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Old 06-05-2006, 05:19 AM   #691
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I would be asking for my money back. Heck after dropping that kind of coin on cells that are supposed to be the future of rc why should u beta test them at your expence?

Spectrum has the future of radios and they recalled and did repairs for free on there gear that messed up.....
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Old 06-05-2006, 08:20 AM   #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadn1
Rick,
Can you explain how the Scorpion charger works with the orion pack. I know there is an adaptor that need to be purchased, but where does the 3rd wire (white) go. Also, has it been tested that the packs can safely be charged at the 10amp max rate of the scorpion charger like the scorpion packs?
I am not exactly sure because we do not have the adapter to test. But O imagine it is a plug and plya type thing. We have charged the packs at 10 amps, but we suggest using no more than 1C (4.8 amps) as this is the mnaufacturer's recommendation.
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Old 06-05-2006, 08:20 AM   #693
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From what I understand ith the Orion Lipo is that it will give the same perfaormance charged at 1A than it does at the maximum recommended of 4.8A, the only benefit of charging at a higher amperage was that it charged up faster.
Also the Lipo gets cooler as it is charged, so if yours was warm then the damaged was done there and it took overnite to force its way out of the safety cell (which sounds like it saved it from exploding).
I also have seen this guy who swears blind that his NiMh cells must be charged at 10A, we had to laugh when the pack being charged in the boot of his 3 week old BMW M3 exploded with enough force to take out his windshield after going through the rear passenger seat (we no like loudmouths like him).
Read the instructions, is says 1C max, that's 4.8A max.

As for the Spektrum recall. when was this? first I've heard of it, we have to send them away if they go faulty and the postage ain't cheap.
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Old 06-05-2006, 08:29 AM   #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbull
If you read back a bit you will see that people have been charging LIPOs at 6, 8 and 10 amps with great results.

It's the usual question of charging at a higher amp rate gives more power and naturally that's what we all stive for.

What I can't understand is why the pack didn't burst out of the case when it was being charged. I repeat, I charged it on the Orion Advantage in LIPO mode. It was all right. It cut off as it should do, and it was warm - about the same temp as a Nicad or Nimh.

It was only the following morning when I got back into the shop that I found it had burst out of it's case.

I'm not asking for my money back or anything. I would simply like an explanation so that it does not happen again.

If the Haras of this world can charge their Lipos at 10 amps, why can't we. Surely they are running the same cells you and I can buy. Or are they!
You are welcome to send the battery back to Team Orion. It COULD be defective. We have received approximately 10 returns (out of 3000+ packs)with failures of this type. In all cases, user error was to blame. Usually the problem was charging in the wrong mode (NiMH rather than LiPo). One charged using a non-LiPo charger.

The temerature seems high. They should not get as hot as a NiMH at the time of peak. Nor should they be as hot as NiMH after use.

Did you charge the battery, unhook it and leave it alone? Was it in a car, plugged in? Or...?

Was this the first charge for this battery? Was this the first LiPo charge with the charger?
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Old 06-05-2006, 09:04 AM   #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadn1
Rick,
Can you explain how the Scorpion charger works with the orion pack. I know there is an adaptor that need to be purchased, but where does the 3rd wire (white) go. Also, has it been tested that the packs can safely be charged at the 10amp max rate of the scorpion charger like the scorpion packs?
The third wire goes to the balancing port on the underside of the pack. I wired up a similar adapter so I could use a Hyperion balancer on my Orion LiPo packs.
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Old 06-05-2006, 12:29 PM   #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
You are welcome to send the battery back to Team Orion. It COULD be defective. We have received approximately 10 returns (out of 3000+ packs)with failures of this type. In all cases, user error was to blame. Usually the problem was charging in the wrong mode (NiMH rather than LiPo). One charged using a non-LiPo charger.

The temerature seems high. They should not get as hot as a NiMH at the time of peak. Nor should they be as hot as NiMH after use.

Did you charge the battery, unhook it and leave it alone? Was it in a car, plugged in? Or...?

Was this the first charge for this battery? Was this the first LiPo charge with the charger?
To answer your questions Rick, Yes I charged it, unhooked it and left it overnight. It looked OK when I left it but had burst it's case when I got to the shop in the morning. It was not in a car but on the bench, and not plugged to anything.

This was it's first charge and the first LIPO charged with one from a new stock of Orion Advantage chargers I had just received to sell.

I like to run things myself before offering to customers so I know what I'm talking about when a customer asks. The charger charges Nimh packs OK. I have not risked using it again on another new LIPO.

Like I said, I charged at 6 amps. Should they take this or shouldn't they. I know the instructions say up to 4 amps but other knowledgeable folk have assured me that they can be charged at up to 10 amps without problems.

Perhaps it was a duff pack, or could it be the charger?
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Old 06-05-2006, 12:41 PM   #697
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To me, this stuff seems no different than what we have all seen from previous battery technology and R/C electronics in general.

We have all HEARD of somebody or somebody's friend or some team driver charging batteries at some insane amperage, or running a motor at some insane gearing or something like that.

As for me, those all make great stories to listen to in the pits or read about on the boards, but I prefer to follow the directions. That way, if something does go wrong, I can confidently say, "I did everything I was supposed to and this item failed".

If people's local track has ANY kind of decent turn out, 4.8a is more than enough to get the pack charged before your next race. Not that it has to be fully charged before the race anyway.

Besides that, the packs are pumping out a full 7.4v, what the heck are people trying to get by charging them at such high amps? I mean damn, sometimes its just best to be happy with what we have instead of always trying to get a little more out of an item.

I could care less what somebody's cousin's...brother's.....team driver....does. If I'm charging this $140 pack, I'm following the instructions!
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Old 06-05-2006, 01:04 PM   #698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbull
To answer your questions Rick, Yes I charged it, unhooked it and left it overnight. It looked OK when I left it but had burst it's case when I got to the shop in the morning. It was not in a car but on the bench, and not plugged to anything.

This was it's first charge and the first LIPO charged with one from a new stock of Orion Advantage chargers I had just received to sell.

I like to run things myself before offering to customers so I know what I'm talking about when a customer asks. The charger charges Nimh packs OK. I have not risked using it again on another new LIPO.

Like I said, I charged at 6 amps. Should they take this or shouldn't they. I know the instructions say up to 4 amps but other knowledgeable folk have assured me that they can be charged at up to 10 amps without problems.

Perhaps it was a duff pack, or could it be the charger?
The battery can take 6 amps as easily as a NiMH can take 10. It will charge and work. But with LiPo the only benefit is that the battery will reach full capacity in less time. The drawback is that it will not last as long.

4.8 Amps is the maximum we can recommend without it affecting the longevity of the battery. FYI, a GP4300 cell's shrink says to charge 16 hours at 410 mAh. How many people do that?

The charger or battery could be the problem. Based on your description, my guess it is the charger.
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Old 06-06-2006, 02:43 AM   #699
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Thanks Rick.

I too have been pointing fingers at the charger to be honest.

Darkseid. The reason for charging at high amps is simply a question of time. We don't have much time between races compared to some of the big meetings abroad so we have to ensure that we can charge in the time we have available.

However, like I said, a person who Knows very much what he's saying, recommended I charge at over 6 amps.

Thanks all for the input.

Now can anybody tell me how I can get this pack back to shape so that it fits in it's case, or is it a throw away.
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Old 06-06-2006, 03:09 PM   #700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbull
Thanks Rick.

I too have been pointing fingers at the charger to be honest.

Darkseid. The reason for charging at high amps is simply a question of time. We don't have much time between races compared to some of the big meetings abroad so we have to ensure that we can charge in the time we have available.

However, like I said, a person who Knows very much what he's saying, recommended I charge at over 6 amps.

Thanks all for the input.

Now can anybody tell me how I can get this pack back to shape so that it fits in it's case, or is it a throw away.
I hear what your saying on the time issue. Just remember that it doesn't have to be at full capacity to perform at max power. Thats an important thing to remember. I have had a few occasions where I went all night and never peaked the battery before a race. But you would never know by the track performance.

As for getting it to fit again, I don't know if you'll be able to get it to fit again, but I wouldn't throw it away either. I think Rick said you could send it in to them, thats what I would do.

Good luck with it. And don't give up on LiPo yet...it is the future of racing and maybe even full sized cars.
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Old 06-06-2006, 03:38 PM   #701
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i have had the orion li-po for about 3 month`s using it twice a week
indoor racing & sunday`s outdoors in pratice time (UK scene a bit slow here to be legal ) but there are 3 outdoor tracks where i can use them ,which is not bad

charging !!!
got a prodigy II & duratrax `ICE
i do 4.8 amps it takes a good hour from empty to get to .5a charge with cap showing 4600+
i can charge a couple of day`s even a week before racing it & it goes like stink with out repeak

when i race inddors there is a 20-30 min tunaround in the heats ,after race just take off charge @ 4.8 a (charger does this automatically when you tell it the capacity,then charge drops as cap comes up)

never get`s fully charged @ racing but it doesn`t show on track ,i`ve raced round then the cars suddenly goes real slow like a matched pack of cells dumping , just goes straight on charge no probs

i`ve heard these story`s of 10 amp charge & wot not , but can`t see the point coz you don`t need full pk to race with

other then that no prob`s atall with the LI-PO from peak

just seen the new pk of kokam LI-PO cells , 42 cells,52Volt & 9800 cap & capable of 200a contstant current
get this in the car (bit to big)
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:13 PM   #702
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Question for all you Orion/Peak LiPo owners. I understand that the Orion LiPo has the Kokam logo and name on the side of the battery. I was wondering if the Peak version has the same labeling as well. Thanks guys.
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:50 AM   #703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rc_bam226
Question for all you Orion/Peak LiPo owners. I understand that the Orion LiPo has the Kokam logo and name on the side of the battery. I was wondering if the Peak version has the same labeling as well. Thanks guys.
yes they are as one
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Old 06-08-2006, 06:07 AM   #704
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I found in Germany the Peak Lipo for EUro 140.00

http://www.msmodellbau.de/assets/s2d...934/index.html

Has anyone found a cheaper shop ?
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Old 06-11-2006, 05:55 PM   #705
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Used the Orion Lipo yesterday. Absolutely awesome. We ran oval with touring cars. It was just a fun class at our state oval series race. The track was short with pretty tight corners. Lots of hard acceleration off the turns with an eight turn motor. I charged the battery six times throughout the day and it performed consistently all day. I even had my best laps on the last run of the day. Cant wait for the battery to be accepted in main stream racing events.

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