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The future of stock brushless motors?

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Old 10-23-2017, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Kelly View Post
I could have sworn you saw my MRage over summer. I know I brought it few times.
I geuss i missed it . Ill see it in the next Sidewinders race
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Old 10-23-2017, 05:59 PM
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Spec racing- you should see the spec legends racing at the birds. I used to race against these guy- not anymore. A good pan car can easly be sold if you con't like it easier than the cheaper cars. Get good stuff in the beginning .
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
You do not make racing better by making somebody buy all new equipment that has no use outside of the one "Low Cost For Fun" class that will only cost you money in the long run. We have tried this, it was called Tamiya Mini and I have never seen people spend more on racing than those who got serious about those plastic hunks of garbage.

Lets say someone bought all of this RJSpeed thing and went racing. They cannot use that car, motor, battery, esc, or any of the parts it would need in a real pan car class. Just buy a normal pan car or touring car that you can enter any pan or touring class with. It's not that expensive, I can build a competitive touring car for $500 rolling on the rug.

Gimmick classes are NOT what we need. If you want to make the future of brushless motors better get your LHS to use a spec motor with locked timing.

Totally agree. A few tracks in north east have adapted a locked timing fixed fdr spec class with great results
It's like a shot in the arm to electric racing
360v2
180 raceway
Jackson raceway
Johns mobile

At 360 we are using a locked timing
Hobbywing 10.5 in 1/12 and tc

In 1/12 it's .5 second per lap faster that 17.5 open was
And in tc it's .2 faster than 17.5 open was

It is not battery reliant class either
As we are using lighter lp packs 6000-5000 mah in tc
And most guys are not cycling anymore


Motor is 45 dollars. We are using a 650 fdr in tc
And fixed 43/80 in 1/12 with limit on rear tire set at 43mm

We have 80 guys pre entered / paid for motors for season
As well as more coming. So interest is there
Or should I say the disgust with motor of the month.
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil Trotta View Post
Totally agree. A few tracks in north east have adapted a locked timing fixed fdr spec class with great results
It's like a shot in the arm to electric racing
360v2
180 raceway
Jackson raceway
Johns mobile

At 360 we are using a locked timing
Hobbywing 10.5 in 1/12 and tc

In 1/12 it's .5 second per lap faster that 17.5 open was
And in tc it's .2 faster than 17.5 open was

It is not battery reliant class either
As we are using lighter lp packs 6000-5000 mah in tc
And most guys are not cycling anymore


Motor is 45 dollars. We are using a 650 fdr in tc
And fixed 43/80 in 1/12 with limit on rear tire set at 43mm

We have 80 guys pre entered / paid for motors for season
As well as more coming. So interest is there
Or should I say the disgust with motor of the month.

Right on Phill
This is the way to go. Great battles across all the main.
See you guys next week.
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:22 PM
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I'm curious to see how the Halloween Classic does this weekend with spec motors.
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:26 PM
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Set an RPM limit at the ESC side of things, (Must be doable, I recall my first brushless system had it, so does the Traxxas VXL)
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Old 10-23-2017, 07:46 PM
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And then it will be a torque war. Everyone will gear to the moon and hope their motor doesn’t turn to lava.

This is a battle that will never be won by the racer by setting arbitrary rules. I’m not an advocate for mod as it put a ton of wear on a car and the Ricky Bobby’s out there will throw a 3.5 turn on a carpet track and break someone’s ankle.

We ran a class locally last year wear the only rule was vintage HPI tires. That’s it’s. One guy ran a 10.5 another a 13.5. Most ran 17.5 as that’s all the tracks and tires could handle. Traction was the regulator, nothing else. Want to equalize the classes, start by getting rid of this super high traction fight we have going on.
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Old 10-23-2017, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil Trotta View Post
Totally agree. A few tracks in north east have adapted a locked timing fixed fdr spec class with great results
It's like a shot in the arm to electric racing
360v2
180 raceway
Jackson raceway
Johns mobile

At 360 we are using a locked timing
Hobbywing 10.5 in 1/12 and tc

In 1/12 it's .5 second per lap faster that 17.5 open was
And in tc it's .2 faster than 17.5 open was

It is not battery reliant class either
As we are using lighter lp packs 6000-5000 mah in tc
And most guys are not cycling anymore


Motor is 45 dollars. We are using a 650 fdr in tc
And fixed 43/80 in 1/12 with limit on rear tire set at 43mm

We have 80 guys pre entered / paid for motors for season
As well as more coming. So interest is there
Or should I say the disgust with motor of the month.
Very close racing indeed... Will the racers keep the motors at the end of the season ??? Would a vta style format increase attendance vs handout ??? Vta style would reduce wrenching time, increase track time, etc...

Last edited by bertrandsv87; 10-23-2017 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
You do not make racing better by making somebody buy all new equipment that has no use outside of the one "Low Cost For Fun" class that will only cost you money in the long run. We have tried this, it was called Tamiya Mini and I have never seen people spend more on racing than those who got serious about those plastic hunks of garbage.

Lets say someone bought all of this RJSpeed thing and went racing. They cannot use that car, motor, battery, esc, or any of the parts it would need in a real pan car class. Just buy a normal pan car or touring car that you can enter any pan or touring class with. It's not that expensive, I can build a competitive touring car for $500 rolling on the rug.

Gimmick classes are NOT what we need. If you want to make the future of brushless motors better get your LHS to use a spec motor with locked timing.
To each their own, I guess. The Legends class has been our longest running entry level class bringing in many new faces as well as bringing some old faces out of retirement. It has taught many the ropes who eventually graduated to TC and 1/12th scale and now WGT at our track.

You could just as easily spec one of these cheap cars with modern-day batteries and electronics. While that would allow some off roaders that already own equipment to join in, it makes the barrier to entry too high for some that race with us. The way we have them spec'd, no you can't really use any of it in any other class, but what you paid $200 for at the beginning of the season brand new becomes at least $100 in your pocket when it's time to move up a class and pass the torch to another new-comer. About $100 to run a 10-race series isn't too bad in my book. It's probably about what I spend on tires and bodies running 1/12th scale in the same series.

BTW, these RJ speed cars (in one form or another, AKA Bolink) have been around longer than most other classes that are run. I don't consider it a gimmick class. Splinter off another 1/10th scale touring car class with a different body and tires on it... That's a gimmick class. Maybe next week you TC guys can mount up bodies that look like riding lawnmowers, mount up some knobby tires and go racing in the hot new riding mower class: HOME | LetsMOW.com
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
You do not make racing better by making somebody buy all new equipment that has no use outside of the one "Low Cost For Fun" class that will only cost you money in the long run. We have tried this, it was called Tamiya Mini and I have never seen people spend more on racing than those who got serious about those plastic hunks of garbage.
Mini's are a trap. (says someone who owns two, and has bought four...) What stock is about, is limiting costs. Right now, that's not happening.

Lets say someone bought all of this RJSpeed thing and went racing. They cannot use that car, motor, battery, esc, or any of the parts it would need in a real pan car class. Just buy a normal pan car or touring car that you can enter any pan or touring class with. It's not that expensive, I can build a competitive touring car for $500 rolling on the rug.
World GT-R. With like $50 in adapters. I dislike the RJ Speed car because it sticks with the non touring car wheels and tires. That makes that idea more or less stillborn. [/quote]

Everyone in the touring car threads stays you need a current, or recent vintage x-ray, Associated 6 or 7, or awesomeatix to be competitive. While I don't necessarily believe that, I was at $400 for my TC4 build, and I have a $100 motor/esc and I had a $14 steering servo in it.

What would you like to see transfer over to other classes? Tires? ESC? Reciever? Steering Servo? Chassis?

Gimmick classes are NOT what we need. If you want to make the future of brushless motors better get your LHS to use a spec motor with locked timing.
Having a spec motor locks you into "your" shop. Unless it's say... the 253 rotor reedy 21.5 motor. There needs to be a well regulated "stock" motor, that all the big names agree on. "Big names" defined by IFMAR, Roar, USVTA.. well you get the idea.

Something on the order of a specified winding resistance, a tested KV value, motor weight, timing, etc... The current rules are far to open in that regard. And for giggles a name like "TrueStock" with a retail price of say.. $50. Enough that manufacturers can make a few bucks on it, but not so much that they want to spend development dollars on them.


Originally Posted by BullFrog View Post
Spec racing- you should see the spec legends racing at the birds. I used to race against these guy- not anymore. A good pan car can easly be sold if you con't like it easier than the cheaper cars. Get good stuff in the beginning .
You say that, but cheap stuff gets people in the door and rolling. ~everyone~ who plays paintball, has the $100 gun package they bought, used twice, and figured out what they really wanted before moving on to good equipment.

Selling a car is still a big hit to the wallet. More advanced cars have more things to screw up in the build, leading to more places you can just hit a frustration point and quit.

Selling a car is also difficult if you're not "on the inside". I'm at the track, and I see cars trade hands all the time. Between people who know each other, the cars move like water. "I" can't be involved in that, until I"ve spent the months, or years, it takes to be accepted as one of "them" and to get into that sort of thing.

Originally Posted by biz77 View Post
BTW, these RJ speed cars (in one form or another, AKA Bolink) have been around longer than most other classes that are run. I don't consider it a gimmick class. Splinter off another 1/10th scale touring car class with a different body and tires on it... That's a gimmick class.
There really are far to many touring car based classes. I think I listed 5. Then there's local classes, open tire classes... *shakes head*
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Old 10-23-2017, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Nerobro View Post
What stock is about, is limiting costs. Right now, that's not happening.
That really depends on who you ask. Stock is often interchanged with spec, but they don't really mean the same thing. I race stock because mod is too fast for me, not because it's cheaper. Spec classes often become more expensive, because eeking out ever so slightly more performance out of the equipment has a more significant effect to results, and pushing for that last bit of performance gets expensive with the law of diminishing returns. To limit costs, you have to specify exactly what you can buy (stock), not define the specifications of allowed equipment (spec).
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
You do not make racing better by making somebody buy all new equipment that has no use outside of the one "Low Cost For Fun" class that will only cost you money in the long run. We have tried this, it was called Tamiya Mini and I have never seen people spend more on racing than those who got serious about those plastic hunks of garbage.
It is the earn model of Tamiya. Sell them a plastic car for racing and allow them to get all options. That is why there are that much aluminium parts and even expensive TRF shocks are well bought....
If the Tamiya cup rules does limit the options it would be more affordable for the drivers but less interesting for Tamiya. Face it, brand specified cups have always this commercial background.

Originally Posted by theproffesor View Post
And then it will be a torque war. Everyone will gear to the moon and hope their motor doesnít turn to lava.

This is a battle that will never be won by the racer by setting arbitrary rules. Iím not an advocate for mod as it put a ton of wear on a car and the Ricky Bobbyís out there will throw a 3.5 turn on a carpet track and break someoneís ankle.

We ran a class locally last year wear the only rule was vintage HPI tires. Thatís itís. One guy ran a 10.5 another a 13.5. Most ran 17.5 as thatís all the tracks and tires could handle. Traction was the regulator, nothing else. Want to equalize the classes, start by getting rid of this super high traction fight we have going on.
Yes, with rpm limiting, even with a determed FDR a difference in torque will be the next thing to beat.
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