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Old 01-23-2006, 05:13 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Turbo Joe
I wouldn't know...it's just an interesting question. Pretty funny you thought there was no whining in NASCAR, though...LOL...rather flies in the face of reality.
was just using it as a example of real racing guess I should have said formula1 or Touring. I dont watch NASCAR to many lefts not enough rights
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Old 01-23-2006, 05:35 PM   #77
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Default It's about the speed...

The speed of racing is just way faster then it was 10 years ago. Stock motors with IB 3800's are flat out faster then modified motors and Sanyo 1700's were years back. The average racer has no chance of running modified well if they don't practice 2-3 times a week. It is just that more difficult.

You will always see the same group of racers near the top of the stock mains until the speeds of the classes slow down. Stock racing is more difficult then ever and always getting quicker. Over the years I've seen a lot less people get into racing because of the speed. Stock SHOULD be slow and it SHOULD be a beginner class. Unfortunatly it is neither.

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Old 01-23-2006, 05:47 PM   #78
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I am just wondering, if a person thinks that the winner of a stock event should move up and not race in that class anymore, does that mean if someone wins a world championship mod event that he has to quit R/C racing to give the other mod racers a chance????
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Old 01-23-2006, 05:57 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by howard hudson
was just using it as a example of real racing guess I should have said formula1 or Touring. I dont watch NASCAR to many lefts not enough rights
F1 has teams of contracted whiners with Learjets... Dunno about the touring stuff...

The "haves vs. have-nots" issue permeates every form of motorsports, the bigger the exposure, the higher the stakes, the more whining and complaining. At a certain point, if you want to have a real race, you need to have a field, so as much as the "haves" want to keep having their way, they eventually need to throw the "have-nots" a few bones now and again.

It wouldn't be any fun to watch a NASCAR race with only 10 entries...actually, it's not much fun now...LOL...but it would be even less fun.

I think there may be a parallel here with RC. yeah, you get better by racing with faster people and all...but only if they're a little faster. I don't learn anything by getting punted all over the track by the "fast guys", I just get frustrated and don't go back. I bet I'm not the only one who's had those feelings.

Around here, I think it's probably safer to run mod if you're not one of the fast guys. At least you're only getting punted by a few guys instead of all 10. I've been doing 4WD Mod at SoCal lately...pretty much run-whatcha-brung and everyone has a good time.

Yeah, I get in the way of the faster guys, but they don't complain (and take you out) as much as the onroad guys do. All I have to do is drive carefully and I don't get last (lots of attrition). Plus, then I get the satisfaction that at least I'm bringing up the rear of the fast train, rather than mid-pack on the slow one.
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Old 01-23-2006, 05:59 PM   #80
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jeffb, the biggest thing really here that these guys are trying to say is, if you are good enough tohave a full factory sponsorship or even a partial, you are good enough to run in the higher more difficult class. The general feeling is that the stock class is designed for those who are starting off tryng to make a name for themselves. Not a class where you have already proven to be fast in and will be in the top 4-5 at every event they goto.

I love how people say that they don't move to a harder class because they do not want to loose. What was happeneing when you first started and what kept you racing till now? I bet it was the challenge of getting better. Unless those who are affraid to move up to a faster class even practices it, it is pointless in even saying you will loose. You had to practice to get fast in stock, just practice more till you LEARN mod.

I also love how they say stock is harder to win than mod, if that is the case, why don't all the top factory drivers running stock? It would be more prestigious if they can show their equipment is better in the harder of the two classes. Or if it is harder to win stock, then running mod would be easier, which is not the case.

Actually look at the top 5 stock drivers at most of these events mentioned. Where do they work a full time job at, I would bet almost every oneof them work for a manufacturer and are given the oppertunity to run at a track every day. Do you see any of the unsponsored drivers with this kind of oppertunity, highly doubtful.

In my opinion, Stock at these events should run a really slow motor(slowest on the market). But also that a STOCK NATIONAL CHAMPION should not even be a choice, let there be stock regional champs(with the ability to run more than one region in only the stock class).

Again, this is only my opinion.
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Old 01-23-2006, 06:03 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by jeffb
I am just wondering, if a person thinks that the winner of a stock event should move up and not race in that class anymore, does that mean if someone wins a world championship mod event that he has to quit R/C racing to give the other mod racers a chance????

I think it's pretty clear what people were talking about here ("Should elite-level drivers should move up to faster classes as they win championships in lower classes?")...unless you're just intentionally mis-reading it just to stir the pot.
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Old 01-23-2006, 06:05 PM   #82
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C'mon, that is just a odd statement. Listen if stock was all that, then why does it not have a world champion. What is trying to be said, is the "spirit" of stock is that the class is for the newer drivers. Not unskilled, just newer. When you win in a class that is less demanding, then the natural progression is to work at somethign that is harder to be a winner .

The comparisons to our spobby ( Sport Hobby) that are made to other types of racing or sports are not fair. There are ladder systems in some, and none in others, both work for thier respective sports. I ,as well as alot of other people believe that what we have now is not working best for the spobby. There are arguments for both sides, but I think we need to look at the state of things, and see how we can get more people in the door, race, and compete at larger events. I think a ladder system is attractive to alot of new drivers.

Gone are the days ( for the most part) of 125 entry club races.

As has been said in previous posts, this is just not on the racers shoulders, but in the sanctioning and manufacturers. Sometimes something that looks good in the short term , is not so good in the long run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb
I am just wondering, if a person thinks that the winner of a stock event should move up and not race in that class anymore, does that mean if someone wins a world championship mod event that he has to quit R/C racing to give the other mod racers a chance????
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Old 01-23-2006, 06:12 PM   #83
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Why do soooo many people relate "stock" to Novice. Each class has a unique quality to them. 19T and mod are faster so one assumes more skill. But you can make up a mistake easier with more HP.

This post is about big races. What does one consider a big race ? I am considering to run the Reedy Race at Tamiya this year if I can get into the lottery. Do I expect to make the A main. Heck no. Do I expect factory drivers to be better. Of course. It is usually thier driving skills that got them to the sponsered level. People need to go out and race and be realistic. What happens if your local track starts booting out the local fast guys because they are winning to much ? Eventually you will be the fast guy, winning races, and then you get booted out.

Racing is about competition. There will always be fast guys and slow guys. If your slow, and think things should be changed to get rid of the fast guys so you are the fast guy, you picked the wrong hobby. Time to find a different, more politicialy correct hobby to play in.
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Old 01-23-2006, 06:16 PM   #84
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What people are failing to realize (and by that I mean understand and comprehend) is that local stock and national stock are two totally different things. The national championships are *FOR THE CREAM OF THE CROP.* That's where the best of the best throw down to see who comes out on top. Wouldn't we all agree that's where beginners don't belong? But, at the local level, we have a different story. Stock IS where the beginners belong, and as their skill progresses, so does (should) their class.
**BUT**
We ARE NOT talking about the local level. Racing stock at the national level requires extremely smooth, consistent driving. And if you look at the results, for the most part, you will not see "clear" domination. At the '05 ROAR Nats, the lap times from stock of the A-Main were the following. 5:02.10, 5:05.80, 5:06.92, 5:07.70, 5:09.81. All those were 22 laps. the rest of the field dropped to 21 laps and lower. Look at the B-Main winners time- 5:05.05. Less then three seconds? Clearly, winning the stock championship requires skill, and as such, forcing people to move up will take away some of the luster of the title.
What I'm trying to show is that stock at the national level is not for the weak, faint of heart, or beginners. And since that's the case, there is no point in asking people to move up, because at this level, stock is as much of a class is as modified. And if we have people complaining about someone winning too much, they are ignorant, because they need to realize that they will not win everyday.
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Old 01-23-2006, 06:23 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPotter
The comparisons to our spobby ( Sport Hobby) that are made to other types of racing or sports are not fair. There are ladder systems in some, and none in others, both work for thier respective sports. I ,as well as alot of other people believe that what we have now is not working best for the spobby. There are arguments for both sides, but I think we need to look at the state of things, and see how we can get more people in the door, race, and compete at larger events. I think a ladder system is attractive to alot of new drivers.
We do have a ladder system in our sport. It's called differnt class levels. Here in So Cal (enteries permitting), you will see in stock class Novice / Intermediate / Sportsman / Expert. Most Sportsman and Expert drivers run either stock & 19T, or 19T and mod. Drivers should be allowed to run in classes they like. Don't penalize a guy who is real good and driving in the top level at a big race in stock by forcing him into another class. Tell the slower drivers in that same class to pick up their game.
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Old 01-23-2006, 06:24 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
Why do soooo many people relate "stock" to Novice. Each class has a unique quality to them. 19T and stock are faster so one assumes more skill. But you can make up a mistake easier with more HP.
Oh I love this statement. At which point of the wrech, did your mod motor or car get faster? I would be that most everyone in mod will be running very similar in performance motors. If not, then you should have been able to walk away from the field if you do not wreck. The same techniques used to make up time, which should be the line you should be driving anyway because it is faster unless you are trying to save tire wear, is the same techniques people use in stock to win. More HP does not always win the race, HP does not make it any easier to make up time because everyone has roughly the same HP, even in MOD.
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Old 01-23-2006, 06:37 PM   #87
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[QUOTE

Actually look at the top 5 stock drivers at most of these events mentioned. Where do they work a full time job at, I would bet almost every oneof them work for a manufacturer and are given the oppertunity to run at a track every day.[/QUOTE]

u r wrong on this one
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Old 01-23-2006, 06:46 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Joe
I think it's pretty clear what people were talking about here ("Should elite-level drivers should move up to faster classes as they win championships in lower classes?")...unless you're just intentionally mis-reading it just to stir the pot.
You are questioning my understanding of this concept, fact is beginners don't go to snowbirds and spend a thousand dollars to compete. I don't care who you are you should be able to run any class you wish. Factory drivers become factory drivers because they are great to begin with, they are not great "because" they are factory drivers.

My earlier post was short and to the point and as you can see others were able to grasp the depth of its contents quite easily.
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Old 01-23-2006, 06:52 PM   #89
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I saw someone make a analogy relating RC to the NBA. A better analogy maybe relating it to Baseball. There are a lot of players out there that are good enough to be drafted and signed to major league teams, BUT that doesn't always mean they are good enough to play in the big show. There are probably 20 players or more for every 1 player in the majors that wash out in the minor leagues. Just because someone can win at stock doesn't mean that they can do worth a darn in mod. These are drivers that are awesome wheel men and awesome car tuners, it doesn't matter what they run they can be fast; however on any given day they can be beat. Me personally, I do enjoy to win, but a win is even sweeter when I beat someone that used to beat me by 1 or 2 laps. When I beat that person, especially with the limited budget I run on, I know I am improving with my car setup and my driving. That's the whole reason I go to big races, I want to see where I stand with the top name drivers.
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Old 01-23-2006, 07:49 PM   #90
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I'm sure Ian will agree with me here.. We tried this at our local track 2 years ago so the faster stock guys ran 19t to give the slower and less experienced guys a shot at winning. Within in 2 weeks we had no stock class and everyone was running 19t. The same guys that were complaining were now pissed and wanted to run with the faster guys to get better. You'll be lucky to make 10% of the racers out there happy so run whatever the heck your heart desires. You cannot base it on a timeline either. I've been racing for 4.5 years now total (tc for 3 years on and off) and most of the so called "slower guys" have at least 3-4 years on me. So where do you draw the line? I have to run mod because I come to the track prepared and have sponsors? Don't think so. I run stock because I can only race once a week with no practice, don't want to spend a life savings on tires (even with a discount they are $$), and don't like to cut after every run. I ran stock this weekend with some decent guys that have been doing this longer than I have, have sponsors and it was their home track but yet they are 2 laps down. Not my issue.

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