128LikesXray T4'17
07-20-2017, 02:09 AM - Wikipost
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Welcome to the XRAY T4'17 Thread & Wikipost! Here you will find some useful info, tips and tricks as well as setups that are used by several team drivers. This wikipost is a work in progress and should continue to develop over time. Feel free to add anything you feel is useful to the community!
New for 2017: The T4'17 comes available with either a Graphite chassis, or Aluminum Flex chassis. We recommend the Graphite chassis for starting on asphalt, and the Aluminum Flex for starting on carpet. The 2017 also comes standard with the floating swing rack as an option, and the Composite Graphite arms included. Most of the team prefers the Graphite arms for both asphalt and carpet, though sometimes Hard arms may be ideal for asphalt depending on the conditions. This year's car also comes with the new "In-line Flex Adjustment" which provides many more flex adjustments than in the past allowing you to focus & fine-tune on forward/back flex and side-to-side flex both together & independently. Additionally, the Ackermann has been moved back by 1mm and the spacing of the RF blocks is wider, creating 0.5° less rear toe from previous T4 models. What's NEW at T4 2017? Convert your '16 to '17 specs with these parts: - NEW chassis plate (3 options to chose from below) - NEW Motor holder - NEW Motor holder plate - NEW center shaft holder - NEW Floating Servo Mount 301142 T4'17 CHASSIS 2.2MM GRAPHITE 301143 T4'17 ALU CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6 301144 T4'17 ALU FLEX CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6 302536 ALU STEERING POST FOR FLOATING SERVO SAVER (2) 303066-O T4'17 ALU LAYSHAFT BULKHEAD CLOSED L/R - ORANGE 303067-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT - ORANGE 303068-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - ORANGE 306204-O T4'17 ALU SERVO MOUNT - ORANGE 306233 T4'17 GRAPHITE FLOATING SERVO HOLDER 3.0MM 306530 T4'17 GRAPHITE CHASSIS STIFFENER 3.0MM Tips & Tricks: Alex Hagberg's Tech Tip Tuesday articles How to mount your Protoform LTC-R Body Setting static camber How to mount weight on your chassis Part1 How to mount the rear wing on Protoform bodies Simple troubleshooting guide How to mount the battery on your chassis How to glue your front tires for CRC Black carpet with Eric Anderson Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing Exponential and RMode How to mount weight on your chassis Part2 Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing TH-Hold Team driver Tim Wahl posted some very useful build tips for the T4'16 on Facebook as he worked through building a new kit. These tips will still apply on the current model. 1- Carbon Parts 2-Suspension 3-Solid Axle and Differential 4-Bulkheads & Drivetrain 5-Driveshaft (ECS & CVD) 6-Front & Rear Suspension 7-Tweak 8-Anti-Roll Bar 9-Battery Fix (OPTIONAL) 10-Bumper & Body 11-Shocks 12-Steering Center Brace: The manual indicates using a 2mm shim under the center brace when attaching to the chassis plate. The gap is actually 3mm, so a 3mm shim should be used here. Tuning Note: On Carpet we have found that adding screws or doubling up the graphite brace will make the car react quicker to steering input, & change direction faster. Raising the graphite brace off of the aluminum bulkheads by placing a shim under it on the front and rear holes will reduce response. Using the tie-rod will reduce initial response to input, but will generate more in-corner traction or 'side-bite'. Using no brace will generate even more of this 'side-bite' but all of this is at the expense of corner speed. Best to use the tie-rod or no brace only in low-traction conditions. Additionally, the center brace increases forward traction, so removing it will potentially increase wheel-spin out of low speed corners. New Graphite Hubs: Xray have recently released some additional Graphite hubs for the T4 lineup. The 4° Graphite C-Hub has been out for some time and is known to improve steering on entry, and in general makes the car turn better. This has been the go-to c-hub on asphalt for many on the Xray team, though it is not needed on high bite carpet. The Graphite rear hub tends to make the car more stable, especially on corner entry. We are still working on gathering input on the new Graphite steering block, but for the moment feel that it should improve steering response. All Graphite parts are approximately 1g lighter than the Hard or Medium options. ARS Tuning courtesy of Ed (TryHard): If you set the ARS up with no shims under either inside or outside ball positions, it actually adds toe-in under compression, at around 1° at 5.2mm ride height (how much it adds depends how much the car compresses, obviously  )Adding shims reduces the amount added (1mm under one of the links gives about 0.5°), until the link has 2mm worth of shims (1mm either side, or 2mm on one side) makes the ARS neutral. Adding more shims then turns it into reducing toe in under compression. Whilst that might sound a bit backwards, it's actually not quite as simple as it sounds. By having the links to add toe, you gain forward traction. Also consider as the car rolls, the inside wheel is in negative compression, and the outside in compression. So the inside is toe-ing out, and the outside toe-ing in, so the whole rear is then 'steering' in the direction of the turn. Obviously the inside wheel has a lot less influence than the outside as it's far less loaded, but the effect is still there. Optional & Tuning Parts to consider: XRA301196 T4 Graphite Upper Deck 1.6mm V2 XRA302254 Composite Steering Block - Graphite XRA302334 Aluminum C-Hub Block - Caster 0° - Orange *Only for ARS* XRA302383 Composite C-Hub Right – 4° - Graphite (ECS) XRA302384 Composite C-Hub Left – 4° - Graphite (ECS) XRA302711 Brass Front Lower 1-Piece Suspension Holder - Front - FF XRA302803 1.3mm Front Anti-Roll Bar XRA303360 Composite Upright 0° Outboard Toe-In - Graphite XRA303802 1.2mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar XRA305137 Steel Solid Axle Driveshaft Adapters - HUDY Spring Steel *Highly recommend* XRA305242 Composite Drive Shaft Replacement Cap 3.5mm – Orange – Strong (QTY 4) XRA305351 Aluminum Wheel Hub – Offset “-0.75mm” – Black (QTY 2) XRA305352 Aluminum Wheel Hub - Offset “+0.75mm” - Black (QTY 2) XRA306191 T4 Graphite + Aluminum Fully Adjustable Battery Holder XRA308264 4S Spring-Set Progressive C=2.5-2.8 (QTY 2) XRA308276 4S Spring-Set C=2.7 (QTY 2) XRA308286 4S Spring-Set C=2.6 (QTY 2) XRA308039 Aluminum Progressive Shock System – Set (QTY 2) *Only for asphalt* Recent Setups: Bruno Coelho - IIC 2016 - High Bite Carpet - Modified Alex Hagberg - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified Jan Ratheisky - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - 13.5 Chris Adams - Halloween Classic - High Bite Carpet - Modified Chris Adams - ROAR Region 9 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified Craig Xavier - US Indoor Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 Bruno Coelho - ETS Rd1 Hrotovice - Med Bite Carpet - Modified Craig Xavier - Stock Wars - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 Jan Ratheisky - DHI Cup - Med Bite Carpet - 13.5 Chris Adams - Texas EOS Rd 1 - High Bite Carpet - Modified Alex Hagberg - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified Robbie Dodge - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 Jan Ratheisky - TITC - High Bite Asphalt - 13.5 Drew Ellis - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified Eric Anderson - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - Modified Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - 17.5 Dan Hamann - MN State Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 
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06-16-2017, 05:49 AM
#1216
What are the advantages of a zero rebound shock ? I race on asphalt, would it help ? Thanks
06-16-2017, 06:06 AM
#1217
I don't know. I do know that I like the consistency of this setup because it doesn't change over time and I don't re-do my shocks every race day. I've tried setting the rebound in the past but found that over time they went down to zero rebound. So I set them up at zero and don't worry about it.
06-16-2017, 06:57 AM
#1218
I don't know. I do know that I like the consistency of this setup because it doesn't change over time and I don't re-do my shocks every race day. I've tried setting the rebound in the past but found that over time they went down to zero rebound. So I set them up at zero and don't worry about it.
BTW, we race at the same place
06-16-2017, 07:28 AM
#1219
I think rebound gives the sensation of more traction, but I've never run more than @ 25%. I don't think rebound is ideal for a bumpy track, though I could be wrong. Dead or 0% makes less grip in my opinion so it is good for carpet or high bite conditions. I typically also run 0% because it's easier to build consistently and I'm lazy and don't feel like rebuilding often.
06-16-2017, 08:16 AM
#1220
I think rebound gives the sensation of more traction, but I've never run more than @ 25%. I don't think rebound is ideal for a bumpy track, though I could be wrong. Dead or 0% makes less grip in my opinion so it is good for carpet or high bite conditions. I typically also run 0% because it's easier to build consistently and I'm lazy and don't feel like rebuilding often.
06-16-2017, 08:24 AM
#1221
06-16-2017, 09:58 AM
#1222
Help the handling? Maybe if you're good enough to tell the difference between small changes but I can't tell much/any difference. I think Robbie's description is pretty accurate but the effect is pretty marginal when I've tried it. I'm not saying it's not worth looking into because everybody has a little different feel they like from the car but for me I prefer the consistency of zero rebound that allows me to play with other things.
06-16-2017, 11:59 AM
#1223
06-16-2017, 07:18 PM
#1225
Tech Master
06-19-2017, 03:05 AM
#1226
I am currently trying to get more rotation out of my setup. The car is planted on the track but I really want it to rotate a little bit better than it does right now.
Since I cannot do test runs until the weekend and then only for 30 minutes prior to the start of the race, but have time to work on the car during the week one of my "ideas" was to change the rear toe in from 3 to 2.5 degrees.
Currently I am using the base asphalt setup with the only difference being 2.5 - 2.8 springs in the front and 2.6 ones in the rear.
Since I cannot do test runs until the weekend and then only for 30 minutes prior to the start of the race, but have time to work on the car during the week one of my "ideas" was to change the rear toe in from 3 to 2.5 degrees.
Currently I am using the base asphalt setup with the only difference being 2.5 - 2.8 springs in the front and 2.6 ones in the rear.
06-19-2017, 03:55 AM
#1227
I am currently trying to get more rotation out of my setup. The car is planted on the track but I really want it to rotate a little bit better than it does right now.
Since I cannot do test runs until the weekend and then only for 30 minutes prior to the start of the race, but have time to work on the car during the week one of my "ideas" was to change the rear toe in from 3 to 2.5 degrees.
Currently I am using the base asphalt setup with the on
ly difference being 2.5 - 2.8 springs in the front and 2.6 ones in the rear.
Since I cannot do test runs until the weekend and then only for 30 minutes prior to the start of the race, but have time to work on the car during the week one of my "ideas" was to change the rear toe in from 3 to 2.5 degrees.
Currently I am using the base asphalt setup with the on
ly difference being 2.5 - 2.8 springs in the front and 2.6 ones in the rear.
06-19-2017, 04:04 AM
#1228
I am currently trying to get more rotation out of my setup. The car is planted on the track but I really want it to rotate a little bit better than it does right now.
Since I cannot do test runs until the weekend and then only for 30 minutes prior to the start of the race, but have time to work on the car during the week one of my "ideas" was to change the rear toe in from 3 to 2.5 degrees.
Currently I am using the base asphalt setup with the only difference being 2.5 - 2.8 springs in the front and 2.6 ones in the rear.
Since I cannot do test runs until the weekend and then only for 30 minutes prior to the start of the race, but have time to work on the car during the week one of my "ideas" was to change the rear toe in from 3 to 2.5 degrees.
Currently I am using the base asphalt setup with the only difference being 2.5 - 2.8 springs in the front and 2.6 ones in the rear.
1) go back to 2.5 rear spring, softer will generate less side bite
2) try short rear link, this typically rotates more for everyone running Xray at my local track
3) raise the inside of the rear link from 1mm to 2mm.
4) add anti-squat by raising the RF (split) blocks from center to 1 up.
5) much smaller change, remove the 3mm shim at the top of the rear shock. This makes the shock less progressive and lets the car rotate more.
My local track has pretty good bite and those are some things that we do to help our cars rotate when they get too stuck.
06-19-2017, 04:40 AM
#1229
I would suggest the following for more rotation:
1) go back to 2.5 rear spring, softer will generate less side bite
2) try short rear link, this typically rotates more for everyone running Xray at my local track
3) raise the inside of the rear link from 1mm to 2mm.
4) add anti-squat by raising the RF (split) blocks from center to 1 up.
5) much smaller change, remove the 3mm shim at the top of the rear shock. This makes the shock less progressive and lets the car rotate more.
My local track has pretty good bite and those are some things that we do to help our cars rotate when they get too stuck.
1) go back to 2.5 rear spring, softer will generate less side bite
2) try short rear link, this typically rotates more for everyone running Xray at my local track
3) raise the inside of the rear link from 1mm to 2mm.
4) add anti-squat by raising the RF (split) blocks from center to 1 up.
5) much smaller change, remove the 3mm shim at the top of the rear shock. This makes the shock less progressive and lets the car rotate more.
My local track has pretty good bite and those are some things that we do to help our cars rotate when they get too stuck.
Regarding 3.) this lowers the rear rollcenter which in my experience gives me more rear traction and more understeer. Initially I started (ended up) at 2 inner 3 outer mm on my track since traction was very low and I did not have any grip at all.
Since the traction increased in the meantime I reverted this back to 1 inner and 4 outer which freed the car up and gave me more response.
I am a little bit confused right now.
What about changing the diff postion from bottom to top for both diffs?
06-19-2017, 04:55 AM
#1230
thanks for the feedback.
Regarding 3.) this lowers the rear rollcenter which in my experience gives me more rear traction and more understeer. Initially I started (ended up) at 2 inner 3 outer mm on my track since traction was very low and I did not have any grip at all.
Since the traction increased in the meantime I reverted this back to 1 inner and 4 outer which freed the car up and gave me more response.
I am a little bit confused right now.
What about changing the diff postion from bottom to top for both diffs?
Regarding 3.) this lowers the rear rollcenter which in my experience gives me more rear traction and more understeer. Initially I started (ended up) at 2 inner 3 outer mm on my track since traction was very low and I did not have any grip at all.
Since the traction increased in the meantime I reverted this back to 1 inner and 4 outer which freed the car up and gave me more response.
I am a little bit confused right now.
What about changing the diff postion from bottom to top for both diffs?
I've not tested diffs up vs. down yet. I also started with the Base Asphalt setup and have been running very close to that the past month with pretty good success so far. I planned to test a few different roll center settings this weekend along with diff heights.