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Xray T4'17

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Old 07-20-2017, 02:09 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Xray T4'17
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Last edit by: R Dodge
Welcome to the XRAY T4'17 Thread & Wikipost! Here you will find some useful info, tips and tricks as well as setups that are used by several team drivers. This wikipost is a work in progress and should continue to develop over time. Feel free to add anything you feel is useful to the community!

New for 2017:
The T4'17 comes available with either a Graphite chassis, or Aluminum Flex chassis. We recommend the Graphite chassis for starting on asphalt, and the Aluminum Flex for starting on carpet. The 2017 also comes standard with the floating swing rack as an option, and the Composite Graphite arms included. Most of the team prefers the Graphite arms for both asphalt and carpet, though sometimes Hard arms may be ideal for asphalt depending on the conditions. This year's car also comes with the new "In-line Flex Adjustment" which provides many more flex adjustments than in the past allowing you to focus & fine-tune on forward/back flex and side-to-side flex both together & independently. Additionally, the Ackermann has been moved back by 1mm and the spacing of the RF blocks is wider, creating 0.5° less rear toe from previous T4 models.

What's NEW at T4 2017? Convert your '16 to '17 specs with these parts:

- NEW chassis plate (3 options to chose from below)
- NEW Motor holder
- NEW Motor holder plate
- NEW center shaft holder
- NEW Floating Servo Mount

301142 T4'17 CHASSIS 2.2MM GRAPHITE
301143 T4'17 ALU CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6
301144 T4'17 ALU FLEX CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6

302536 ALU STEERING POST FOR FLOATING SERVO SAVER (2)
303066-O T4'17 ALU LAYSHAFT BULKHEAD CLOSED L/R - ORANGE
303067-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT - ORANGE
303068-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - ORANGE
306204-O T4'17 ALU SERVO MOUNT - ORANGE
306233 T4'17 GRAPHITE FLOATING SERVO HOLDER 3.0MM
306530 T4'17 GRAPHITE CHASSIS STIFFENER 3.0MM

Tips & Tricks:

Alex Hagberg's Tech Tip Tuesday articles

How to mount your Protoform LTC-R Body
Setting static camber
How to mount weight on your chassis Part1
How to mount the rear wing on Protoform bodies
Simple troubleshooting guide
How to mount the battery on your chassis
How to glue your front tires for CRC Black carpet with Eric Anderson
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing Exponential and RMode
How to mount weight on your chassis Part2
Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing TH-Hold

Team driver Tim Wahl posted some very useful build tips for the T4'16 on Facebook as he worked through building a new kit. These tips will still apply on the current model.

1- Carbon Parts
2-Suspension
3-Solid Axle and Differential
4-Bulkheads & Drivetrain
5-Driveshaft (ECS & CVD)
6-Front & Rear Suspension
7-Tweak
8-Anti-Roll Bar
9-Battery Fix (OPTIONAL)
10-Bumper & Body
11-Shocks
12-Steering

Center Brace:
The manual indicates using a 2mm shim under the center brace when attaching to the chassis plate. The gap is actually 3mm, so a 3mm shim should be used here.

Tuning Note:
On Carpet we have found that adding screws or doubling up the graphite brace will make the car react quicker to steering input, & change direction faster. Raising the graphite brace off of the aluminum bulkheads by placing a shim under it on the front and rear holes will reduce response. Using the tie-rod will reduce initial response to input, but will generate more in-corner traction or 'side-bite'. Using no brace will generate even more of this 'side-bite' but all of this is at the expense of corner speed. Best to use the tie-rod or no brace only in low-traction conditions. Additionally, the center brace increases forward traction, so removing it will potentially increase wheel-spin out of low speed corners.

New Graphite Hubs:
Xray have recently released some additional Graphite hubs for the T4 lineup. The 4° Graphite C-Hub has been out for some time and is known to improve steering on entry, and in general makes the car turn better. This has been the go-to c-hub on asphalt for many on the Xray team, though it is not needed on high bite carpet. The Graphite rear hub tends to make the car more stable, especially on corner entry. We are still working on gathering input on the new Graphite steering block, but for the moment feel that it should improve steering response. All Graphite parts are approximately 1g lighter than the Hard or Medium options.

ARS Tuning courtesy of Ed (TryHard):
If you set the ARS up with no shims under either inside or outside ball positions, it actually adds toe-in under compression, at around 1° at 5.2mm ride height (how much it adds depends how much the car compresses, obviously )

Adding shims reduces the amount added (1mm under one of the links gives about 0.5°), until the link has 2mm worth of shims (1mm either side, or 2mm on one side) makes the ARS neutral. Adding more shims then turns it into reducing toe in under compression.

Whilst that might sound a bit backwards, it's actually not quite as simple as it sounds. By having the links to add toe, you gain forward traction. Also consider as the car rolls, the inside wheel is in negative compression, and the outside in compression. So the inside is toe-ing out, and the outside toe-ing in, so the whole rear is then 'steering' in the direction of the turn. Obviously the inside wheel has a lot less influence than the outside as it's far less loaded, but the effect is still there.

Optional & Tuning Parts to consider:
XRA301196 T4 Graphite Upper Deck 1.6mm V2
XRA302254 Composite Steering Block - Graphite
XRA302334 Aluminum C-Hub Block - Caster
0° - Orange *Only for ARS*
XRA302383 Composite C-Hub Right – 4
° - Graphite (ECS)
XRA302384 Composite C-Hub Left – 4
° - Graphite (ECS)
XRA302711 Brass Front Lower 1-Piece Suspension Holder - Front - FF
XRA302803 1.3mm Front Anti-Roll Bar
XRA303360 Composite Upright 0° Outboard Toe-In - Graphite
XRA303802 1.2mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar
XRA305137 Steel Solid Axle Driveshaft Adapters - HUDY Spring Steel *Highly recommend*
XRA305242 Composite Drive Shaft Replacement Cap 3.5mm – Orange – Strong (QTY 4)
XRA305351 Aluminum Wheel Hub – Offset “-0.75mm” – Black (QTY 2)
XRA305352 Aluminum Wheel Hub - Offset
“+0.75mm” - Black (QTY 2)
XRA306191 T4 Graphite + Aluminum Fully Adjustable Battery Holder
XRA308264 4S Spring-Set Progressive C=2.5-2.8 (QTY 2)
XRA308276 4S Spring-Set C=2.7 (QTY 2)
XRA308286 4S Spring-Set C=2.6 (QTY 2)

XRA308039 Aluminum Progressive Shock System – Set (QTY 2) *Only for asphalt*

Recent Setups:
Bruno Coelho - IIC 2016 - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Alex Hagberg - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified
Jan Ratheisky - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - 13.5
Chris Adams - Halloween Classic - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Chris Adams - ROAR Region 9 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified
Craig Xavier - US Indoor Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Bruno Coelho - ETS Rd1 Hrotovice - Med Bite Carpet - Modified
Craig Xavier - Stock Wars - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Jan Ratheisky - DHI Cup - Med Bite Carpet - 13.5
Chris Adams - Texas EOS Rd 1 - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Alex Hagberg - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Robbie Dodge - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Jan Ratheisky - TITC - High Bite Asphalt - 13.5
Drew Ellis - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified
Eric Anderson - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5
Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - Modified
Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - 17.5
Dan Hamann - MN State Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5

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Old 07-03-2018, 06:39 AM
  #1666  
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Originally Posted by truggy100 View Post
hello guys iam lookning for more information/setup tips when using the a.r.s systeem

first how dow you setup the a.r.s

how do you adjust the toe in whit the adjustable turnbuckle or by the insert ???
what means outbord toe

and how can you check the systeem on the setup bord

thanks
The initial settings are best to start with.

Using the turnbuckle adjusts outboard toe (toe angle changes at the outside of the arm). Changing the arm inserts adjusts inboard toe (toe angle changes at the inside of the arm).

You would check rear toe the same way you would check your front toe on your setup board.

Originally Posted by truggy100 View Post
I read the manual again

and see that when you use the a.r.s systeem you need to fit the c-hub left side on the right-side on the car
and the right side c-hub on the left side on the car THATS CORRECT ???

and you make the a.r.s link 57mm.and you dont adjust any more the link
you can adjust the static toe in whit the eccentric bushing

iam no on the good way ???
please let me now
You would use 0* c-hubs, so they do not know left or right.

As stated above, you can use the arm inserts to adjust toe from the inboard position, then the link to adjust from the outboard. You may find that you like more or less of one or the other. Inboard vs. Outboard will affect how the car transfers weight entering the corner. Also the main point of ARS is that you can adjust the angle of the turnbuckle to affect how the toe changes as the car rolls.

EDIT: Additionally, if you remove 2* of inboard toe and add it back at the outboard point, that would make the rear wheelbase longer.

Hope this helps

Last edited by R Dodge; 07-03-2018 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:09 PM
  #1667  
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Originally Posted by R Dodge View Post
The initial settings are best to start with.

Using the turnbuckle adjusts outboard toe (toe angle changes at the outside of the arm). Changing the arm inserts adjusts inboard toe (toe angle changes at the inside of the arm).

You would check rear toe the same way you would check your front toe on your setup board.



You would use 0* c-hubs, so they do not know left or right.

As stated above, you can use the arm inserts to adjust toe from the inboard position, then the link to adjust from the outboard. You may find that you like more or less of one or the other. Inboard vs. Outboard will affect how the car transfers weight entering the corner. Also the main point of ARS is that you can adjust the angle of the turnbuckle to affect how the toe changes as the car rolls.

EDIT: Additionally, if you remove 2* of inboard toe and add it back at the outboard point, that would make the rear wheelbase longer.

Hope this helps
thanks that makes a lot clear

more outbord give more weight transfer to the back ???
so more stabele when entering the corner

thanks i give it a try again
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Old 07-05-2018, 05:03 AM
  #1668  
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Originally Posted by truggy100 View Post
thanks that makes a lot clear

more outbord give more weight transfer to the back ???
so more stabele when entering the corner

thanks i give it a try again
Usually inboard toe is more stable than outboard toe.
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Old 07-05-2018, 12:49 PM
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thanks R.dodge

verry help full

last qustion do you really need the aluminium C-hub for the a.r.s and grafic arms ????
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Old 07-05-2018, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by truggy100 View Post
thanks R.dodge

verry help full

last qustion do you really need the aluminium C-hub for the a.r.s and grafic arms ????
I've found the graphite arms and aluminum c-hubs with the ARS style suspension increase overall stability.

Those parts will make the car more consistent and easy to drive while using the ARS system. The ARS parts included in the kit are ok, these just make the car feel a little more sure footed when feeding in power. This always results in more consistent lap times for me .

-Korey
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by R Dodge View Post
EDIT: Additionally, if you remove 2* of inboard toe and add it back at the outboard point, that would make the rear wheelbase longer.
Explain? Track width, sure, wheelbase?
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Adamska27 View Post
Explain? Track width, sure, wheelbase?
When you angle the pin at the mounts, it swings the outside of the arm forward making the rear wheelbase shorter. When you straighten the pin it swings the outside of the arm back, making it longer.

Hope that helps.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by R Dodge View Post
When you angle the pin at the mounts, it swings the outside of the arm forward making the rear wheelbase shorter. When you straighten the pin it swings the outside of the arm back, making it longer.

Hope that helps.
This is true and it's about a 1mm swing per degree you change the arm angle so it's a meaningful number. Just changing the rear toe value or front arm sweep will effect your wheelbase.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by R Dodge View Post
When you angle the pin at the mounts, it swings the outside of the arm forward making the rear wheelbase shorter. When you straighten the pin it swings the outside of the arm back, making it longer.

Hope that helps.
Aha, of course, OK, dumb moment lol
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:13 PM
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I believe many of you put ULP shocks onto 2017 or older T4. But have any of you tried ULP front/SLP rear or SLP front/ULP rear? I remember seeing a Pro Xray driver had that setup before.
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:44 AM
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Which way do the progressive sprongs go? The etched numbers facing down or up? Or doesnts it matter
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by crusty View Post
Which way do the progressive sprongs go? The etched numbers facing down or up? Or doesnts it matter
i always put the etching down so you can read the numbers via the gap in the collar.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:40 AM
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Thanks clive. Im not sure on the advantages or disadvantages of the progressive springs but I will give them a shot this weekend
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Old 07-14-2018, 02:23 AM
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sory people

a stupid question but am confused

spring rate which is harder

2.5 or 2.7
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Old 07-14-2018, 02:53 AM
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2.7 is harder
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