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Old 01-31-2006, 03:02 PM   #91
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[Anders:
Who does the BRCA enforce the body rules for? Good question. I have no answer to this. Seems like tunnel-vision on the part of a few influential officials there. It's like they are trying to protect the "sanctity" of what they think rc cars should look like. As the look and shape of full size production cars as well as racecars continue to evolve and get more radical, they appear to really like things the way they were in the early 90's. I think that they're proud to be the "last bastion" for realism in the world. Problem is, the rest of the world is marching forward without them - figuratively speaking. As manufacturers, we've got to figure out how to stay in business and that means that we've got to listen to what the customer wants. If the markest was to swing toward those wild-n-wooly DTM bodies - guess what, we'd have to start producing them. Hope I don't offend anyone with my opinions. The BRCA is a great organization - one of the best in the world impo at what they do. There's a few officials that just need to see the "big picture" for the benefit of all.

Dale - PROTOform[/QUOTE]

Dale

I have the utmost respect for your company and the quality of your products.
I do not take offence at your comments, I will just have to get you at the next big meeting
But the 'Big picture' is following the rules the drivers vote for!
The rules of the class should limit how extreme the suppliers are allowed to go.
we must learn from mistakes of others in the past, slot cars made this mistake, If we have no limits we will end up with bodyshells like this

http://www.parmapse.com/slotpics/1018A.jpg

I am sure that some of the racers will want this, I do not. Do you?
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Old 01-31-2006, 03:03 PM   #92
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The realism element of the BRCA rules has been enforced as best as possible in recent years to try and avoid a situation where a touring car shell is a blob and a 1/12th shell is a cheese wedge.

It is thought by many racers that people from outside rc are more likely to get involved with the sport (and in particular on road classes) if the cars they see racing round their local track resemble the full sized versions on the TV. This is understandable, and one of the reasons why so many people follow the full scale world rally championship; they see a ford focus roaring through a forest at 100mph, and then see it again the next day in a car park at work!

However, it has been noted that the modern paint schemes, lighting styles etc... used by many drivers now mean that recognising a model car body shell to be a representation of a real racing car is virtually impossible; Only other racers themselves can regognise different shells on the track if they look very closely.

I think the rules have been relaxed this year for that very reason, although i think measures still need to be made to ensure we don't end up with slot car bodies like russ has pointed out.

Don't get me wrong, I think the speed 12 is a great looking 12th shell, but my favourite is the protoform speed 8, purely because it resembles the real car forward of the 'scoop' better than any of the current shells in my opinion. Having said that, theres no way I'd use it for racing when there are shells available that give better performance!

Just my 2p's (or should I say 2 cents?!) worth.

Mark Stiles - UK BRCA 1/12th scale national competitor
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Old 01-31-2006, 03:24 PM   #93
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Mark & Russ;
I couldn't agree with your comments any more. I guess it must be getting pretty obvious to you guys that I'm between the proverbial "rock and a hardplace". It's just too bad that good molds are so labour intensive - it would be nice to offer a larger range of body shells for the various tastes and sanctioning bodies out there. (and then hope and pray that they all sell reasonably well)
I appreciate all the comments - it's been an education. Thanks

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Old 01-31-2006, 03:30 PM   #94
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Yes, I agree with Mark. They should resemble the full scale vehicles. After all, the class name itself: "1/12th scale" means 1/12th of the real thing.

When I first saw the Speed 12, I thought it was pushing the limits of the GTP similarities. To me, it does not look like a driver could fit inside the cockpit of a Speed 12 if it was scaled up to full size.

Here's some reference examples of how big the cockpit's really are:




Click for full size picture:


To me, GTP cars are the most beautiful of all race cars. I hope the RC bodies of the future can stay true to their form.

Last edited by James35; 02-01-2006 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 01-31-2006, 03:50 PM   #95
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Thats a blast from the past! I remeber running BoLink Long Tail Porsche 962 bodies on my RC10L in 1989-90
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Old 01-31-2006, 05:33 PM   #96
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Dale - Could you imagine how cool it would look to see a field of touring cars that actually looked like the real full-scale thing?!?! It would certainly help with RCs appeal to those currently outside the hobby.

Ahh...maybe someday we'll see rear - underbody strakes and front winglets on our TCs. I'd like an Audi A4 with all the Aero trimmings myself.

Although in RCs defense...here is an actual G6 full-scale TC:
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NEW! PROTOform Speed 12B-g6wallpaper.jpg  
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Old 01-31-2006, 05:47 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet
Although in RCs defense...here is an actual G6 full-scale TC:
That's a GTO-R
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Old 01-31-2006, 07:03 PM   #98
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[QUOTE=Soviet]Dale - Could you imagine how cool it would look to see a field of touring cars that actually looked like the real full-scale thing?!?! It would certainly help with RCs appeal to those currently outside the hobby.[QUOTE]

If you have been racing for more than 10 you you don't have to imagine...you remember. We used to race HPI Accords, Audi A4's, Volvo S6's and Acura Integras. Very realistic and very ill handling bodies (we didn't know any better).

Then came the Protoform Nissan Primera and the Andy's Stratus followed by the Protoform Alfa 1.0 and Stratus 1.0.

The cars got faster and easier to drive with the race bodies and that was a lot more fun so that was the end of extremely realistic bodies.
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Old 01-31-2006, 09:00 PM   #99
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Just an idea.There does seem to a bit of interest in more realistic 1/12th bodies.Personally I am a great fan of the old Can-Am cars.Maybe you could try one realistic body to gauge the strength of interest and go from there.Would love to see a field of more realistic 12th's flying around the track.Mario.
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Old 01-31-2006, 09:13 PM   #100
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The question is, how close can it be before it looks too close to the real ones and somebody starts bitching about royalties.
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Old 01-31-2006, 09:51 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk
That's a GTO-R

Same thing...Pontiac...4 wheels...engine...same grill...close enough.
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:11 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
The cars got faster and easier to drive with the race bodies and that was a lot more fun so that was the end of extremely realistic bodies.
That's exactly right Adrian, and then Dale @ Protoform, the guys at Parma, etc etc had to decide if they wanted to lose their racer following or go with the trend which is function over form. Racers are going to push the limits of the rules irregardless of whether the "realism lovers" like it or not. They can push for rules that go all the way to the extreme of exact bodyline measurements and we will figure out a way to make it better.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the racing bodies not being exact. We have our own racing world and to be honest, our bodies look meaner and sexier then their real counterparts. Haven't you ever seen a Mazda 6 on the street and though "I wonder how wicked the real thing would look if it were a little lower and wider like the Protoform version....". I have. Plus if the realism guys want replicas they can buy lots of bodies that are excellent replicas, they just won't be as fast....lol. I say if you want to bitch at someone about replication, you should call the full size manufacturer and tell them you want your next automobile purchase to look more like a Protoform race body.
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Old 02-01-2006, 05:58 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDogRacing
That's exactly right Adrian, and then Dale @ Protoform, the guys at Parma, etc etc had to decide if they wanted to lose their racer following or go with the trend which is function over form. Racers are going to push the limits of the rules irregardless of whether the "realism lovers" like it or not. They can push for rules that go all the way to the extreme of exact bodyline measurements and we will figure out a way to make it better.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the racing bodies not being exact. We have our own racing world and to be honest, our bodies look meaner and sexier then their real counterparts. Haven't you ever seen a Mazda 6 on the street and though "I wonder how wicked the real thing would look if it were a little lower and wider like the Protoform version....". I have. Plus if the realism guys want replicas they can buy lots of bodies that are excellent replicas, they just won't be as fast....lol. I say if you want to bitch at someone about replication, you should call the full size manufacturer and tell them you want your next automobile purchase to look more like a Protoform race body.
Can we please keep this thread on proper racing cars, i.e. 1/12 scale, not those horrible touring car things.
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Old 02-01-2006, 07:04 AM   #104
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getting back on topic. Its a nice body Dale. Hopefully some of us make some decent use of it.
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:10 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDogRacing
...you should call the full size manufacturer and tell them you want your next automobile purchase to look more like a Protoform race body.
I heard that! I could totally see Dale at an automotive design house working clay molds for concept cars.
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