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Xray T4'17

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Old 07-20-2017, 02:09 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: Xray T4'17
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Last edit by: R Dodge
Welcome to the XRAY T4'17 Thread & Wikipost! Here you will find some useful info, tips and tricks as well as setups that are used by several team drivers. This wikipost is a work in progress and should continue to develop over time. Feel free to add anything you feel is useful to the community!

New for 2017:
The T4'17 comes available with either a Graphite chassis, or Aluminum Flex chassis. We recommend the Graphite chassis for starting on asphalt, and the Aluminum Flex for starting on carpet. The 2017 also comes standard with the floating swing rack as an option, and the Composite Graphite arms included. Most of the team prefers the Graphite arms for both asphalt and carpet, though sometimes Hard arms may be ideal for asphalt depending on the conditions. This year's car also comes with the new "In-line Flex Adjustment" which provides many more flex adjustments than in the past allowing you to focus & fine-tune on forward/back flex and side-to-side flex both together & independently. Additionally, the Ackermann has been moved back by 1mm and the spacing of the RF blocks is wider, creating 0.5° less rear toe from previous T4 models.

What's NEW at T4 2017? Convert your '16 to '17 specs with these parts:

- NEW chassis plate (3 options to chose from below)
- NEW Motor holder
- NEW Motor holder plate
- NEW center shaft holder
- NEW Floating Servo Mount

301142 T4'17 CHASSIS 2.2MM GRAPHITE
301143 T4'17 ALU CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6
301144 T4'17 ALU FLEX CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6

302536 ALU STEERING POST FOR FLOATING SERVO SAVER (2)
303066-O T4'17 ALU LAYSHAFT BULKHEAD CLOSED L/R - ORANGE
303067-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT - ORANGE
303068-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - ORANGE
306204-O T4'17 ALU SERVO MOUNT - ORANGE
306233 T4'17 GRAPHITE FLOATING SERVO HOLDER 3.0MM
306530 T4'17 GRAPHITE CHASSIS STIFFENER 3.0MM

Tips & Tricks:

Alex Hagberg's Tech Tip Tuesday articles

How to mount your Protoform LTC-R Body
Setting static camber
How to mount weight on your chassis Part1
How to mount the rear wing on Protoform bodies
Simple troubleshooting guide
How to mount the battery on your chassis
How to glue your front tires for CRC Black carpet with Eric Anderson
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing Exponential and RMode
How to mount weight on your chassis Part2
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing TH-Hold

Team driver Tim Wahl posted some very useful build tips for the T4'16 on Facebook as he worked through building a new kit. These tips will still apply on the current model.

1- Carbon Parts
2-Suspension
3-Solid Axle and Differential
4-Bulkheads & Drivetrain
5-Driveshaft (ECS & CVD)
6-Front & Rear Suspension
7-Tweak
8-Anti-Roll Bar
9-Battery Fix (OPTIONAL)
10-Bumper & Body
11-Shocks
12-Steering

Center Brace:
The manual indicates using a 2mm shim under the center brace when attaching to the chassis plate. The gap is actually 3mm, so a 3mm shim should be used here.

Tuning Note:
On Carpet we have found that adding screws or doubling up the graphite brace will make the car react quicker to steering input, & change direction faster. Raising the graphite brace off of the aluminum bulkheads by placing a shim under it on the front and rear holes will reduce response. Using the tie-rod will reduce initial response to input, but will generate more in-corner traction or 'side-bite'. Using no brace will generate even more of this 'side-bite' but all of this is at the expense of corner speed. Best to use the tie-rod or no brace only in low-traction conditions. Additionally, the center brace increases forward traction, so removing it will potentially increase wheel-spin out of low speed corners.

New Graphite Hubs:
Xray have recently released some additional Graphite hubs for the T4 lineup. The 4° Graphite C-Hub has been out for some time and is known to improve steering on entry, and in general makes the car turn better. This has been the go-to c-hub on asphalt for many on the Xray team, though it is not needed on high bite carpet. The Graphite rear hub tends to make the car more stable, especially on corner entry. We are still working on gathering input on the new Graphite steering block, but for the moment feel that it should improve steering response. All Graphite parts are approximately 1g lighter than the Hard or Medium options.

ARS Tuning courtesy of Ed (TryHard):
If you set the ARS up with no shims under either inside or outside ball positions, it actually adds toe-in under compression, at around 1° at 5.2mm ride height (how much it adds depends how much the car compresses, obviously )

Adding shims reduces the amount added (1mm under one of the links gives about 0.5°), until the link has 2mm worth of shims (1mm either side, or 2mm on one side) makes the ARS neutral. Adding more shims then turns it into reducing toe in under compression.

Whilst that might sound a bit backwards, it's actually not quite as simple as it sounds. By having the links to add toe, you gain forward traction. Also consider as the car rolls, the inside wheel is in negative compression, and the outside in compression. So the inside is toe-ing out, and the outside toe-ing in, so the whole rear is then 'steering' in the direction of the turn. Obviously the inside wheel has a lot less influence than the outside as it's far less loaded, but the effect is still there.

Optional & Tuning Parts to consider:
XRA301196 T4 Graphite Upper Deck 1.6mm V2
XRA302254 Composite Steering Block - Graphite
XRA302334 Aluminum C-Hub Block - Caster
0° - Orange *Only for ARS*
XRA302383 Composite C-Hub Right – 4
° - Graphite (ECS)
XRA302384 Composite C-Hub Left – 4
° - Graphite (ECS)
XRA302711 Brass Front Lower 1-Piece Suspension Holder - Front - FF
XRA302803 1.3mm Front Anti-Roll Bar
XRA303360 Composite Upright 0° Outboard Toe-In - Graphite
XRA303802 1.2mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar
XRA305137 Steel Solid Axle Driveshaft Adapters - HUDY Spring Steel *Highly recommend*
XRA305242 Composite Drive Shaft Replacement Cap 3.5mm – Orange – Strong (QTY 4)
XRA305351 Aluminum Wheel Hub – Offset “-0.75mm” – Black (QTY 2)
XRA305352 Aluminum Wheel Hub - Offset
“+0.75mm” - Black (QTY 2)
XRA306191 T4 Graphite + Aluminum Fully Adjustable Battery Holder
XRA308264 4S Spring-Set Progressive C=2.5-2.8 (QTY 2)
XRA308276 4S Spring-Set C=2.7 (QTY 2)
XRA308286 4S Spring-Set C=2.6 (QTY 2)

XRA308039 Aluminum Progressive Shock System – Set (QTY 2) *Only for asphalt*

Recent Setups:
Bruno Coelho - IIC 2016 - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Alex Hagberg - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified
Jan Ratheisky - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - 13.5
Chris Adams - Halloween Classic - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Chris Adams - ROAR Region 9 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified
Craig Xavier - US Indoor Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Bruno Coelho - ETS Rd1 Hrotovice - Med Bite Carpet - Modified
Craig Xavier - Stock Wars - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Jan Ratheisky - DHI Cup - Med Bite Carpet - 13.5
Chris Adams - Texas EOS Rd 1 - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Alex Hagberg - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Robbie Dodge - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Jan Ratheisky - TITC - High Bite Asphalt - 13.5
Drew Ellis - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Eric Anderson - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - Modified
Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - 17.5
Dan Hamann - MN State Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5

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Old 01-27-2017, 07:46 AM
  #751  
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Originally Posted by BNT
Need more entry and exit steering. I am currently running stock 0 degree hubs. thought 4 degree hubs might improve on that.
The 0 degree hubs are for the rear ARS suspension...
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Old 01-27-2017, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BNT
Need more entry and exit steering. I am currently running stock 0 degree hubs. thought 4 degree hubs might improve on that.
The 0 degree hubs are made for the rear end when running the ARS options. 4 degree blocks are definitely going to give you some more steering. You should post your setup so we can get you moving on the right track.
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Old 01-27-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by wkderf
At the recent Stock Wars race at 360 raceway NY, most of the top drivers in TC were running the solid chassis. The track has the newest CRC Black Carpet with a full subfloor.

I also run the solid chassis at my local track, which also uses the CRC Black Carpet.
What did you notice going from the Flex aluminum chassis to the solid one? I am weighing picking up the solid chassis for 17.5 class running.
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:01 PM
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Default T4'17 fit on '15?

Does the '17 chassis plate fit on the '15? I crashed my '15 chassis and have to be replaced.
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:15 PM
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Looks like Ill be adding that at the 11th hour 🙂

Originally Posted by wkderf
At the recent Stock Wars race at 360 raceway NY, most of the top drivers in TC were running the solid chassis. The track has the newest CRC Black Carpet with a full subfloor.

I also run the solid chassis at my local track, which also uses the CRC Black Carpet.
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jeroendb
Does the '17 chassis plate fit on the '15? I crashed my '15 chassis and have to be replaced.
Yes, but the '17 chassis has the RF suspension mounts moved slightly outwards, reducing toe in. You'll have to run a block that is 0.5 further inward than what you'd run on your '15 in order to achieve roughly the same rear toe angle.
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Clegg
What did you notice going from the Flex aluminum chassis to the solid one? I am weighing picking up the solid chassis for 17.5 class running.
The solid chassis numbs out the car a little bit compared to the carbon or flex and makes it much easier to drive. That's why a lot of guys are starting to run it on high grip black carpet. It just takes the edge out of the car.
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:14 PM
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The issue with adjusting the L/R balance with weights not far from the centerline is that it takes a LOT of extra weight to get to 50/50 L/R (as you load the already heavy side too...)... you want to add it as far away from the centerline as possible so you can get to 50/50 with as little weight as possible. unless you're under the limit of course

With the t4, most standard electronics (read: non lightweight lipos) will get you there "by design"
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Old 01-27-2017, 05:06 PM
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ok guys,

got kind of a newbish question. my car needs more off power steering and better rotation.
I've changed rear diff from 10k to 3k and that helped but it still needs more.

I order the FF brass to add more weight in front, right now I have 10 g weights on each side in the front .

Any obvious things I'm overlooking here?? Right now my back up car is better than this but I want to run this car.

Thanks.

~clueless in Orlando~
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Old 01-27-2017, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JEFFs SC10
ok guys,

got kind of a newbish question. my car needs more off power steering and better rotation.
I've changed rear diff from 10k to 3k and that helped but it still needs more.

I order the FF brass to add more weight in front, right now I have 10 g weights on each side in the front .

Any obvious things I'm overlooking here?? Right now my back up car is better than this but I want to run this car.

Thanks.

~clueless in Orlando~
Some info on current setup and track conditions would certainly help.
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Old 01-27-2017, 07:05 PM
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-2 camber all around
2.5 springs in front 2.6 springs rear
shock position 2 front and rear
400 oil (from kit)
droop 6 front, droop 4.8 rear

camber washers in front 2 inside 2 outside
camber washers in rear 4 outside 0 inside

running flex chassis

brand new black crc carpet, track is very tight and technical.
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Old 01-27-2017, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JEFFs SC10
-2 camber all around
2.5 springs in front 2.6 springs rear
shock position 2 front and rear
400 oil (from kit)
droop 6 front, droop 4.8 rear

camber washers in front 2 inside 2 outside
camber washers in rear 4 outside 0 inside

running flex chassis

brand new black crc carpet, track is very tight and technical.
2.5-2.8 front spring, more shim inside rear camber. 1.4f bar if not there. .4mm more rear droop.

If running '17, run center graphite brace.
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Old 01-27-2017, 08:03 PM
  #763  
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What effect does running that prog spring up front achieve?
I'll put back the 2 mm on the rear shim and put rear droop to 5?

I am running the graphite brace with 2 screws only
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Old 01-27-2017, 08:06 PM
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More mid corner steering with prog spring, go with 4.4-4.6 rear droop.
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Old 01-27-2017, 09:07 PM
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Ok thanks!

What about roll centers on the bottom in the toe blocks?
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