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Old 01-08-2006, 04:16 AM   #1
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Default Is brushless legal for on-road?

Can anyone tell me whether brushless is legal yet for on-road racing?
I know that it is IFMAR/ROAR legal for offroad.. I beleive it was approved some time last year..

How long before i can run my GTB legally?
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Old 01-08-2006, 04:18 AM   #2
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why are you angry anyway?
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Old 01-08-2006, 05:31 AM   #3
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You can run your GTB in any class......Speed Controllers are not approved by ROAR or IFMAR....

The motor is.....currently, Novak has two teardowns legal (used int he 4300, 5800, and Velociti series motors) and the Reedy NEO.....

They are legal in all modified electric classes......offroad, oval, and onroad....

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Old 01-08-2006, 09:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
You can run your GTB in any class......Speed Controllers are not approved by ROAR or IFMAR....

The motor is.....currently, Novak has two teardowns legal (used int he 4300, 5800, and Velociti series motors) and the Reedy NEO.....

They are legal in all modified electric classes......offroad, oval, and onroad....

Later EddieO
Yes, but if you use the 4300 in mod you will not be a happy camper since most folks say the 4300 performs like stock or at best 19T. I wish ROAR would approve some brushless for stock racing.

Ira
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Old 01-08-2006, 05:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iblumberg
Yes, but if you use the 4300 in mod you will not be a happy camper since most folks say the 4300 performs like stock or at best 19T. I wish ROAR would approve some brushless for stock racing.

Ira
Ummm, no. the 4300 is nowhere NEAR the power level of any stock motor(in other words, no stock motor can actually keep up with it). Even when using that rev limiter in its ESC, that motor still has the torque of a good 19 turn, & will outaccelerate ANY stock motor out there(so you just gear taller & it'll outrun any stock). Until they come up with one at the SAME power level as legal stock motors, then they should NOT approve them in ANY stock class. But for mod, they're just fine(in fact, I think a number of Mod Sedan guys at the Novak USTCC race this weekend were using brushless motors), so as long as your local track has no problem with it, go for it...
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Old 01-08-2006, 07:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzbob
Ummm, no. the 4300 is nowhere NEAR the power level of any stock motor(in other words, no stock motor can actually keep up with it). Even when using that rev limiter in its ESC, that motor still has the torque of a good 19 turn, & will outaccelerate ANY stock motor out there(so you just gear taller & it'll outrun any stock). Until they come up with one at the SAME power level as legal stock motors, then they should NOT approve them in ANY stock class. But for mod, they're just fine(in fact, I think a number of Mod Sedan guys at the Novak USTCC race this weekend were using brushless motors), so as long as your local track has no problem with it, go for it...
I do not want to get into a p!ss!ing contest here. However, just to make clear, I got my information on the Novak from Novak's site which says:

The SS4300 Racing Stock Brushless Motor is one of three brushless motors from Novak. Designed for use with either the Super Sport ESC (#3205) or the Super Sport Plus Brushless/Brush ESC (#1705), the SS4300 provides all of the advantages of the SS5800 Brushless Motor, but provides lower speeds for increased vehicle control for newer drivers, and longer run-times for those trying to get some valuable "practice" time on the track. With a Kv rating of 4,300 RPM/Volt, a Kt rating of 0.45 in-oz/amp, and a power output of 175 watts, the SS4300 Brushless Motor provides performance similar to a 27-turn racing stock brushed motor.

And also says:

SS4300 BRUSHLESS MOTOR FEATURES
Comparable to a racing stock brushed motor


This may be incorrect information, but if it is, then the manufacturer is the one spreading it.

Ira
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Old 01-08-2006, 07:44 PM   #7
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The 4300 is better than most stockers, but nowhere near as good as the best ones. I've run them since they came out (I have 2 4300 and a 5800)and I get beat on the straights in parking lot races by stockers all the time.

The torque thing...they have a very linear response that makes them seem to have more torque than they do. They pull very hard at part-throttle, but going to WOT doesn't make you go much faster.

I wish they were legal...it makes it way more fun to race. Just charge the batteries and go...all day long. Screw brush motors.
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Old 01-08-2006, 10:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iblumberg
I do not want to get into a p!ss!ing contest here. However, just to make clear, I got my information on the Novak from Novak's site which says:

The SS4300 Racing Stock Brushless Motor is one of three brushless motors from Novak. Designed for use with either the Super Sport ESC (#3205) or the Super Sport Plus Brushless/Brush ESC (#1705), the SS4300 provides all of the advantages of the SS5800 Brushless Motor, but provides lower speeds for increased vehicle control for newer drivers, and longer run-times for those trying to get some valuable "practice" time on the track. With a Kv rating of 4,300 RPM/Volt, a Kt rating of 0.45 in-oz/amp, and a power output of 175 watts, the SS4300 Brushless Motor provides performance similar to a 27-turn racing stock brushed motor.

And also says:

SS4300 BRUSHLESS MOTOR FEATURES
Comparable to a racing stock brushed motor


This may be incorrect information, but if it is, then the manufacturer is the one spreading it.

Ira
Yes, I know what their avertising says, but I've SEEN it ontrack & raced against one in the 19 turn class here. Trust me, I think I know what I'm talking about. Don't believe everything you read in an ad...
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Old 01-08-2006, 11:15 PM   #9
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The 4300 motor was the only motor allowed in the Novak Brushless class at this year's Novak race. It did laptimes between the fastest 19t and fastest stock times. Best 19t: 10.7 Best Stock: 11.3. A good lap in 19t was 11.0, good in stock was 11.6. Many of the best brushless drivers ran anywhere from 11.2 (fast lap) to 11.7. It was noticeably faster than stock but not quite the power of 19t.
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Old 01-09-2006, 02:35 AM   #10
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Wow -- .1 second is "noticeable"...dayum.

I bet you could also attribute that "noticeable" difference to extra track time or possibly the quality of the drivers in each class.
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Old 01-09-2006, 03:58 AM   #11
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EddieO - so my velocity 5.5r IS approved.. WooHOo...

But the gtb isn;t?!

This makes me angry..

Or rather.. ROAR and IFMAR don't have any regs in relation to ESC's? wow...

Nice.. now, to find a club that will let a noob race with a brushless motor. Better get some track time soon..
And no.. i'm not really angry all the time.,.
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Old 01-09-2006, 08:59 AM   #12
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Turbo Joe, I'm talking about A-main drivers vs. A-main drivers...so skill and track time is irrelevant. You weren't at the race, you didn't see it, and you didn't talk to people that ran them, so how would you know?
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Old 01-09-2006, 09:44 AM   #13
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Timmy Hesier and Ron Atomic were in both STOCK and Brushless.....so, the comparison works fine......


And the winner of Brushless......Former World Champion, Chris Doeseck......yeah, I think he can drive....

The brushless was a little faster than stock....not by much......we got to see 1-3 per round go into thermal mode and shutdown......did not see more than a couple stock motors do that all weekend.....they usually at least let you finish the run.....

And the 4300 was orginially touted to have the power of a 10 turn...

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Old 01-09-2006, 10:04 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McGreevy
Turbo Joe, I'm talking about A-main drivers vs. A-main drivers...so skill and track time is irrelevant. You weren't at the race, you didn't see it, and you didn't talk to people that ran them, so how would you know?
I was just repeating what *you* said...so if your "stats" are inaccurate...LOL...don't look at me.
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Old 01-09-2006, 10:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Timmy Hesier and Ron Atomic were in both STOCK and Brushless.....so, the comparison works fine......


And the winner of Brushless......Former World Champion, Chris Doeseck......yeah, I think he can drive....

The brushless was a little faster than stock....not by much......we got to see 1-3 per round go into thermal mode and shutdown......did not see more than a couple stock motors do that all weekend.....they usually at least let you finish the run.....

And the 4300 was orginially touted to have the power of a 10 turn...

Later EddieO
LOL...10 turn...yeah...that's not what I've ever heard...and I've had 4300s since they came out. They're better than most, but not all stockers. Most of the BS about them has come from brushed guys who've never touched one.

I'm just saying that .1 second "variance" (using that term very loosely) is pretty insignificant and I highly doubt you could spot that in a "blind" (deaf, really) test. R/C racers are about the most superstitious people I know. It would be interesting to actually crunch the numbers and see what the actual difference was.

As for the thermal deal -- that comes from running a super high gear -- BTDT. Sounds to me like it would be better to run a more normal gear and finish the race than try for every tiny little bit of straightaway speed. Same way with a brushed motor if you go too far, right? I know I see a couple of those go up in smoke at every club race.

Last edited by Turbo Joe; 01-09-2006 at 12:15 PM.
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