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Old 01-09-2006, 01:35 PM   #76
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Hi Ernie, it's Peter - IFMAR, you remember!!

I see that the problems we had then are the problems we have now!! Just to set the record straight on this one, the product can be BRCA and EFRA approved because there is no requirement for product availability, as in IFMAR. I am not saying that makes sense, just that those are the requirements for approval.

So that everyone else is aware, these batteries may be approved, but they are not allowed for use in BRCA/EFRA events until 1 April 2006. This is to allow all the distribution network to get stock available for the racers. It also allows the racers to know what cells are approved for the next 12 months, so they don't go and buy cells and then find a better product is released a few weeks later.

Hope that clears things up a bit - even if it won't satisfy Ernie (ha ha!)
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Old 01-09-2006, 01:39 PM   #77
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Peter...

Great to hear from you....and the clarification. I guess I should be part "Brit" since NO this does not clear things up for me or satisfy me" since it does not make sense....lol

Glad you are still involved....when am I going to get to see you again?

All the Best..E
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Old 01-09-2006, 01:42 PM   #78
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fjm9898....

Thanks for the explanation on the "inner workings" of IB and GP and how they have to produce cells in advance etc etc.

I think (?) could be wrong as usual (lol) that the cell legality issue has to be 100,000pcs....at least this is what it used to be in ROAR a few years back...not sure about IFMAR and from Peter says...EFRA needs no samples...lol. The Brits (English Federation of Racers Association....lol) seem to have it right...they have simplified everything....

For those that do not know....I AM JOKING.....
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Old 01-09-2006, 01:46 PM   #79
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Ernie,

We both know it doesn't make total sense, but it's all we have... LOL!!

If you're coming over here anytime, just let me know and we'll meet up. I'm not due to come to the US anytime soon, so unless you would like a week in the Canary Islands for the Europen 12th Championships, I might see you in Italy for the IFMAR World Champs.

Just bought a Black Widow, and am driving for Helger - cool car!

I hope all is well with you and yours, and if you PM me I'll give you my e-mail address and we can catch up on old times!!

Sorry to hijack the thread guys!

Peter
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Old 01-09-2006, 02:42 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieP
Of course...I think it is astounding that a product can gain EFRA legality...or legality for any organization when it has not even been released to the market yet.....

If there are no parameters for EFRA.....to test anything...then WHY HAVE ANY RULES? MAKE EVERYTHING LEGAL!
I urgue to read the whole pdf. At the bottom you can see that they DID test batteries.

So, please have all the facts before you go after someone

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Old 01-09-2006, 03:10 PM   #81
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NNick,

Sorry, you are not correct. The last paragraph says that they measured them, not that they tested them. This means they check the dimensions in accordance with the EFRA rules, not that they test them by doing any charging, discharging or other testing of their performance.

This is what ErnieP means - if you simply approve cells on a dimension, you have no idea what is in them. And if the cells sent for approval are not the production cells, then what is the approval worth? I might not always agree with Ernie, but he does have a point!
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Old 01-09-2006, 03:15 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne
NNick,

Sorry, you are not correct. The last paragraph says that they measured them, not that they tested them. This means they check the dimensions in accordance with the EFRA rules, not that they test them by doing any charging, discharging or other testing of their performance.

This is what ErnieP means - if you simply approve cells on a dimension, you have no idea what is in them. And if the cells sent for approval are not the production cells, then what is the approval worth? I might not always agree with Ernie, but he does have a point!
It does not matter what is in them. As long as it is 1.2V, sub-c that meets dimensional requirements, it will be legalized.
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Old 01-09-2006, 03:16 PM   #83
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I might be wrong but the sentence "Typical 4100Mah ...." means that they did some sort of testing. i don't know what or how accurate is but they did something. I'm sure they do same tests on all batteries they receive

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Old 01-10-2006, 07:47 AM   #84
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Rick...I know this is not your quote or your feeling but this has to be the "quote of the century"......

It does not matter what is in them. As long as it is 1.2V, sub-c that meets dimensional requirements, it will be legalized.


I thought we had issues in ROAR....
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Old 01-10-2006, 07:59 AM   #85
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New for EFRA is that there are two windows per year now for approval.
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Old 01-10-2006, 08:00 AM   #86
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Anders...why do they need "windows" or "time set aside for approvals" if everything is basically legal?
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Old 01-10-2006, 08:38 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieP
Rick...I know this is not your quote or your feeling but this has to be the "quote of the century"......

It does not matter what is in them. As long as it is 1.2V, sub-c that meets dimensional requirements, it will be legalized.


I thought we had issues in ROAR....
I am assuming the cells actually work and plain "shells" are not submitted. But the internal construction of the cell or its capacity has no bearing on approvals. GP could submit cells with GP5000 shrink on a GP3300 cell and there is no reason it should not be legalized.

A pack could contain six miniature nuclear reactors and as long as they meet the size requirements they can be approved (ROAR).
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Old 01-10-2006, 08:42 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieP
Anders...why do they need "windows" or "time set aside for approvals" if everything is basically legal?
I guess to avoid having new cells coming out the day before a race.
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Old 01-10-2006, 08:52 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
I guess to avoid having new cells coming out the day before a race.
That makes alot of sense. I don't know how the racing seasons are in Europe but here in the States there is a distinct difference between the indoor (carpet) season and the outdoor season. More so in the cold weather states though.
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Old 01-10-2006, 09:02 AM   #90
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I wonder if we can get the two active GP4300 threads merged or something? The discussions in both are kind of at the same point right now (ROAR vs BRCA/EFRA) anyway... any moderators reading this?

Anyway, earlier in the thread some folks were complaining about TO coming out with new cells already, and 'needing' new cells, etc. - TO and Trinity don't make the things, racers and bashers demand more runtime so IB and GP respond. If you don't plan to pick these cells up, well you have TO and Trinity top dawgs here, reading and replying! I wouldn't be surprised to see 4200/4300 stick packs be announced in the next few weeks, for all the E-Zilla/E-Maxx/boat owners out there.

I think the BRCA/EFRA battery application time (1 Jan. and 1 Aug. IIRC) is a great idea, between the two racing seasons and it tells racers 'no new cells will be available until THIS date', etc.
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