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Old 12-29-2005, 03:26 AM   #76
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Anyone who wants to defend AMB..look at this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102537


Thats a brand-new mid-range graphics card for $95.00. So someone here is gonna tell me that AMB is justified charging the same amount for a product using 1/16th the electronic components and materials??? All the AMB does is transmit a signal on a specific frequency with a hard-coded number off of a flash-rom chip. VERY cheap stuff.

We're simply being gouged and thats all there is to it. Then again...this IS the hobby where some idiot will buy the Team Much More power supply for $240.00 and it's the same as the Radio Shack 25amp unit for $99.99.

Folks throughout the hobby habitually overpay for products:

Deans "Racing solder" $4.99 for 4 ounces / Kester 60/40 silver $12.00 for a GIANT roll

Trinity bushing oil in dropper bottle $6.99 2xfl. ounces/ Mobil 1 $2.99 Quart


Actually..the most notorious area in R/C where we get gouged is the P.O.L. area (Petroleum. Oil. Lubricants.) as most R/C P.O.L. products are simply repackaged standard automotive / electronic products. Of course as far as hardware is concerned, you should NEVER buy an R/C branded power supply either.


Summary...AMB can screw off. Hopefully 50-Cent RF-ID tags and a cheaper lap counting system will replace them someday.
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Old 12-29-2005, 04:00 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
This is an ignorant statement. First, you have absolutely no idea how much the parts that make a transponder cost. Second, you have no idea how much the company has tied up in development costs and costs just to begin production (molds, etc).

Add these to the cost of operating a business (personnel, insurance, advertising, promotion, customer service, etc.) and you will most likely find that the cost of the parts that make the transponder is a minimal portion of the cost of producing it.

Your example is like saying that you can get a watermelon seed for nothing but the supermarkets charge you $5 for a ready to eat watemrelon.

I would also be willing to bet your $100.00 tennis shoes have less that $5.00 worth of materials. And your latest $20.00 cotton t-shirt has about $0.25 worth of cotton.
AMB is able to charge customer high price because AMB has patent and copyrights. When 17yr exclusive patent is expired the price will go down.

To fight antitrust scheme, some companies out there should make open source transponder. One standard adopted by many transponder manufacturers. Just like Linux vs Microsoft.

C'mon Rick... you are a good person..... you are public figure in RC scenes.
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Old 12-29-2005, 04:35 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet
Anyone who wants to defend AMB..look at this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102537


Thats a brand-new mid-range graphics card for $95.00. So someone here is gonna tell me that AMB is justified charging the same amount for a product using 1/16th the electronic components and materials??? All the AMB does is transmit a signal on a specific frequency with a hard-coded number off of a flash-rom chip. VERY cheap stuff.

We're simply being gouged and thats all there is to it. Then again...this IS the hobby where some idiot will buy the Team Much More power supply for $240.00 and it's the same as the Radio Shack 25amp unit for $99.99.

Folks throughout the hobby habitually overpay for products:

Deans "Racing solder" $4.99 for 4 ounces / Kester 60/40 silver $12.00 for a GIANT roll

Trinity bushing oil in dropper bottle $6.99 2xfl. ounces/ Mobil 1 $2.99 Quart


Actually..the most notorious area in R/C where we get gouged is the P.O.L. area (Petroleum. Oil. Lubricants.) as most R/C P.O.L. products are simply repackaged standard automotive / electronic products. Of course as far as hardware is concerned, you should NEVER buy an R/C branded power supply either.


Summary...AMB can screw off. Hopefully 50-Cent RF-ID tags and a cheaper lap counting system will replace them someday.
Lets compare apples to apples. And if your going to try to make a comparison how about using a graphics card that isn't made by some company that has purchased the rights to used the Radeon name. They are constantly doing this with video cards and there is a ton of competition for them. 99% of the time the knock off brands performance suck because they do not use quality components. Everyone might be happy for it because they only paid a $100... but when compared to other cards and their performance side by side - they dont stand a chance.

How about we compare a TC4 RTR and a Corally RDX next??
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Old 12-29-2005, 05:29 AM   #79
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As far as I know they don't just only use the Radeon name but they actually use an ATI Radeon GPU and build the card around it.

All I can say is that if you don't want to pay $100 for an AMB pt, then you should go and find a way to make an alternative and take AMB head on. Make it better and make it cheaper. If it is really that simple to make I don't see why others haven't already done so. Besides you can't really complain to a company when the majority of people are willing to pay $100 for what might have taken only $5 to make. What they're doing is not illegal by the way since they don't have any real competition in the market. It would be illegal if they buy out another PT maker to take them out of the market as competition.
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Old 12-29-2005, 05:56 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by is300zx
All I can say is that if you don't want to pay $100 for an AMB pt, then you should go and find a way to make an alternative and take AMB head on. Make it better and make it cheaper. If it is really that simple to make I don't see why others haven't already done so.
You said it! There's nothing stopping anyone else from coming out with a competing product. Actually KO had something several years ago that used the RF noise from a car's receiver (or something like that) to act as PTs, but AMB has the market saturation (can we say Windows?) to not worry about anything.

I am glad that I got my PTs (used to have 3, sold 1) early when they were about 60-65 or so.

I do think the RFID tag idea would be sweet though - make the hardware compatible with existing race control software and we could possibly have a true $5 solution for transponders
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Old 12-29-2005, 07:09 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet

Summary...AMB can screw off. Hopefully 50-Cent RF-ID tags and a cheaper lap counting system will replace them someday.
That would be very nice, no doubt. But there's the rub. How long do we wait for that "someday" to arrive?
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Old 12-29-2005, 09:45 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw7576
AMB is able to charge customer high price because AMB has patent and copyrights. When 17yr exclusive patent is expired the price will go down.

To fight antitrust scheme, some companies out there should make open source transponder. One standard adopted by many transponder manufacturers. Just like Linux vs Microsoft.

C'mon Rick... you are a good person..... you are public figure in RC scenes.
Excellent point! The legal costs to obtain worldwide patents and copyrights are extremely expensive. Plus do not forget about the costs to defend them.

These are simply costs associated with developing and producing a unique product, which end up being paid for by the end user.
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Old 12-29-2005, 09:50 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank McKinney
I do think the RFID tag idea would be sweet though - make the hardware compatible with existing race control software and we could possibly have a true $5 solution for transponders
Its been tested. (BTW hey frank, I emailed you all the time back in the HPI Nitro RS4 days ) Unfortunately there is too much RF noise in R/C applications to make RFID's work effectively as of now.

I read about some guys testing it and the motors and ESC's make so much electrical noise that it makes reading a passive RFID under an energized loop iffy. Also they saw glitching under the loop due to it being a big energized antenna.
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Old 12-29-2005, 10:11 AM   #84
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I have no issue with AMB protecting their "intellectual property" Someone stated that tracks wouldn't purchase a separate "add-on" lap counting system to accomodate different transponders, and I argue that if it could be done for a reasonable amount of money, a ton of clubs and tracks would. It opens your customer base somewhat, and it's a whole lot easier to tell teh guy who just dropped $450 or so bucks on an RTR monster truck that it'll cost him $45 bucks to buy a "required" transponder than $90 just to get to race. Have you guys really thought about the whole "telemetry" deal with 2.4ghz systems. It's a transceiver with it's own GUID. Talk about killer way to do a personal transponder! I'm willing to bet that if Spektrum came up with software and a decoder to work alongside existing AMB and race mangement software nobody on here would be arguing about the commercial feasibility of a "band-aid" system.

Nimble Motorsports is already talking about this kinda stuff on their website.
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Old 12-29-2005, 10:41 AM   #85
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The way I see it for the people who think AMD's are too expensive. Dont buy it. Then show up to the track with out a AMB pt. Race and dont get scored. I see the AMB as a one time investment. What about all the disposable item you buy every week to race. broken parts, tires, motor cleaner, brushes, bodies the list goes on and on. You get the point?
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Old 12-29-2005, 10:43 AM   #86
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I think the Transponders are too expensive remember when you could buy one for 60.00 dollars now it is over 100.00. I have 4 different cars and all the tracks I race at use the personal system and if you don't have one they charge you 5.00 dollars to use theirs, on top of race fees. RIPOFF! I don't care what anyone says don't bite the hand that feeds! Hurry Up Kyosho we need a new system Thanks I needed to get that out, now I have to buy another transponder
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Old 12-29-2005, 10:49 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunnelhead
The way I see it for the people who think AMD's are too expensive. Dont buy it. Then show up to the track with out a AMB pt. Race and dont get scored. I see the AMB as a one time investment. What about all the disposable item you buy every week to race. broken parts, tires, motor cleaner, brushes, bodies the list goes on and on. You get the point?
I keep seeing comments like this and it frustrates me.

Some people don't have the money to buy a bunch of PT's or even one for that matter. So what if its a one time purchase its still expensive. If i'm racing on a limited budget i would want to spend the money on the things that help me go faster. Right now we are getting to the point where we have no choice with so many clubs going to PT's. I personally love them, but they do cost a lot of money.
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Old 12-29-2005, 10:53 AM   #88
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AMB transponders are NOT a one time investment. Their design lends the wires to break after a period of use ( a couple years) meaning that once they break.. you need to buy another one since AMB wont replace that small device thats worth more than its weight in gold.

If they offered repair or replacement services/costs then I would be more understanding... but since the only replacement is $80 - $100.00 to buy a new one... screw that.
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Old 12-29-2005, 10:56 AM   #89
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AMB does not rely on RC customer as their primary customer, they are a company that does real car racing timing system. They just use their design onto the RC area.......and somehow, they did a good job on that.

To have someone deisgn a newer, better, smaller, faster, and cheaper system is probably very easy, simply computer programming and some electricial board.....and done, However, 1 track probably just need 1 system, each state has may be 3-5 tracks average (I really don't know, just a guess, may be more or less...) To beat down AMB, this company must convince the whole world to use his system over AMB otherwise no international race will use your system..........Guess how many system they have to sell in order to cover all the R&D, rent, developing, engineer fee...etc? At the end, if the system sales is good....they WILL eventually RAISE the price, JUST LIKE AMB does........

A Motorola Razor phone....a high end phone what worth like $200 on ebay now, how come provider will give it out for FREE when you signed up...? Because they can make up the lose from your phone bill.........

$100 for a PT, I think it is still a acceptable price.......a average used one is about $65-75....$25 lose for over YEARS of using is cheaper then RENT. I brought mine way cheaper then $100 and I think if I sell them all now, I can make money actually..........the best investment I had ever did on RC items.
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Old 12-29-2005, 10:59 AM   #90
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They fixed mine for 45 dollars
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