105
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Exactly! How many times have we begged CD to run stock knowing he would kill us?
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