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Old 04-16-2006, 07:35 AM   #151
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Hmm, some things change from time to time. Remember those days when Sanyo was the cells to have and GP appeared. In the beginning the GP also were not that good but they did work hard to improve their cells and at a certain time Sanyo couldn´t keep up. Maybe this happens again with GP vs. IB maybe not, we will see.

From my own experience and speaking with some guys who are involved in battery matching the GPs were the strongest cells until now if you want using them for a longer time. Infact my 2 years old Orion GP 3300 still are working very good. But the problem is newer typ of cells do have a much higher voltage and you really can´t keep up at the race. I then had the chance testing some very good GP and IB packs from fellow racers and both worked very similar but much faster than my cells. But this was with stock racing only, can´t say anything on modified.
Another thing is IB really had problems with venting but this seems fixed now with the 4200 cells, also the IB seem much stronger now regarding their lifetime. But from what I hear on the latest GP cells those also seem not that strong anymore. This isn´t because GP makes bader cells now but the new 4200/4300 high capacity cells seem reaching a stage now were the internal structure have to be made different than previous cells.
For me this means GP doesn´t have any advantage anymore and finally I have bought some IB packs now especially as these are much cheaper.
I used them for two races now and they were really impressive. Just faster than anything else I tried before. Maybe I can´t use them such a long time as my GP3300 packs but if they work for me for the next 6-12 month this would be OK.

I´m pretty sure beside the typ of cells there are two other factors what will affect lifetime also. This is the way brandnew cells are treated/pushed and matched what will be different from matcher to matcher and other thing is the way you do care about them afterwards. I have changed this for my IB packs right from the beginning.
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Old 04-16-2006, 10:34 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frans H
why do you cycle the packs ?
Cycling packs is useful to monitor the packs performance and see how they are holding up. It's the equivalent of a motor dyno telling which motor has more torque and rpm.
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Old 04-16-2006, 10:56 AM   #153
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The very early batches of IB3800s had a higher percentage of venting cells but this has long been resolved. We still see some cells vent on our matching equipment but it's a very low percentage. We have also retested the cells that have vented and the numbers on the matching equipment stay about the same. A few US companys who have matched some of the latest GP cells tell me that they also see some cells vent on the matching equipment.

It has been our experience that if you treat your IB packs the proper way they will hold up as well if not better than any other pack currently on the market. We have some of our racers reporting that their packs are showing the same if not better numbers after being used since the start of the indoor season which is in the fall.

In the end racers should welcome competition in the battery market as this will lead to better cells and will make for lower prices or atleast keep them from increasing. As a former customer of GP the price of the GP3300 went up 25% in 18 months due to the 3300 being the only cell available worth racing. The retails from Peak/Orion on GP3300 use to be 120.00 for the top packs now on the GP4300 it's 100.00 retail which is exactly the retail we established for the IB4200s. So this proves that competition will benefit the racer.
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Old 04-16-2006, 11:16 AM   #154
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Old 04-16-2006, 03:15 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
Cycling packs is useful to monitor the packs performance and see how they are holding up. It's the equivalent of a motor dyno telling which motor has more torque and rpm.
In my experiences I never use a GP battery 2 times a day because I allways felt the GP performed a little less the second time. That's why I use the (GP) packs only once.
The IB cells on other hand performed better the second time used on 1 day.

I never checked these "experiences" by discharge nrs so.........

Thats why I asked.....

Frans

Last edited by Frans H; 04-16-2006 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 04-16-2006, 04:27 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frans H
In my experiences I never use a GP battery 2 times a day because I allways felt the GP performed a little less the second time. That's why I use the (GP) packs only once.
The IB cells on other hand performed better the second time used on 1 day.

I never checked these "experiences" by discharge nrs so.........

Thats why I asked.....

Frans
Maybe it depends what you define as "performed a little less the second time".
Using a pack two times a day, yes you may loose a little runtime. But I always had more punch the second time. This was with my GP3300 and this is the same now with my IB4200.
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Old 04-17-2006, 03:35 AM   #157
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Well this is my experience from last week end. Built 3 brand new IB 4200s, and one GP3700. Different matchers but both good matchers.

Out of the 3 IBs, only one would take its first charge well. The other two kept on false peaking. They had been trayed before hand on a Tekin battery doctor tray. After the run, trayed again, waited 4 hours and charged them again. Same story, only one worked (luckily, the one in my car, lol). The other two showed venting on at least one cell.

Now for the GP, zero false peak for both charges, no venting either.

On the track, the GP was as quick as the IB (racing mod), and the only limiting factor I could see was if I had a lower wind motor, I might not have been able to push for a whole run. Saying that my mate dumped his 4200s with an 8T (I used a 9T) because he pushed to get back behind me.

I know what I'll be getting, since I race 19T duration ain't a problem for me.
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Old 04-17-2006, 05:07 PM   #158
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Can someone recomend a maximum mAh setting for charging GP 4300's with the Orion Advantage charger?

I used to charge the GP 3700's with a maximum setting of 4200 as that was what Orion recommended - I haven't seen their recomended mAh for th3 4300's yet.

Thanks!
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Old 04-19-2006, 03:13 AM   #159
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Jack – What is it with you Americans that anytime that someone doesn’t agree with you that there has to be some form of hidden agenda! I call it as I see it – if an IB or a GP vents (the last one was a IB 4200 btw) then I will say so and not bow down before you or anyone else. I you don’t like the truth then that is just tough! As to venting, offering to replace cells is of no help to those of us not in the US.
As all the manufacturers are on the limit, it isn’t surprising that it takes a while for matchers to get their ‘zapping’ technique sorted for the new cells. That is almost certainly what happened at the DHI cup but whether they would admit that is another matter. I will question their useful life, as in my experience they haven’t been as good as previous cells and I look after my cells as the cost good money over here.

I’m all for competition but for the marketing bull that goes with it. The numbers game for starters is all a bit ‘my dad is richer than your dad’. What is it with everyone having cells put in their own heatshrink anyway, never mind the SP and SP2 stickers that are stuck on some cells.
Bringing out a 3600 then a 3800 and then a 4200 it a short period of time has been of little help to the shops and distributors who are stuck with stocks that hard-core racers don’t want. They have sell them cheaper which is a boon to the club racers just looking for a decent pack for stock and don’t need the latest kit. That is only real gain we have seen. IB may have been winning in the US and so they should, given that GP have dropped the ball, but have yet to win anything major over here.
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Old 04-19-2006, 06:20 AM   #160
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What is it with you Americans that anytime that someone doesn’t agree with you that there has to be some form of hidden agenda! I call it as I see it – if an IB or a GP vents (the last one was a IB 4200 btw) then I will say so and not bow down before you or anyone else. I you don’t like the truth then that is just tough

i`m afriad there are quite a few UK racers that see BRCA in this frame as well
IB`s are better (for now) then some thing else , then some thing else
roll on li-po
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Old 04-19-2006, 07:06 AM   #161
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Sorry Colin but I disagree with you on that point, IBs aren't any better. Matter of fact, I couldn't feel any difference between GP and IB on the track. And GPs are cheaper
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Old 04-19-2006, 07:57 AM   #162
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Frank N. Furter- bow down now to my hidden agenda or be banished to America!
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Old 04-19-2006, 08:21 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rimer
Frank N. Furter- bow down now to my hidden agenda or be banished to America!
Oh, VERY BIG DEAL
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Old 04-19-2006, 11:28 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRF415boy
Sorry Colin but I disagree with you on that point, IBs aren't any better. Matter of fact, I couldn't feel any difference between GP and IB on the track. And GPs are cheaper
crap only 1 point (not bad )
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Old 04-19-2006, 11:29 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rimer
Frank N. Furter- bow down now to my hidden agenda or be banished to America!

what is your hidden agenda Jack ??
does furter know some thing we don`t
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