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Old 12-29-2005, 12:45 PM   #106
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well the real reason for the cost is the weak US dollar compared to the Euro. and THAT can be traced back to oil companies, the bush family, etc...
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Old 12-29-2005, 12:52 PM   #107
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$110 USD in Indonesia now

equal to 1 month salary of cleaning service people.
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Old 12-29-2005, 12:54 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uneke
I keep seeing comments like this and it frustrates me.

Some people don't have the money to buy a bunch of PT's or even one for that matter.
It's the above argument that always frustrates me. If this is true that they can't afford it, why are they into such an expensive hobby?

For most classes of racing, you are usually looking at a minimum initial investment anywhere from $400 to $800. Plus, you pay $10 (or more) per week to race and add on any equipment that wears out or breaks. So, assume 45 weekends of racing (gotta miss a few due to the family) plus broken and worn out parts and your first year of racing will be well over $1000. So I see a $100 investment in a PT that will easily last the next 5-10 years to be pretty reasonable.

Now, take the seasoned racer who might be complaining about this. They probably have at least one car ($400), a Turbo 35 GFX ($450), high end radio ($250), 6 good battery packs ($70 each / $420) and 3 good motors ($40 each / $120). That alone is is $1640. Now look at their tool box, I'll guess that they easily have $200 worth of various tools. We could then look at the consumables like tires, bodies, motor spray, shock oils and such.... that's easily another $200 (and who knows how much more over the course of a year). Once you add it all up, $100 wouldn't even make a dent in their expenditure.

I'll agree that the cost of the PT is high, but not to the point that I think it is worth complaining about.
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Old 12-29-2005, 01:10 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uneke
I keep seeing comments like this and it frustrates me.

Some people don't have the money to buy a bunch of PT's or even one for that matter. So what if its a one time purchase its still expensive. If i'm racing on a limited budget i would want to spend the money on the things that help me go faster. Right now we are getting to the point where we have no choice with so many clubs going to PT's. I personally love them, but they do cost a lot of money.
Again, if you cannot afford to play, then don't. It's kinda like racing real cars and then complaing by saying "oh man, now I have to buy gas to make the car run?"

If the cost is so hard to swallow then do not buy one and do not race. Or better yet, the purchase of and the use of an AMB transponder WILL HELP YOU BECOME FASTER THAN ANYTHING ELSE YOU VOULD BUY FOR YOUR CAR. So if you want to buy the go fast stuff, then the first thing on your list will be an AMB.
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Old 12-29-2005, 01:11 PM   #110
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Ask any person who has come from any other form of racing and 9 times out of 10 they will tell you r/c is the least expensive. (i'm sure there is some form of racing that may be cheaper..)

There are cheaper (less expensive, simpler and faster if speed is your thing) forms of r/c racing.
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Old 12-29-2005, 01:16 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clegg
AMB transponders are NOT a one time investment. Their design lends the wires to break after a period of use ( a couple years) meaning that once they break.. you need to buy another one since AMB wont replace that small device thats worth more than its weight in gold.

If they offered repair or replacement services/costs then I would be more understanding... but since the only replacement is $80 - $100.00 to buy a new one... screw that.
Well yeah if you let your dog chew on them or if you throw them in a shreader!!

I have had the same 2 AMB Transponders since they first became available and they are in the same exact condition as the day o bought them.

I am sure though that if you do not secure the extra slack of wire, allowing it to drag on the alphalt track or allow the excess wire to get caught in between the spur and pinion as you run the wire will get frayed and eventually fall off but I guess that's part of the plot in making you buy a transponder every 3 months...DARN AMB for making the wire so darn long!
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Old 12-29-2005, 01:25 PM   #112
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Supposedly Kyosho is releasing a PT that is encoded in some type of paper thin decal. Not sure if it will be wireless (like the security sickers on items found in stores), and I don't know the price details either, but maybe someone who's seen it in the hobby expos in Japan can enlighten us.

But if someone did create a software program packaged with a ton of these "disposable" PT's, it may be a cheaper alternative for track owners and racers. Now if I could only get a hold of AMB's secret codes, I'd be doing business in Mexico ASAP. And you guys would be buying them from me for about $5, + $3 for wiring + shipping. Hmmmm...
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Old 12-29-2005, 01:42 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMSRacing
Lets compare apples to apples. And if your going to try to make a comparison how about using a graphics card that isn't made by some company that has purchased the rights to used the Radeon name. They are constantly doing this with video cards and there is a ton of competition for them. 99% of the time the knock off brands performance suck because they do not use quality components. Everyone might be happy for it because they only paid a $100... but when compared to other cards and their performance side by side - they dont stand a chance.

How about we compare a TC4 RTR and a Corally RDX next??

First off...you have zero clue what you're talking about. There is no such thing as a "knock-off" computer product. If a company is making an ATI or NVIDIA based graphics card, they're doing it with the blessing of those parent companies. Obviously, because only nvidia or ATI can provide the main GPU chips to those 2nd tier vendors. Also, all products MUST perform at least as fast as either of the parent companies designs , otherwise they wouldn't be what they're branded as.


Back to the point. I displayed a graphics card to illustrate what $100.00 of electronics should look like. The "guts" that make up the AMB PT are about 1/16th the expense and mass of what is required to make that $100.00 graphics card. Also the AMB PT is so simple it's "guts" should be extremely cheap. I'm talking abject electronic design here.

The ONLY reason AMB PTs cost so much is because AMB is the "standard" worldwide. If you want to be compatible you have to pay their extortion fee. Furthermore, I highly doubt any company would be able to legally manufacture a "clone" that would work with an AMB lap-counting system since doing so would violate AMB's intellectual property rights. Just imagine if some company made a "cheaper" Pentium 4 that used Intel's Socket 775 interface.

You simply can't legally create knock-off products that use another companies system, design, parts, etc.

The only thing that can be done is create a whole new system. Lap-counting and transponders. If a company can create a $500.00 lap-counting system and sell $10/20 transponders to function with it, the R/C community would ditch AMB in a heartbeat.
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Old 12-29-2005, 01:46 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumper1
Soviet,

Glad to hear it's so easy! When's your new system going to hit the market?


It's easy for a multi-million dollar company to mass produce smartass...
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Old 12-29-2005, 01:53 PM   #115
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I see dollar amounts like 100+ being thrown around for a personal transponder. You can buy PTs direct from AMB for $89.00 with FREE shipping and NO taxes. You can also buy 10 for $760.00. Get a few friends together and buy 10 of them. The price is still not cheap but if your paying $100.00 plus from a LHS you should do a little research.
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Old 12-29-2005, 01:59 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotpez
It's the above argument that always frustrates me. If this is true that they can't afford it, why are they into such an expensive hobby?

For most classes of racing, you are usually looking at a minimum initial investment anywhere from $400 to $800. Plus, you pay $10 (or more) per week to race and add on any equipment that wears out or breaks. So, assume 45 weekends of racing (gotta miss a few due to the family) plus broken and worn out parts and your first year of racing will be well over $1000. So I see a $100 investment in a PT that will easily last the next 5-10 years to be pretty reasonable.

Now, take the seasoned racer who might be complaining about this. They probably have at least one car ($400), a Turbo 35 GFX ($450), high end radio ($250), 6 good battery packs ($70 each / $420) and 3 good motors ($40 each / $120). That alone is is $1640. Now look at their tool box, I'll guess that they easily have $200 worth of various tools. We could then look at the consumables like tires, bodies, motor spray, shock oils and such.... that's easily another $200 (and who knows how much more over the course of a year). Once you add it all up, $100 wouldn't even make a dent in their expenditure.

I'll agree that the cost of the PT is high, but not to the point that I think it is worth complaining about.
So your saying if a person has to race on a budget then they shouldn't race at all?
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Old 12-29-2005, 02:04 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet
First off...you have zero clue what you're talking about. There is no such thing as a "knock-off" computer product. If a company is making an ATI or NVIDIA based graphics card, they're doing it with the blessing of those parent companies. Obviously, because only nvidia or ATI can provide the main GPU chips to those 2nd tier vendors. Also, all products MUST perform at least as fast as either of the parent companies designs , otherwise they wouldn't be what they're branded as.
Quite the contrary my friend.

You are correct that they have bought the rights to the game and the GPU. However - that does not mean the rest of the board is up to snuff. The GPU does not do all of the work my ill-informed friend.

Before I go into any detail - do yourself a favor before you make yourself out to be any more brainless on this subject. Go do some research about graphics cards. Compare say - a Nvidia 6800 from ohhh... say eVGA or Asus. And then one from the bargain basement of whatever cheapest card you can find in the 6800 line up. IT WILL NOT PREFORM THE SAME. The core is not neccessarily running at the same speed, nor is the memory of the same type or running at the same speed. Not to mention the circuit board may not be of the same quality and therefore resulting in over crappy performance.

I appreciate your amusing rebutal - but please try again.
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Old 12-29-2005, 02:06 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koabich
Again, if you cannot afford to play, then don't. It's kinda like racing real cars and then complaing by saying "oh man, now I have to buy gas to make the car run?"

If the cost is so hard to swallow then do not buy one and do not race. Or better yet, the purchase of and the use of an AMB transponder WILL HELP YOU BECOME FASTER THAN ANYTHING ELSE YOU VOULD BUY FOR YOUR CAR. So if you want to buy the go fast stuff, then the first thing on your list will be an AMB.
I understand that this is your opinion, but I couldn't disagree more. This is a hobby were everyone wants to have fun. If there is a way to cut cost to keep as many people in the hobby as possible then it should be done. Its attitudes like what you are displaying which turns people away. "If you don't have the money then don't play".

Why shouldn't we have conversations about making things more affordable in the hobby?
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Old 12-29-2005, 02:16 PM   #119
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Seems to me that if we're looking to make the hobby more affordable - there are a lot better places to start then a PT.

Lets think about this. Even if you have HORRIBLE luck and buy 1 every 2 years, thats $40 a year. Ok... BRAND NEW PT is now $40... works great, the world is now a better place.

What have you saved given the same consuming rate of the PT? $20/year.

Now - if you want to make the racing world a more affordable place. Why not go to the people who make the rules and get some restrictions on the way chassis are introduced - a really spec class to put emphasis on the driver.. I dunno.. something.

THAT has the potential to create some savings for the people who wish to take advantage of it.

Racing is money. Period. Its not a negative attitude - heck I would love it if everything we needed could be cut in half price wise. I just think this random bash on AMB for charging $80 for something that is very useful, and does not lose its value is rather pointless.
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Old 12-29-2005, 02:20 PM   #120
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great example....

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=95488

Not even 30 minutes and 2 guys want to eat it up for $75!!
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