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Old 04-10-2007, 11:28 PM   #1051
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Darkseid, The discharge data we all want to see was meant as a comparison between the lipos and nimh. I know track results is the most important but it would be interesting reference. I rarely ever discharge a full pack of nimh on my charger... I only bleed them off after a run then equalize. I've only have a few cycles (charge, use; not discharge with discharge) on my Orion 4800PE. Top end was better than nimh but they didn't feel as punchy. I played with gearing but still couldn't find the punch. It wasn't slow but not as punchy...

cvt01, thats a very interesting article to look it. Personally I find a lot of it pretty bogus. Did I mention before I'm an EE? Anyways; compare that to the amount of info Orion has on the 4800 and 3200. 1 page worth on both batteries; nothing extensive but nothing bogus and I have both already!

Thanks Mr. Black! The only solution I can see is a shorter battery if these guys want to run the tub. The 4800PE is a TIGHT fit even 0.5mm more is too much. However only the 3200 is legal in GT1 in Canada. The flat carbon graphite (not real CF) chassis will hold the 3200 TIGHTLY but that chassis SUCKS! What do those guys run for batteries in their TA04's? side by side IB's don't fit.
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Old 04-11-2007, 07:14 AM   #1052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlack
2 x packs yet to be revealed
I see it! Can't wait. My car has lead comin' out the wazoo.
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Old 04-11-2007, 07:32 AM   #1053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlack
We do not race dischargers so we do not base our R&D for our packs on linear discharge as it is not the best test of a pack.
This amuses me... Orion don't race dischargers for LiPo, but are happy to grade their NiMH packs according to discharge performance.

The logical conclusion then is that...

You are wasting your money if you buy Orion's best spec IB4200 packs as the discharge doesn't mean anything.

Am I correct?

It also amuses me that these "maintenance-free", "charge-and-forget" LiPo packs should not be stored below 50% charge, and should not really be stored at 100% charge either for best life.

I'm all for the introduction of LiPo batteries, just find it fascinating that the longer they are on the market, the more like NiMH it becomes - some cells are better than others, and to make them last you need a particular care routine.
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Old 04-11-2007, 08:08 AM   #1054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sosidge
I'm all for the introduction of LiPo batteries, just find it fascinating that the longer they are on the market, the more like NiMH it becomes - some cells are better than others, and to make them last you need a particular care routine.
According to the Orion documentation storing at 100% is just fine. I wouldn't exactly call storing your battery with a charge a "care routine".
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Old 04-11-2007, 08:30 AM   #1055
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From the first day (4800's), I have charged them, run them 5 or 6 minutes, repeak them, run them 5 or 6 minutes repeak them run them 5 or 6 minutes.
And at the end of the night after the last race of the night per pack, I just throw them in the case and forget about it until the next race day.
They are always stored a week at a time at about a 75 % charge, and my packs are literally perfect to the day I purchased them.
Now that is a routine I like.
I race once a week.

I guess poeple just want to feel they are buying the best possible voltage, for the best possible advantage on the track.
Slow motor syndrome.
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:41 AM   #1056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlamMan
I wouldn't exactly call storing your battery with a charge a "care routine".
Especially when you're talking about long-term storage.
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:50 AM   #1057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sosidge
This amuses me... Orion don't race dischargers for LiPo, but are happy to grade their NiMH packs according to discharge performance.
Presumably because they feel it takes more than a 30A discharge to rate a LiPo's performance. It's well-documented that you can predict how a NiMH will perform based on the numbers it returns in certain kinds of tests. This same methodology isn't effective for quantifying the performance of LiPo, so it's a case of comparing apples to oranges.

I get what you're trying to say, though. It does seem a little odd when you look at it superficially, but there's simply more to the story with LiPo than NiMH.
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:33 AM   #1058
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I dunno if that makes any sense......no batteries are equal, even LIPOs......I have tested the discharge of the Orion packs I have, no two are the same.....even when charged at the same temps and such. Each has a unique curve, along with different runtime, and IR......so while the numbers that end up getting printed on the packs may be a bit different.....they will still exist though......and the racers will use them.....consumers will buy them.....and cheapbatterypacks.com or whatever will sell unmatched ones that people will buy....

And wait till some battery geek figures out how the voodoo works.....

It's all just a matter of time.

Later EddieO
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:55 AM   #1059
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I don't mean that we won't be able to test them, even against each other, it's just not clear if using the same methodology that we do with NiMH will tell the whole story, which is what I think Mr. Black was getting at with his comment. I fully expect we'll find a way to test these batteries on the bench that will give us a good indication of its performance on the track, but I'm not convinced that using the standard 30A discharge is the way.

That said, I think it's a mistake to judge the merits of LiPo on how it compares to NiMH on the discharger or the track. I understand that this will mean something to racers at big events, and I expect the NiMH will remain strong in that crowd probably until weight limits are changed, but for just about everybody else, that first minute of a little extra voltage isn't really the point, and definitely doesn't justify the added headaches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
I dunno if that makes any sense......no batteries are equal, even LIPOs......I have tested the discharge of the Orion packs I have, no two are the same.....even when charged at the same temps and such. Each has a unique curve, along with different runtime, and IR......so while the numbers that end up getting printed on the packs may be a bit different.....they will still exist though......and the racers will use them.....consumers will buy them.....and cheapbatterypacks.com or whatever will sell unmatched ones that people will buy....

And wait till some battery geek figures out how the voodoo works.....

It's all just a matter of time.

Later EddieO
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:27 AM   #1060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEM
Darkseid, The discharge data we all want to see was meant as a comparison between the lipos and nimh. I know track results is the most important but it would be interesting reference. I rarely ever discharge a full pack of nimh on my charger... I only bleed them off after a run then equalize. I've only have a few cycles (charge, use; not discharge with discharge) on my Orion 4800PE. Top end was better than nimh but they didn't feel as punchy. I played with gearing but still couldn't find the punch. It wasn't slow but not as punchy...
Oh, okay. I can see why people would want the numbers if they're interested in doing performance comparisons. I guess I'm just coming from a different point of view.

I have no interest in comparing LiPo to NiMh in the performance arena. For a club racer like me, all the benefits that LiPo provides, makes even considering the 'possible' performance differences between the two types, laughable.

Same pack since Oct '05 is all the performance data that I need!
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:06 PM   #1061
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Charging a pack up 2 months previous to using it, decided to have a bash at the track, done approx 25 minutes of running before deciding to take a break and have a chat with someone, then another 10 minutes or so bash then packed up and went home.

Battery had not gone soft or recharged on the day.
Car: F103GT (Courage shell), 27T Stock, Foam tyres (Nitro Shoes).

That's my performance figures
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Old 04-11-2007, 01:58 PM   #1062
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How come the maxamps don't have the lil plug in that these do? I maxamps I have seen have deans connectors. What type of connections does the Platinum lipo use.
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Old 04-11-2007, 02:37 PM   #1063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silence360
How come the maxamps don't have the lil plug in that these do? I maxamps I have seen have deans connectors. What type of connections does the Platinum lipo use.
The Platinum pack it self has two Corally style plug ins directly on the pack itself. But the pack comes with a Tamiya style (Tamiya lead on one end/Corally leads on the other) to use with the pack.
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:03 PM   #1064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid
Oh, okay. I can see why people would want the numbers if they're interested in doing performance comparisons. I guess I'm just coming from a different point of view.

I have no interest in comparing LiPo to NiMh in the performance arena. For a club racer like me, all the benefits that LiPo provides, makes even considering the 'possible' performance differences between the two types, laughable.

Same pack since Oct '05 is all the performance data that I need!
I hear that, the practice and setup knowledge I have gained is phenomenal form the extra time I gained by not bothering with Nimh batteries.
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Old 04-12-2007, 09:28 AM   #1065
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Does anyone have the Platinum batts in stock?
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