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Xray T4'17

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Old 07-20-2017, 02:09 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: Xray T4'17
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Welcome to the XRAY T4'17 Thread & Wikipost! Here you will find some useful info, tips and tricks as well as setups that are used by several team drivers. This wikipost is a work in progress and should continue to develop over time. Feel free to add anything you feel is useful to the community!

New for 2017:
The T4'17 comes available with either a Graphite chassis, or Aluminum Flex chassis. We recommend the Graphite chassis for starting on asphalt, and the Aluminum Flex for starting on carpet. The 2017 also comes standard with the floating swing rack as an option, and the Composite Graphite arms included. Most of the team prefers the Graphite arms for both asphalt and carpet, though sometimes Hard arms may be ideal for asphalt depending on the conditions. This year's car also comes with the new "In-line Flex Adjustment" which provides many more flex adjustments than in the past allowing you to focus & fine-tune on forward/back flex and side-to-side flex both together & independently. Additionally, the Ackermann has been moved back by 1mm and the spacing of the RF blocks is wider, creating 0.5° less rear toe from previous T4 models.

What's NEW at T4 2017? Convert your '16 to '17 specs with these parts:

- NEW chassis plate (3 options to chose from below)
- NEW Motor holder
- NEW Motor holder plate
- NEW center shaft holder
- NEW Floating Servo Mount

301142 T4'17 CHASSIS 2.2MM GRAPHITE
301143 T4'17 ALU CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6
301144 T4'17 ALU FLEX CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6

302536 ALU STEERING POST FOR FLOATING SERVO SAVER (2)
303066-O T4'17 ALU LAYSHAFT BULKHEAD CLOSED L/R - ORANGE
303067-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT - ORANGE
303068-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - ORANGE
306204-O T4'17 ALU SERVO MOUNT - ORANGE
306233 T4'17 GRAPHITE FLOATING SERVO HOLDER 3.0MM
306530 T4'17 GRAPHITE CHASSIS STIFFENER 3.0MM

Tips & Tricks:

Alex Hagberg's Tech Tip Tuesday articles

How to mount your Protoform LTC-R Body
Setting static camber
How to mount weight on your chassis Part1
How to mount the rear wing on Protoform bodies
Simple troubleshooting guide
How to mount the battery on your chassis
How to glue your front tires for CRC Black carpet with Eric Anderson
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing Exponential and RMode
How to mount weight on your chassis Part2
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing TH-Hold

Team driver Tim Wahl posted some very useful build tips for the T4'16 on Facebook as he worked through building a new kit. These tips will still apply on the current model.

1- Carbon Parts
2-Suspension
3-Solid Axle and Differential
4-Bulkheads & Drivetrain
5-Driveshaft (ECS & CVD)
6-Front & Rear Suspension
7-Tweak
8-Anti-Roll Bar
9-Battery Fix (OPTIONAL)
10-Bumper & Body
11-Shocks
12-Steering

Center Brace:
The manual indicates using a 2mm shim under the center brace when attaching to the chassis plate. The gap is actually 3mm, so a 3mm shim should be used here.

Tuning Note:
On Carpet we have found that adding screws or doubling up the graphite brace will make the car react quicker to steering input, & change direction faster. Raising the graphite brace off of the aluminum bulkheads by placing a shim under it on the front and rear holes will reduce response. Using the tie-rod will reduce initial response to input, but will generate more in-corner traction or 'side-bite'. Using no brace will generate even more of this 'side-bite' but all of this is at the expense of corner speed. Best to use the tie-rod or no brace only in low-traction conditions. Additionally, the center brace increases forward traction, so removing it will potentially increase wheel-spin out of low speed corners.

New Graphite Hubs:
Xray have recently released some additional Graphite hubs for the T4 lineup. The 4° Graphite C-Hub has been out for some time and is known to improve steering on entry, and in general makes the car turn better. This has been the go-to c-hub on asphalt for many on the Xray team, though it is not needed on high bite carpet. The Graphite rear hub tends to make the car more stable, especially on corner entry. We are still working on gathering input on the new Graphite steering block, but for the moment feel that it should improve steering response. All Graphite parts are approximately 1g lighter than the Hard or Medium options.

ARS Tuning courtesy of Ed (TryHard):
If you set the ARS up with no shims under either inside or outside ball positions, it actually adds toe-in under compression, at around 1° at 5.2mm ride height (how much it adds depends how much the car compresses, obviously )

Adding shims reduces the amount added (1mm under one of the links gives about 0.5°), until the link has 2mm worth of shims (1mm either side, or 2mm on one side) makes the ARS neutral. Adding more shims then turns it into reducing toe in under compression.

Whilst that might sound a bit backwards, it's actually not quite as simple as it sounds. By having the links to add toe, you gain forward traction. Also consider as the car rolls, the inside wheel is in negative compression, and the outside in compression. So the inside is toe-ing out, and the outside toe-ing in, so the whole rear is then 'steering' in the direction of the turn. Obviously the inside wheel has a lot less influence than the outside as it's far less loaded, but the effect is still there.

Optional & Tuning Parts to consider:
XRA301196 T4 Graphite Upper Deck 1.6mm V2
XRA302254 Composite Steering Block - Graphite
XRA302334 Aluminum C-Hub Block - Caster
0° - Orange *Only for ARS*
XRA302383 Composite C-Hub Right – 4
° - Graphite (ECS)
XRA302384 Composite C-Hub Left – 4
° - Graphite (ECS)
XRA302711 Brass Front Lower 1-Piece Suspension Holder - Front - FF
XRA302803 1.3mm Front Anti-Roll Bar
XRA303360 Composite Upright 0° Outboard Toe-In - Graphite
XRA303802 1.2mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar
XRA305137 Steel Solid Axle Driveshaft Adapters - HUDY Spring Steel *Highly recommend*
XRA305242 Composite Drive Shaft Replacement Cap 3.5mm – Orange – Strong (QTY 4)
XRA305351 Aluminum Wheel Hub – Offset “-0.75mm” – Black (QTY 2)
XRA305352 Aluminum Wheel Hub - Offset
“+0.75mm” - Black (QTY 2)
XRA306191 T4 Graphite + Aluminum Fully Adjustable Battery Holder
XRA308264 4S Spring-Set Progressive C=2.5-2.8 (QTY 2)
XRA308276 4S Spring-Set C=2.7 (QTY 2)
XRA308286 4S Spring-Set C=2.6 (QTY 2)

XRA308039 Aluminum Progressive Shock System – Set (QTY 2) *Only for asphalt*

Recent Setups:
Bruno Coelho - IIC 2016 - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Alex Hagberg - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified
Jan Ratheisky - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - 13.5
Chris Adams - Halloween Classic - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Chris Adams - ROAR Region 9 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified
Craig Xavier - US Indoor Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Bruno Coelho - ETS Rd1 Hrotovice - Med Bite Carpet - Modified
Craig Xavier - Stock Wars - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Jan Ratheisky - DHI Cup - Med Bite Carpet - 13.5
Chris Adams - Texas EOS Rd 1 - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Alex Hagberg - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Robbie Dodge - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Jan Ratheisky - TITC - High Bite Asphalt - 13.5
Drew Ellis - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Eric Anderson - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - Modified
Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - 17.5
Dan Hamann - MN State Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5

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Old 02-09-2017, 05:19 PM
  #811  
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Originally Posted by teddymp9
Can i ask how is the setting on the ARS if i want to try run it on a small carpet track with tight corner ? Thanks
Im running it with 2mm spacers on the inside and outside. Also use the same compound arms front and rear. The USA kits come with Graphite arms but the ars arms in the kit are hard not graphite so if your going to use graphite front arms make sure you use graphite ARS rear arms or hard and hard. This is all on a tighter layout on black carpet in USGT.

Last edited by Kevin K; 02-09-2017 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 02-09-2017, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin K
Im running it with 2mm spacers on the inside and outside. Also use the same compound arms front and rear. The USA kits come with Graphite arms but the ars arms in the kit are hard not graphite so if you going to use graphite front arms make sure you use graphite ARS rear arms or hard and hard. This is all on a tighter layout on black carpet in USGT.
thanks for sharing, will try it out.
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Old 02-10-2017, 08:03 PM
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Anyone ever see a setup for any of the other upper bulkhead clamp ball stud mounting holes? I've only ever seen the one hole used...anyone experiment here w longer/shorter camber links? What would be the effects?
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Old 02-11-2017, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by JeffofSpace
Anyone ever see a setup for any of the other upper bulkhead clamp ball stud mounting holes? I've only ever seen the one hole used...anyone experiment here w longer/shorter camber links? What would be the effects?
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ber-links.html
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Old 02-11-2017, 12:15 PM
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Yikes, there's a few inaccuracies in there. For example, it states that a lower roll center will reduce roll, which is the opposite of what happens.
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Old 02-11-2017, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffofSpace
Anyone ever see a setup for any of the other upper bulkhead clamp ball stud mounting holes? I've only ever seen the one hole used...anyone experiment here w longer/shorter camber links? What would be the effects?
When the '15 first came out with the new bulkheads I tried going longer all round, and shorter all round. Both were slower than the standard setup, although I can't really remember how they felt.

I sometimes use a longer front link in the wet for more steering.
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:28 PM
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Anyone using a monster 21.5 or 17.5 what are you using for gearing?
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Old 02-11-2017, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by daleburr
When the '15 first came out with the new bulkheads I tried going longer all round, and shorter all round. Both were slower than the standard setup, although I can't really remember how they felt.

I sometimes use a longer front link in the wet for more steering.
I would think a longer link would reduce the rate of the camber and thus not give you more steering.
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Old 02-11-2017, 07:28 PM
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As I've learned through changes, my feeling as a rule of thumb:longer the link the flatter that end of the car will be, and more "stable". Shorter link, more reactive. In general terms.
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by tbrymer
I would think a longer link would reduce the rate of the camber and thus not give you more steering.
A longer link also causes the rollcentre to stay lower during roll. This seems to be the dominant factor with the front link, as longer always gives me more steering. Probably because the outer front wheel already has plenty of camber due to the castor effect.

Rear link length is less predictable, tried going longer a couple of times, sometimes it gains grip, sometimes loses grip.
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Old 02-12-2017, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by daleburr
A longer link also causes the rollcentre to stay lower during roll. This seems to be the dominant factor with the front link, as longer always gives me more steering. Probably because the outer front wheel already has plenty of camber due to the castor effect.

Rear link length is less predictable, tried going longer a couple of times, sometimes it gains grip, sometimes loses grip.
Hmm, I will have to think about that one The roll center will only change if the suspension compresses? right?
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by tbrymer
Hmm, I will have to think about that one The roll center will only change if the suspension compresses? right?
It moves up and down in heave motion. Typically a double wishbone with shorter upper link the roll Center lowers during compression. And vice versa

But if the car rolls the roll center moves horizontally also. The already mentioned short upper longer lower link car will shift the roll center towards the right during a left corner. By how far depends on ratio of upper and lower link length and angle. So the camber gain has big influence on horizontal movement of the rollcenter during cornering/roll.
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:17 AM
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Hi guys,

What would be the main changes you'd do from the stock carpet setup, which has served me well so far, if you were to go run on a technical super hi-grip carpet track, which will be my case next week as I'm discovering a new track I've never run at?

Me thinks (in order): 2.7 springs (I don't have the 2.9's...), 100CPS stiffer oil, all roll-centers inserts 0.5mm higher (for higher RC), possibly more bump-steer on the spindle... and more wattage, yeah!

Thoughts on the center carbon brace?

Thanks

Paul
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Lonestar
Hi guys,

What would be the main changes you'd do from the stock carpet setup, which has served me well so far, if you were to go run on a technical super hi-grip carpet track, which will be my case next week as I'm discovering a new track I've never run at?

Me thinks (in order): 2.7 springs (I don't have the 2.9's...), 100CPS stiffer oil, all roll-centers inserts 0.5mm higher (for higher RC), possibly more bump-steer on the spindle... and more wattage, yeah!

Thoughts on the center carbon brace?

Thanks

Paul
On high grip we've seen a lot of guys have success with the 2.5-2.8 springs on the front with the 2.6 or 2.7 in the rear. RC we've been keeping around 0, but we're reducing toe to get the car to rotate better. I pretty much always run the carbon center brace, and just shim it up if I want a bit more flex.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:58 AM
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Is everyone running diffs high or low and why?
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