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-   -   Platinum Lipo (https://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/94778-platinum-lipo.html)

WorldCup2004 12-23-2005 02:40 AM

Platinum Lipo
 
Hello

I have seen that they are delivering them now, has anybody tried them already, I heard that you can make 16min+ with a 19 turn and 12min+ with modified motors.

I would like to have some feedback from people having tried them.

Thanks,

Nico

Rick Hohwart 12-23-2005 05:56 AM

Nico - Team Orion USA has just begun delivering them to customers beginning yesterday. Ryan Cavalieri tested a pack in his 2wd modified buggy with a 12 turn motor and ran over 18 minutes before beginning to slow.

Jilles Groskamp and Martin Hudy tested them at the Carpet World Cup last weekend. Jilles ran a 19 turn motor with a run time of 16 minutes. His fast lap was scored after the 10 minute mark.

Martin used a 12 turn motor and ran 12+ minutes.

You should be seeing some feedback from customers very shortly.

sosidge 12-23-2005 08:59 AM

Rick, do you know how their fast laps on Lipo compared to their fast laps with NiMH?

Rick Hohwart 12-23-2005 09:20 AM


Originally Posted by sosidge
Rick, do you know how their fast laps on Lipo compared to their fast laps with NiMH?

Hudy was about the same speed as his race laps. I think on such a small track, you can not take full advantage of the extra power available.

Jilles' fast lap was only .20 slower than the fastest modified lap times.

AdrianM 12-23-2005 09:51 AM

Teemu Leino tested them last week and ran 15 min at a full race pace with a 12 turn at the GP World Cup . He said the pack was faster and had more punch than regular batts.

EddieO 12-23-2005 11:31 AM

Aren't they 7.4 volts?

Later EddieO

mguebert69 12-23-2005 11:37 AM

Nominally they are 3.6v per cell.

Wild Cherry 12-23-2005 11:45 AM

G ...
These PLATINUM`s have the nickle metals packs available......


OWNED ...... :nod:

AdrianM 12-23-2005 12:17 PM


Originally Posted by EddieO
Aren't they 7.4 volts?

Later EddieO

Yup but what does that really mean? Are the 7.2v nominal 1400SCR packs that I ran in 1985 really the same as the 7.2v nominal IB3800's today....nope.

In the grand scheme of things the 0.2v increase is insignificant. The really big deal is how much lower the IR of the LiPo's are and how much more capacity they have.

MrUnlimited 12-23-2005 04:58 PM

I have my doubts on these new LIPO's. First the huge price. At $139,99 at Tower Hobbies you can buy 2 good quality matched packs which you can use again quickly after they're cooled won and discharged. 3600 & 3800mah can be be charged at 6amp while the Lipo's should be charged at a much lower rate which takes too long in my opinion for a single run. With the fast technology among nimh's I expect we are running up to 5amp cells at the end of 2006. I ran 1200scr for about 20yrs ago (with 21turn mod motors) 20 yrs later we're running three times more capacity batteries with low turn motors as 7turns.

L.Fairtrace 12-23-2005 05:08 PM

How hot was that 19turn after 15 minutes. :ha:

PDI 12-23-2005 05:16 PM


Originally Posted by MrUnlimited
I have my doubts on these new LIPO's. First the huge price. At $139,99 at Tower Hobbies you can buy 2 good quality matched packs which you can use again quickly after they're cooled won and discharged. 3600 & 3800mah can be be charged at 6amp while the Lipo's should be charged at a much lower rate which takes too long in my opinion for a single run. With the fast technology among nimh's I expect we are running up to 5amp cells at the end of 2006. I ran 1200scr for about 20yrs ago (with 21turn mod motors) 20 yrs later we're running three times more capacity batteries with low turn motors as 7turns.

Most Lipo's fast charge at 10amps and only take 15-20 min. if well drained. You can run a 5 min race and only have to wait 10-12 min for 90% or 20-30 for them to top off. With no worry about discharge or other needed accessories they are not bad at all.

Rick Hohwart 12-23-2005 05:21 PM


Originally Posted by MrUnlimited
I have my doubts on these new LIPO's. First the huge price. At $139,99 at Tower Hobbies you can buy 2 good quality matched packs which you can use again quickly after they're cooled won and discharged. 3600 & 3800mah can be be charged at 6amp while the Lipo's should be charged at a much lower rate which takes too long in my opinion for a single run. With the fast technology among nimh's I expect we are running up to 5amp cells at the end of 2006. I ran 1200scr for about 20yrs ago (with 21turn mod motors) 20 yrs later we're running three times more capacity batteries with low turn motors as 7turns.

Therer is a difference between the types of batteries that can never be changed. Even if the capacity of a NiMH pack equals that of a LiPo pack, performance will still be inferior.

We have charged the Platinum pack at 10 amps and have seen no ill effects.

Rick Hohwart 12-23-2005 05:23 PM


Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace
How hot was that 19turn after 15 minutes. :ha:

Good question! No hotter than a 19turn after 5 minutes. There is some myth that motors will get hotter and hotter as they continue to run when in reality they will reach a certain temperature and maintain it as long as the load is not continually increasing.

BATT_MAN 12-23-2005 05:35 PM


Originally Posted by AdrianM
Yup but what does that really mean? Are the 7.2v nominal 1400SCR packs that I ran in 1985 really the same as the 7.2v nominal IB3800's today....nope.

In the grand scheme of things the 0.2v increase is insignificant. The really big deal is how much lower the IR of the LiPo's are and how much more capacity they have.


Adrian - So 200mv (0.2 volts) are insignificant...
I am glad to hear that because there are people in this industry that claim that 0.005v (5 millivolts) make a difference and sell battery packs rated by VOLTAGE NUMBERS.

THANKS FOR PROVING THIS as AXXIS RACING has been saying this all along.
VOLTAGE IS INSIGNIFICANT... POWER DEFINES A BATTERY. (IR,TRANSIENT RESPONSE, and other values define a GREAT battery, not a few millivolts)

There are many factors that make a battery PERFORM, and numbers alone do not dictate that. Anyone that is an experienced engineer that does ongoing battery research knows that. Testing batteries under different parameters as Axxis Racing does helps us find the best performing batteries. The industry standard equipment used to test and match batteries can not perform ANY OF THESE TESTS.

I am not saying thatthey are doing the WRONG things, I just say that there are much better ways to test, enhance, and match batteries.


I have been saying that all along (over 18 years...the voltage issue). Yet, the INDUSTRY keeps matching batteries by voltage and charging much more for an extra millivolt. (A 1.199 v a 1.200) Yet, you can have cellswith LOWER Vavg that will perform much better, yet people ignore them and go for the one with the highest voltage...even if its 1 mv. :lol:

Like you said, IT IS INSIGNIFICANT... and you are talking about 200mv (0.200) not just a few millivolts :) and you are CORRECT!

ALL motors have a Kv constant, right?
So what does that mean? Well, if you have a motor with a Kv of 3.5 (3500 RPM/volt) like a typical stock motor, that motor will turn 4095 (NO LOAD) rpms at 1.170 volts and 4200 rpms at 1.200...a difference of 30 millivolts (0.030volts) and a total NO LOAD RPM INCREASE OF ONLY 105 rpms. That is INSIGNIFICANT because once that motor is under load, you will nort notice ant difference whatsoever.


People have jumped at me when I have said that millivolts are insignificant, and I have been told that I do not know what I am talking about and that I use NON STANDARD equipment to test and match batteries. Yet, the Axxis IB3800 VoltaXX HES Enhanced batteries are proving themselves at tracks all over the country (and Internationally).

Anyway, THANKS FOR CLEARING THIS ISSUE.

I have been waiting from someone in the industry to tell the truth.


I know this thread is about the LiPo's, but I hasd to take the opportunity to reply to the voltage (or MINI VOLTAGE) issue.
LiPo's will also change the way we test and match, because you have to perform different tests to find the best LiPo's from any given batch. Vavg and runningtime alone WILL not work as well as other test procedures.


...and regarding motor temperature, Rick is correct, as long as the load does not increase there is no real reason for the temperature to increase.
However, if the operating temperature reaches a critical point because of poor gearing, long runs will overheat the motors as the IR (of the motor) will continue to increase, then temperature...and you end up getting into an infinite loop.


Isaac
Axxis Racing


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