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Old 12-31-2005, 02:19 PM   #196
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Lightbulb New Idea for tracks!!!!!

Hey, lets take a break a minute. I just thought of an idea for at least this portion of the hobby to make it easier to swallow. Many tracks (especially newer ones that havent the resources to purchase a full system) will only have PT for rental for the non equipped versus the old days the public transponder was in the racing cost.

Why not especially for the new racers use this rental as really a investment system that builds toward the purchase of a new one? Meaning this rental is really a downpayament for their own PT. The track owner adds the amount each week for the user who "rented" the transponder, and after hitting the retail amount, gives it to the racer. If the new racer stops coming before that, then the track keeps the money from the rental as their own.

This would help alleviate a few things for the new racers:
-Another $80 purchase right away just to race.
-Having to spend anywhere from 5-10$ a week extra just for a rental without any return. They now know if they continue to race, they will eventually earn rights to their own PT

This benefits the track also as now the racer has more incentive to keep racing at your particular track to earn that PT. It also helps build a trust in your track. I mean really, are you that strapped for cash that you cant see the long term investment in allowing them to use this rental as an account towards their own?

Hmm.. I going to start a separate thread for this.

EDIT: Here it is.
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Old 12-31-2005, 02:23 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clegg
The thing I dont understand is that people in here are actually defending AMB. What have they ever done for you other than take your money?
They make my race day more enjoyable and more relaxed (I don't have to chase after somebody that forgot to take the transponder out of their car). "...Who's got blue #2???..." and then asking the last 4 guys that had it. I don't miss that one iota.

Ever been a part of this kind of conversation? "..<from the race director>...Did you have the #5 transponder in your car? That thing hasn't been counting well for some reason, looks as though it missed a few of your laps..." Me to the race director "...Is that the one with the 1/4" saw marks in it that somebody mounted wrong in their gas car and was nearly ruined by the spur gear?..." I have. (It was with a car I was testing, and didn't have a PT in it... it does now).

I'm thinking I personally have about 12 PT's and have never had one missed lap in any car. Not one time, not ever. That's a result I appreciate (thank you AMB).

They also provide me with the one tangible result for all my efforts, lap times. And in the case of the PT, they also provide me with a performance advantage over those that don't have one because of weight.

They (AMB) are the only company that has an effective solution for our sport, and they support us. That's what they've done for me.
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Old 12-31-2005, 03:06 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by t4ftracer
This is only a problem when running 4 cells, correct? (1/12th) I run GT7's and QC2's, but I just bought pt's for all my vehicles and am now concerned about this. I race off-road 1/10 truck & buggy (6 cells obviously), so is this something I need to address? Thanks in advnce for any help!
It to do with pot luck; the factory racers get "blueprinted" speed controllers of lrp. While the customers get qc2 speedcontrollers that have variance in closeness to the blueprint of the original design, trust me the factory drivers qc2 don't just come out of the box like ours. So some qc2 you won't have a problem others will as the bec output is rated to 5.8v and not 6v, novaks you may have issue you may not have as well I remeber racers having missed laps with the gt7's but you have to try it to see. yes this was happening with 6cell batterys that were 6 months old. You won't notice it on fresh batts so much.

Used a ko pro comp on the said batts never misses a lap? Same car motor Pt position everthing. After much dicussion with folk that have experience the said problem and tried eliminating it it was down to the quality of the bec output and the age of the batterys.

Sorry for the longish post but i am telling it how I see it.
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Old 12-31-2005, 03:26 PM   #199
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Not picking on anybody, just generic comments.

Also, sorry for hijacking the thread.... The thread has about 4 thoughts in it, so I hope I'm not disrupting to many people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imjonah
Teen: Mister, those cars are really cool. What would I have to do to race with you guys.

RC Racer: Listen Kid, you really want to spend all day Sunday here so you can race for 20 minutes?
You want to spend another 8 or 10 hours a week working on your car?
You got a grand to spend?
You want to go through the next 2 years learning about these cars?
You want to race in the stock class against guys who been racing for the last 15 years?
I've never one time heard anybody in a club talk this way. I've raced all over the country, as have a lot of you. Not one time. I've seen people throw their equipment in anger, and start fights, once saw a parent lay a beat down on his kid (15 years ago), but never heard anybody talk somebody out of the sport. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It just means I've never heard it. Additionally most tracks and clubs have a rookie or novice class. The most serious guys get a little tired of being hacked by the rookies and want to go faster and move on. Why would anybody tell a person they need a $1000 to start the hobby? That is simply not true.

I am pretty convinced, that I could take a $240 TC4 RTR with $20 batterys and a $40 charger and obliterate the field in the sportsman class at our club. Total investment, a little over $300 (and that's BRAND NEW EQUIPMENT). Every club is brimming with guys selling last years car. A used, LOADED TC3 can be found at any club meeting for about $125. Same with a XXXS. Nothing wrong with either of these cars. and the fast guys in any club could mop the floor with 85% of the guys in their club with this equipment. Additionally, and usually the guy selling the car ends up mentoring the guy that bought it, here's how to set it up, this is what I did here, etc.

Also, the time you spend with your hobby is why it's called a hobby, it's something to do, and it's fun. If it's not fun, and in the case of your example, a downer to the guy discussing it, he should move on, sounds as though he's not having fun. He should sell his stuff to the kid for $300 and let the new guy have some fun. The new guy is also the most motivated. He talks to his friends, helps work on the track, is first to go corner marshal, and helps on the clubs website, and eventually ends up president of the club.

Money, for the most part is NEVER what keeps people from doing something. If you want to do it bad enough, you will find a way to do it. We can barely scrape together 40 guys for a race here. A racing sport/hobby that can be done for under $400, offers thrills and entertainment, and the whole family can enjoy it. I went to a local motocross event (same area)... 472 entries, not 40, and a rock stock new bike will set you back $6000, and I saw some 4-wheelers that had to be modified to the $15-$20k range. Whole families, kids, mom's and dad's, got the barbecue going, hanging out and having fun. How is it that they can get so many more people to spend 20-50 times more money?

It's because they are having fun.


Quote:
Teen: It looks like fun is it really that difficult and expensive?

RC Racer: Well why do you think you only see 2 people your age here and they are both here with their dads?

Teen: I see what you mean
Absolutely not true. It's NEVER been easier to get into RC racing. You don't even have to assemble the car anymore if you're not interested. RTR TC4 is a prime example at $250 (assembled, motor, ESC, radio, PAINTED, ready to go).

The reason the parents are there, is because they are trying to spend some quality time with their kids. ALSO, the reason the parents are there is because somebody has to give kids a ride... I've got a mental image of a 12 year old kid with a 30 pound pitbox and a car walking 20 miles to the track... ...lol...

Quote:
RC Racer: Listen kid if we wanted more people to participate, you think we would make it so difficult and expensive to get started? You think the cars would be so fragile? You think we would make people spend an hour working on their car for every minute racing?
$300 to get a good race car moving on the track. That's not expensive given the opportunity. If the kid doesn't buy the car, you'll see him and his buddies the very next weekend stuffing a 48" subwoofer in the back of his car, that not surprisingly cost more than the vehicle itself is worth. Of course he had to take his paintball stuff and ipod out of the car to make room for the subwoofer. People will spend their money where they think they will have the most fun. I wouldn't race with the adult in your scenario, he sounds like a bum, and isn't much fun.

I will add that most kids with a job have more money than you think. A 14 year old kid working for $6 an hour (with every other Sunday off to race), working 4 hours after school, and 8 hours on weekend days, gross's about $900 a month. He has no rent, no bills, no children (hopefully), no health insurance, none of things that weigh heavily on his parents. Likely not paying for his computer, or his web connection either. Kids have the money, don't fool yourself. Case in point, walk around bestbuy and circuit city and see who's spending the money.

Quote:
Teen: I see well maybe in the future when I get a good paying job.

RC Racer: Future? They are closing this track at the end of the season

Teen: Why they closing?

RC Racer: I guess because not enough young guys like you wanting to participate.

Teen: Ahh,

RC Racer: Yeah, it’s a real shame.
Interestingly enough, the kid wanted to race, the racer talked him out of it. Why would the racer do that? I don't think he was having much fun. In your scenario the hobby was just fine, new interest was there, a bitter, old, curmudgeon talked him out of it. That's a different problem entirely.

to recap the motocross example... 472 riders, a new bike $6000 (plus the VERY real threat of physical and life altering injury). Sport is alive and well.

RC car entry level setup. $300-$400 no risk of physical injury and still get to race, have fun and hang with your buddies, children, family. Only 40 guys at the track.


It's never about the money folks (picking a hobby). If it were, nothing, and I mean NOTHING that cost over $300 would ever sell. Do you NEED a $6500 television? A $6000 dirt bike, Yet they sell. Ever see a set of $2500 wheels on a $500 Vehicle? How's about A $1000 for paintball gun... What about a 5" diameter $400 stainless steel and carbon fiber exhaust tip on a beat up $250 Honda Civic? (because he needs the extra exhaust volume to compensate for when he turns up the $2000 car stereo). Why didn't that guy buy an RC car? Why indeed.
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Last edited by Bob-Stormer; 12-31-2005 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 12-31-2005, 03:58 PM   #200
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rc racing has differant levels of racing to remember you dont have to have all the bling bling to have fun. although some think that is what you need to win races and spending 1000 will not win races. and telling potential new comers that is whats hurting this hobby not the price of a PT.

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Old 12-31-2005, 05:15 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
It's never about the money folks (picking a hobby). If it were, nothing, and I mean NOTHING that cost over $300 would ever sell. Do you NEED a $6500 television? A $6000 dirt bike, Yet they sell. Ever see a set of $2500 wheels on a $500 Vehicle? How's about A $1000 for paintball gun... What about a 5" diameter $400 stainless steel and carbon fiber exhaust tip on a beat up $250 Honda Civic? (because he needs the extra exhaust volume to compensate for when he turns up the $2000 car stereo). Why didn't that guy buy an RC car? Why indeed.
Thats an interesting point.
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Old 12-31-2005, 05:25 PM   #202
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If your cheap and think about how much everything costs, you will never have fun.
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Old 12-31-2005, 05:28 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Melton
There are really only two products in this hobby that I feel have been worth every penny spent.

PT (even though I bought when they were $50)
Spektrum

The reason I like them so much isn't because they gained me something in speed or performance but made racing that much more ENJOYABLE at the track. No more waiting for someone to return a transponder or waiting in tech to put one in, taking it out, etc. And the fact that I never go to a freq. board and can set trim/toe in pits whenever I choose makes racing more hassle free. Just my opinions.
These are my thoughts also, I could not have said it better.
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Old 12-31-2005, 06:06 PM   #204
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I don't think anyone is questioning the convenience factor...It's the price of that convenience. I think if it was in direct relation to that, a Spektrum system would sell for $500...and you know we'd still buy it. That doesn't make it right to charge whatever you want to. People can spew the free enterprise crap all they want... but that mentality is just a small reason as to why this world is becoming more and more of a sh*thole. Maybe if companies etc., would actually be more worried about how to make the absolute best product for a reasonable price then things might be a little better! Remember when companies used to take pride in offering a honest value. Not "hey, I think they will buy this lump of dog crap for $50..no wait, I bet they would pay $100"!!!
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Old 12-31-2005, 06:39 PM   #205
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Wow, good for you. I don't really think we need to know how much you spend, nor does it matter. It's your choice to spend that kind of money. And that type of statement is why we have less and less young kids starting up racing. If they came to you and asked what it cost to start racing, I'd be scared of the answer. I think Stormer said it best when he said a good driver could wipe up the track with a $300 setup.I think if you told them that, they would get excited about our sport. Not try to impress them with the amount you spend on your setup. Maybe, we should step back and try to lead by example. Maybe if we gave the newbies a little more positive outlook, then they'd be more interested.
Look, this isn't all about how much you or I or anyone else can spend on RC. It's about the principal. Heck if I added my reciepts up over the last 10 years, I'm sure I could buy myself a pretty nice new car. But I certainly don't feel that it's necessary to spend that much. I am always on the lookout for a good deal. And my business goes to the best value I can find.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntro75
I usually spend at the very least 1500.00-2 thousand dollars every season on my race rig, thats the buggy, engine, exhaust, electronics, bla-bla-bla do think I give a crap about a 80 dollar transponder that I only have to buy once? If people are that distraught over an 80 dollar p/s then they need to get into building dollhouses or something, for crying out loud our hobby is expensive people.I do not like it anymore than you believe me i would love it if a p/s was only 45 bucks, but guess what it's not and it probly never will be so go into the kitchen, and fix yourself a nice big plate of shut the [email protected] up. If you go to the dodge dealership to buy a neon and see the viper but do not have the money to buy it are you going to cry to the dealership it should only cost you what the sticker price is on the neon?Welcome to the really real world, guess what....IT SUCKS.
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Old 12-31-2005, 08:15 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmccormick
rc racing has differant levels of racing to remember you dont have to have all the bling bling to have fun. although some think that is what you need to win races and spending 1000 will not win races. and telling potential new comers that is whats hurting this hobby not the price of a PT.
You changed your original post. I liked the racing analogy better.

You should never be afraid to speak your mind.

It was a good observation.
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Old 12-31-2005, 08:27 PM   #207
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It's the ignorant acceptance of paying higher prices that feeds the R/C market, or any other for that matter, and that is just a damn stupid statement to say if you cant afford it do something else!!! high prices dont do anyone any good accept the ones selling at the high prices, and they will soon be doomed, to someone else selling the same thing for less!!!
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Old 12-31-2005, 08:53 PM   #208
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People are getting kind of off topic here. I agree with the guy who compared ESCs to PTs, there are so many things that are much more advanced that are comparable in price. It doesnt matter if you only have to buy it one time, you only have to buy a reciever or radio one time and they're just as prone to breaking or wearing out as a PT. A reciever does alot more than a PT and a good reciever is about $80. All a pt does is send out one signal, that's all, you turn on the power and it starts sending out a signal, that gets picked up when it passes the wire. A good reciever can bind to a modual and lock on to an open frequency like specktrum, or decode a PCM signal (I dont really know exactly how it works, whether is decodes or finds the frequency with something special on it, so dont bother me about that.) Recievers also have memory in that that each time you run recieves the failsafe settings from the transmitter and holds on to them for the run. If PTs were still $50 to $60 I'd probably buy one. I dont know how they work, but they're probably not that complex. Some other company should really start making them. At $50 or $60 they could probably make a pretty good profit, and as long as they work as well as the AMBs, the sales would pretty much shift over. I guess competition would be a problem and they might have to lower their prices to stay on top, but with AMB having to charge more because of the currency conversion, they could only lower the prices to a certain point.
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Old 12-31-2005, 09:24 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
ALSO, the reason the parents are there is because somebody has to give kids a ride... I've got a mental image of a 12 year old kid with a 30 pound pitbox and a car walking 20 miles to the track...
I'm 16...been racing for 2 and a half years and take the trolley for an hour where I transer to a bus, which arrives 1/4 mile from the track. Think I'm kidding? I wish I was....LOL
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Old 12-31-2005, 09:27 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntro75
Blackat, how's it that people like me make it expensive?So am I suppose to race with a piece of [email protected] car because someone else can't afford a good one?screw that I work for what i have. I do not set the prices you dipity-doo.I have been working full time for the lhs here for about 5 years, and I assure you the hobby is far from extinction, as a matter of fact we get more people who waist more $$ on purple aluminum crap than you can shake a stick at just because it looks cool.Also a lot of guys will buy a bigger engine just to be faster than thier buddies truck and they do not ever complain about a 50 dollar piece of purple metal that fits in your pocket.I think you should either get a 2cnd job to support your hobby like I did or shut the hell up........Its very simple if you have the money It's all good, If you not able to afford your hobby then I suggest you or whoever else is whining about prices..go get a job if you dont have one or go get a 2cnd job like a lot of us racers do so we can pay to play, I dont like working 2 jobs believe me but I do not have a choice.Everything costs money.....welcome to the real world.
your right dude
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