150LikesThe future of stock brushless motors?
03-01-2017, 02:11 PM
#226
Slow is based on perspective and the skill set of the racers involved in the class. When you are pushing your limits of patience and concentration, and not able to pay attention to the race around you, you're going too fast. Learning has stopped. Fear of crashing has begun. You're now in a fight for your life instead of having fun. Just as the pinnacle of motor sport, there is only so much talent that can handle the speed of even 17.5 and up at an international skill level. Comparisons of the past and present show that the 21.5 class is faster than the mod class of 20 years ago. Taking that into perspective, where is the new racer supposed to go? Oh yeah, the class that's so freaking fast for his skill set he can't compete, can't learn and is completely overwhelmed by. This has nothing to do with nationality. I'll bet you see it happen in Holland. New guy walks in, pays out big money to race, embarrasses themselves or afraid of the speeds you call slow and never returns. This isn't a complaint about the hobby in general, it's about keeping the new racer and getting more.
03-01-2017, 02:12 PM
#227
And as always after 15 pages not a single viable, enforceable option has been brought forward except mine. You are missing the point, the motor can only be claimed at the end of the race (main) so only one motor (the A main winner) can be claimed in a day. As any rule change this would have to be done slowly not suddenly over night. This would actually bring racers to the track, open your mind and think outside the box.
03-01-2017, 02:27 PM
#228
It's claimed after the race. If the top driver buys his new motors at the set price (let's say $80) then he looses nothing, and can actually buy a brand new motor. The guy who buys the motor then gets a "fast" motor, and an opportunity to make up another excuse when he loses at the next race. Problem solved! Everybody is happy!
03-01-2017, 02:59 PM
#231
It's claimed after the race. If the top driver buys his new motors at the set price (let's say $80) then he looses nothing, and can actually buy a brand new motor. The guy who buys the motor then gets a "fast" motor, and an opportunity to make up another excuse when he loses at the next race. Problem solved! Everybody is happy!
There have been many posts already justifying the high cost of brushless motors due to their low maintenance, long lifetime compared to the brushed motors of yore. Such a claim rule would just exacerbate the mindset that these motors are a single event consumable amongst the top racers.
03-01-2017, 03:27 PM
#233
To add to those questions;
Who gets the opertunity to buy it ?
What if more than one person wants it ?
How about just a full tare down of the winning motor ,like it's no longer useable ... But again most of the winners have motors handed to them to run in the Amains . Not to mention a guy could still use his 200 motor to qualify and then put his 80 motor in for the main ...
I want the motor he qualifies with if that's the case . Lol
But you guys , we will never agree on any of these details ... Honnesly I think that we need to take a pole . Only way to find a majority rule ... Maybe someone will pay attention to that .
Who gets the opertunity to buy it ?
What if more than one person wants it ?
How about just a full tare down of the winning motor ,like it's no longer useable ... But again most of the winners have motors handed to them to run in the Amains . Not to mention a guy could still use his 200 motor to qualify and then put his 80 motor in for the main ...
I want the motor he qualifies with if that's the case . Lol
But you guys , we will never agree on any of these details ... Honnesly I think that we need to take a pole . Only way to find a majority rule ... Maybe someone will pay attention to that .
03-01-2017, 03:45 PM
#234
1: add min resistance #s to rules for each motor
2: step down to 21.5 and let rules stay as they are
3: handout motor (race promoters choice)
4: roar takes bids on a seasonal motor to be used (all non roar races follows suit at there events )
5: sensorless ESC new roar approved software
6: brushed handouts
7a: 25.5 the new stock
7b: only stock25.5/mod
(Don't fix 1/12tho)
8: motor claim rule ($80 paid to winner for his motor after event is over)
9: we continue to bi+¢π and moan... Lol
2: step down to 21.5 and let rules stay as they are
3: handout motor (race promoters choice)
4: roar takes bids on a seasonal motor to be used (all non roar races follows suit at there events )
5: sensorless ESC new roar approved software
6: brushed handouts
7a: 25.5 the new stock
7b: only stock25.5/mod
(Don't fix 1/12tho)
8: motor claim rule ($80 paid to winner for his motor after event is over)
9: we continue to bi+¢π and moan... Lol
03-01-2017, 03:57 PM
#235
I've suggested implementing KV limit and gearing limit together before to help alleviate motor of the month issue if a club has that issue before but no one seems to believe it will work. It certainly worked for Tamiya Cup in Japan so I suggest look into it a little more. I know the Tamiya cup in Japan use a spec motor on top of KV limit and gearing limit but it should still help even if it will not completely level the performance.
I know people will say you can have two motor with same KV and performance will be a lot different. That is true I have to agree, you can have a 3000 kv 10.5 motor and a 3000 kv 17.5 motor and the 10.5 will smoke the 17.5 every single time. However this is only true if you free up the gearing. If rule calls for a high gearing value like 6.5 fdr, the advantage will dimmish greatly since the extra torque of a stronger motor becomes too much for the tire to handle and doesn't last enough to make a huge difference anyways since the optimal rpm band will quickly be exceeded anyway. The back emf of the motor will become the dominate drag force of the entire system much much sooner due to motor having to spin so fast under high FDR. This will really close the gap in terms of straightaway speed too.
If the track is small and people complain the 17.5 is too fast, then this solution is even better. The track will just have to do a post tech after the race for the top three finishers to check KV and gearing and it shouldn't be too much of a hassle.
I know people will say you can have two motor with same KV and performance will be a lot different. That is true I have to agree, you can have a 3000 kv 10.5 motor and a 3000 kv 17.5 motor and the 10.5 will smoke the 17.5 every single time. However this is only true if you free up the gearing. If rule calls for a high gearing value like 6.5 fdr, the advantage will dimmish greatly since the extra torque of a stronger motor becomes too much for the tire to handle and doesn't last enough to make a huge difference anyways since the optimal rpm band will quickly be exceeded anyway. The back emf of the motor will become the dominate drag force of the entire system much much sooner due to motor having to spin so fast under high FDR. This will really close the gap in terms of straightaway speed too.
If the track is small and people complain the 17.5 is too fast, then this solution is even better. The track will just have to do a post tech after the race for the top three finishers to check KV and gearing and it shouldn't be too much of a hassle.
03-01-2017, 04:05 PM
#236
I've suggested implementing KV limit and gearing limit together before to help alleviate motor of the month issue if a club has that issue before but no one seems to believe it will work. It certainly worked for Tamiya Cup in Japan so I suggest look into it a little more. I know the Tamiya cup in Japan use a spec motor on top of KV limit and gearing limit but it should still help even if it will not completely level the performance.
I know people will say you can have two motor with same KV and performance will be a lot different. That is true I have to agree, you can have a 3000 kv 10.5 motor and a 3000 kv 17.5 motor and the 10.5 will smoke the 17.5 every single time. However this is only true if you free up the gearing. If rule calls for a high gearing value like 6.5 fdr, the advantage will dimmish greatly since the extra torque of a stronger motor becomes too much for the tire to handle and doesn't last enough to make a huge difference anyways since the optimal rpm band will quickly be exceeded anyway. The back emf of the motor will become the dominate drag force of the entire system much much sooner due to motor having to spin so fast under high FDR. This will really close the gap in terms of straightaway speed too.
If the track is small and people complain the 17.5 is too fast, then this solution is even better. The track will just have to do a post tech after the race for the top three finishers to check KV and gearing and it shouldn't be too much of a hassle.
I know people will say you can have two motor with same KV and performance will be a lot different. That is true I have to agree, you can have a 3000 kv 10.5 motor and a 3000 kv 17.5 motor and the 10.5 will smoke the 17.5 every single time. However this is only true if you free up the gearing. If rule calls for a high gearing value like 6.5 fdr, the advantage will dimmish greatly since the extra torque of a stronger motor becomes too much for the tire to handle and doesn't last enough to make a huge difference anyways since the optimal rpm band will quickly be exceeded anyway. The back emf of the motor will become the dominate drag force of the entire system much much sooner due to motor having to spin so fast under high FDR. This will really close the gap in terms of straightaway speed too.
If the track is small and people complain the 17.5 is too fast, then this solution is even better. The track will just have to do a post tech after the race for the top three finishers to check KV and gearing and it shouldn't be too much of a hassle.
Vs a 3000kv 17.5 TSR
Will preform way different at ANY FDR ... Which means if it's open motor you must purchase multiple motors now to have on hand to match the specified fdr which just makes things worse
Not to mention tech headache... I set kV with my motorlizer and yours is now reading it 3100 then test it again and it's 3050... Not able to work .
But guess tech could set every individual motors kV . That will not take long to set sensor deviation